Harley XR1200 V&H Indy Race on Speed

[Tpoppa]

Did anyone watch it? I've never seen so many crashes in a single race.

[RVTPilot]

Looked like a backwoods poker run. Bikes everywhere. But there were guys flying off all kinds of bikes at Indy this past weekend. Some of the GP guys didn't speak in high regard of the surface. But, like one of my ex-GFs, it's flat, wide, and easy to pass on.

[Disclaimer]

I should race that series, I know I'm good enough to crash a bike.

[Tpoppa]

The XR1200 race showed up on my DVR. I haven't seen any of the other Indy races yet.

I think half the field went down. Lot's of wiggling and tankslapping through corners, too. And racers who crash can't pick up their heavy 'race' bikes without help. Thanks Harley...make America proud

[Tpoppa]

I should race that series, I know I'm good enough to crash a bike.

If you stay in under 50mph and don't have a mechanical, you could score an AMA top 10 after all the crashers get out of your way.

[Disclaimer]

XR1200 series is no different than this:

except less cool.

[Coyote]

Did anyone watch it? I've never seen so many crashes in a single race.

Crashes? If they were really any good they'd have laid them down to avoid crashing...

[jblosser]

i bet the chains on their wallets were getting hung up on something and causing the accidents.

[Disclaimer]

Maybe all that oil on the racing surface?

[Tpoppa]

Maybe all that oil on the racing surface?

In all seriousness...that was one of the problems. That and all the shitty handling motorcycles. Some of them were dumping oil. In one camera shot, there were 5 or 6 bikes laying on the ground. Not a 6 bike wreck...6, one bike wrecks.

There were plenty of other non oil related crashes. It was red flagged after 5 laps.

http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/indy-ama-xr1200-wyman-wins-saturday

But at the end of Lap 4, things began to change. First, O'Hara crashed in Turn 16, allowing Wyman to move up to second place. Half a circuit later, all hell broke loose with Jacobsen going down hard in Turn 10. Moments later, Wyman also went down in the same spot, followed by several more riders.

"There was oil on the track," Wyman said. "P.J. had a few seconds on me and I saw him crash but just as I processed what had happened I went down. It happened that fast. I got up and raised my arms to signal the guys behind us but everyone was coming and it was just total chaos."

The race was quickly red-flagged and most of the riders went back to pit row, some on damaged machines. Only Jacobsen and Wyman were left out as their bikes required major repair and needed to be towed.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Tpoppa

[redkow97]

If you stay in under 50mph and don't have a mechanical, you could score an AMA top 10 after all the crashers get out of your way.

Still to be fast enough to make the qualifying cut.

[redkow97]

After looking at the finishing order, Aaron Borello was 22nd, and he is no slouch at the club level.

No way anyone could just play it safe and finish in the points, let alone the top 10.

[SirPsycho]

There were a few crashes during qualifying also. Looked like bowling for Harley's

[LINK]

Watching this reminded me of how capable my Speed Triple could be with a decent rider.

[CephasGT]

It's incredibly embarrassing to me that we bring that series to the Indy GP. Way to showcase our best, AMA...

[redkow97]

It's incredibly embarrassing to me that we bring that series to the Indy GP. Way to showcase our best, AMA...

That's not what it's about. The XR's are something different, and are actually very entertaining racing. the top 4-6 battle closely, and then there are a couple other packs further back in the field that also race pretty close.

Why would MotoGP want to promote a series that's essentially competing with theirs? While Daytona Sportbike and American Superbike aren't exactly the same as MotoGP and Moto2, they're the same displacement.

MotoGP was nice enough to allow the XR's a chance to race in front of more people than they'll ever see at an AMA event, and maybe help out the series.

[redkow97]

Watching this reminded me of how capable my Speed Triple could be with a decent rider.

a speed triple is MUCH more capable than any XR1200...

What's really embarrassing is that the leading XR riders will put down laps that are as fast or faster than I can do on a 600. At least at Mid-Ohio. At Indy, the epic straight might give a 600 more time to break away. Still, it's impressive what they do on those bikes.

I need to rent one from the Wymanns some day.

[Tpoppa]

MotoGP was nice enough to allow the XR's a chance to race in front of more people than they'll ever see at an AMA event, and maybe help out the series.

I am sure HD pushed for this to get their logo in front of a larger race crowd. The race itself was a disaster. It was like a Katana rally in Coshocton. I doubt this was the type of exposure that HD wanted.

This is the first XR1200 race I've seen. Maybe the others have been better.

[CephasGT]

That's not what it's about. The XR's are something different, and are actually very entertaining racing. the top 4-6 battle closely, and then there are a couple other packs further back in the field that also race pretty close.

Why would MotoGP want to promote a series that's essentially competing with theirs? While Daytona Sportbike and American Superbike aren't exactly the same as MotoGP and Moto2, they're the same displacement.

MotoGP was nice enough to allow the XR's a chance to race in front of more people than they'll ever see at an AMA event, and maybe help out the series.

Yeah, I don't buy it. While they are certainly something different, I don't think it's in a good way. They're the 2 wheeled equivalent of school bus racing, and I don't mean that as a slight in any way to the riders. The racing is good, but of course it is, it's a spec series.

I just think that on an international stage, trotting out these lumbering, slow, antiquated, 500+ pound oil-slinging Harleys to showcase American racing is incredibly embarrassing. If AMA wants to run a spec class and showcase it at Indy, they ought to do it with the EBR, or with one of the new electric superbikes being built here, or something that we, as a country and they, as a series, could be proud of. But instead, they're taking the check from HD/Vance and rolling this silliness around a place like Indianapolis.

Embarrassing.

[Tpoppa]

Yeah, I don't buy it. While they are certainly something different, I don't think it's in a good way. They're the 2 wheeled equivalent of school bus racing, and I don't mean that as a slight in any way to the riders. The racing is good, but of course it is, it's a spec series.

I just think that on an international stage, trotting out these lumbering, slow, antiquated, 500+ pound oil-slinging Harleys to showcase American racing is incredibly embarrassing. If AMA wants to run a spec class and showcase it at Indy, they ought to do it with the EBR, or with one of the new electric superbikes being built here, or something that we, as a country and they, as a series, could be proud of. But instead, they're taking the check from HD/Vance and rolling this silliness around a place like Indianapolis.

Embarrassing.

+1

An EBR spec series is an intersting idea. The rumor (actually it's probably as much fact as rumor), is that EBR has already built and assembled a production run of mass market priced 1190 motorcycles (delete carbon fiber, magnesium wheels, etc from the 1190RS). Supposedly, the announcemnt will come when the dealer network is revealed.

I doubt that EBR has the $$, support, or enough pull with the AMA to get it's own spec series. It's an interesting idea though.

I would love to see lap times of a race prepped SV650 compared to those XR1200s. I suspect an SV would destroy the XR field.

[Rjettman]

I think the big draw for the Harley riders is you can get a fully prepped race bike for around $15,000ish? What would an EBR bike cost?

[redkow97]

+1

An EBR spec series is an intersting idea. The rumor (actually it's probably as much fact as rumor), is that EBR has already built and assembled a production run of mass market priced 1190 motorcycles (delete carbon fiber, magnesium wheels, etc from the 1190RS). Supposedly, the announcemnt will come when the dealer network is revealed.

That is more than a rumor. The funding is secured, and Erik is taking the Buell into WSBK, which requires so many thousand street bikes sold. I think you'll notice that a lot of the carbon-fiber parts that are being deleted for the 'budget' (it's still $20k or so) model are parts that can be replaced or modified for WSBK competition.

I would love to see lap times of a race prepped SV650 compared to those XR1200s. I suspect an SV would destroy the XR field.

That IS an interesting idea... Or run them like a GT1/GT2 class in a car race. A privateer on an SV might actually have some really good battles with a pro on an XR1200 (which would of course be fun for the privateer, but a nightmare for the pro...)

I agree that the XR's are not an ideal race platform, but in my mind that is what makes it fun to watch. EX250's are hardly "ideal" race platforms, but they're still a LOT of fun to race for very little money. The spectacle of speed is gone for the spectators, but for the riders, and the spectators who have more of an appreciation for what they're doing out there, I think it's still entertaining.

Another point was made, I believe on the WERA board, that is worth keeping in mind for ALL racing: Slower bikes generally appear to corner at a higher speed because there is simply less braking involved. When you see a superbike doing 170 on the back straight at Mid-Ohio, the decline in speed down to 80 or 90 is a 50% decrease compared to what your eye has just seen. For an XR, they're topping out at maybe 120(?) or thereabouts, and only reducing corner speed by 10 mph compared to the bigger bikes. Percentage-wise, it's a smaller change, so they appear to be going faster through the turns.

This is probably more easily seen with a 1000 versus 250 two-stroke comparison, but there, I think the reduced weight of the 250 actually DOES increase the corner-speed by a few mph...