Steve Butters Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 there was no crime before the invention of guns. none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat0403 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Goddammit, I have heard this all way too much. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, hence the right to self defense. That is what i have to say about that.Second, go read the Federalist Papers if you want to know about the 2nd amendment, it was less about the British or any other country than it was about controlling and having the means to control our Government. Read John Locke, Ben Franklin, Etc, these are all still relevant as much as people want to say they are not in this day in age. I truly and honestly want to believe that it is not necessary to have the means to defend yourself, but it is. The people that keep talking about banning firearms and limiting them and monitoring them closely are the same people that were against the Patriot Act saying that it was an invasion of privacy and rights. Personally I was for the act back in the day to feel more secure, but I was wrong. Fear is the most powerful tool anyone can wield, soon enough people will be trading their rights and privacy "for the better good" and the will of the fearful and ignorant masses and the government. The 2nd Amendment is to keep Jefferson's quote a reality "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleaveTheGreat Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 deciding whether or not we "should" is fine. We could argue over the merits of removing guns from a peaceful society all day long... It seemed more in your post that you were saying "it's too hard, we could never get that done, it would be a big mess"IF the majority of people wanted it then yes it could probably be done. However this is not the case. And yes it would be a big mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I posted that in another thread. When i get to my desktop i'll post a link.Cliffs: The higher US gun homicide rate is balanced out but the higher UK non-gun homicide rate.Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleaveTheGreat Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I posted that in another thread. When i get to my desktop i'll post a link.Cliffs: The higher US gun homicide rate is balanced out but the higher UK non-gun homicide rate.Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2I thought I remembered something like that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 The 2nd Amendment is to keep Jefferson's quote a reality "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty"If you believe the government fears your gun, you either severely overestimate your gun, or you severely underestimate the US military...unless you've invested 700billion dollars/yr in research/deveopment and supplies, I think you probably don't have the means to protect yourself if the united states decides you are a threat to national security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleaveTheGreat Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 If you believe the government fears your gun, you either severely overestimate your gun, or you severely underestimate the US military...unless you've invested 700billion dollars/yr in research/deveopment and supplies, I think you probably don't have the means to protect yourself if the united states decides you are a threat to national security.This is true but do you want to live under a government that arbitrarily decides who is and isn't a threat to national security? Eviscerating the bill of rights is just one more step in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'm not speculating on the effects, nor am I supporting such an endeavor... I'm just saying that if it were to be done, it could be done fairly effectively if everyone cooperated. I'm usually on the side of personal liberty (as i am in this case), but I do see both sides of this issue.And this is where that idea fails. That is one hell of a hypothetical theory. Hypothetically if their were no banks, stores, etc, there would be no business's being robbed either. Do you see the point Im trying to get across? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 This thread makes baby jesus cry and only frustrates me due to some of the ignorance here. Hence /endMyParticipation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 This thread makes baby jesus cry and only frustrates me due to some of the ignorance here. Hence /endMyParticipation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 If you believe the government fears your gun, you either severely overestimate your gun, or you severely underestimate the US military...unless you've invested 700billion dollars/yr in research/deveopment and supplies, I think you probably don't have the means to protect yourself if the united states decides you are a threat to national security.Tell that to a bunch of cave dwelling herdsmen that have been doing a mighty fine jody the last ten years of pissing off our superior military and quite a few Russians before that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 one thing to also understand, while our military are members of the us military, they are also citizens outside of the military. if an order was given to turn on their own people, i bet there would be many large groups who would side with the citizens.i know the whole "group mentality" issue that would play a factor, which is why not every soldier would side with the people....but it only takes a few higher ups to make a big difference, and i know a lot of military people who dont always side with the president anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 one thing to also understand, while our military are members of the us military, they are also citizens outside of the military. if an order was given to turn on their own people, i bet there would be many large groups who would side with the citizens.i know the whole "group mentality" issue that would play a factor, which is why not every soldier would side with the people....but it only takes a few higher ups to make a big difference, and i know a lot of military people who dont always side with the president anywaysProblem is that it won't happen with "an order". It happens slowly.... bit by bit..... until you're there and you say "holy shit! How did we get here?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 one thing to also understand, while our military are members of the us military, they are also citizens outside of the military. if an order was given to turn on their own people, i bet there would be many large groups who would side with the citizens.i know the whole "group mentality" issue that would play a factor, which is why not every soldier would side with the people....but it only takes a few higher ups to make a big difference, and i know a lot of military people who dont always side with the president anywaysThere is a group out there called oath keepers. Its a pretty large organization comprised of service members both military and police that recognize they took an oath to. Protect this country from threats both foreign and DOMESTIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 There is a group out there called oath keepers. Its a pretty large organization comprised of service members both military and police that recognize they took an oath to. Protect this country from threats both foreign and DOMESTIC.yep, they will protect you Or you could put away the tin foil hats, realize your arms are utterly inept when compared to the training and equipment of a proper tactical team (let alone a full-on military force), and just be happy you're "protected" from the errant carjacker, or small time criminal.Your hometown militia is never going toe to toe with even a small country's military (like japan for example), let alone the largest military force on the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 this is getting absurdhttp://news.yahoo.com/3-arrested-separate-dark-knight-incidents-080930278.htmlIn Southern California, a man at a Sunday afternoon showing of the film was arrested after witnesses said he made threats and alluded to the Aurora shooting when the movie didn't start.Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies were called to a cinema complex in Norwalk after moviegoers said 52-year-old Clark Tabor shouted: "I should go off like in Colorado." They said he then asked: "Does anybody have a gun?"A security guard saw Tabor with a backpack on his knees in the second row, but deputies who searched the bag, the theater and its surrounding area did not find any weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangBruhY Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangBruhY Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 rockNot necessarily true on that last bit...young children have gotten a hold of guns and killed people without understanding why or how... they weren't necessarily bad people.you have to put some effort into killing someone with a rock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30109090/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/mom-kills-son-then-self-shooting-range/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30109090/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/mom-kills-son-then-self-shooting-range/you got there before me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This is true but do you want to live under a government that arbitrarily decides who is and isn't a threat to national security? newsflash: you already live under a government like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 This was the only one I saw but I have a hard time trusting anything that comes from wikipedia.you can always look at the bottom of the wikipedia pages for the citations, then you just look at the cited sources directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30109090/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/mom-kills-son-then-self-shooting-range/http://abcnews.go.com/US/missouri-couple-found-dead-alleged-shooting-range-murder/story?id=14464596#.UA6-daOZhQAhttp://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/02/11/bso-suspicious-death-may-be-linked-to-gun-range-suicide/http://www.kens5.com/news/BCSO-Person-shot-in-head-at-shooting-range-132552753.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLCLqvhCJkUhttp://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/07/robert-farago/murder-at-pennsylvania-gun-range/That's in 3 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 yep, they will protect you Or you could put away the tin foil hats, realize your arms are utterly inept when compared to the training and equipment of a proper tactical team (let alone a full-on military force), and just be happy you're "protected" from the errant carjacker, or small time criminal.Your hometown militia is never going toe to toe with even a small country's military (like japan for example), let alone the largest military force on the planet. You make me laugh at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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