OK... Tint law... Thoughts?

[Moto-Brian]

OK, got pulled over for the fourth time since I have owned my van. The three times prior were actually from nice and pleasant officers. Twice, got pulled over and was told they had issues with vans running the interstates and wanted to do a quick check and used the tint as a reasoning to pull me over. Both were awesome officers. Told them I worked for KTM, hauled bikes in the back and wanted to deter criminals from trying to steal stuff while overnight, etc.

The third time, I was speeding and he was cool. Had me dead to rights and just casually mentioned I might wanna think about getting that tint looked at.

All three - no warnings. Just friendly suggestions...

Then, today about 2 miles from home, on RT30, two State Patrol Officers were chatting in the medium right before my exit. I start to pull off and see one coming in hot with lights on. I pulled over and was friendly because I knew it had to be for the tint as I wasn't speeding.

The second officer that was in the medium had also pulled up. Both were out and the one officer asked for the license and reg. Told me he was pulling me over for the windows. I gave him my card and told him why I had them tinted, etc. I also told him that I had been pulled over before and even had a State Patrol Officer friend that I had talked to about it.

He stated "Well, shame on those officers for not citing you for the tint. This is way too dark - I couldn't even see you when you passed by." I mentioned that each officer stated the tint was too dark, but was checking on my van to make sure I wasn't doing or hauling anything suspicious. I told the officer I even opened the van one time.

I told him this because I figured if I did the old ignorance to the law thing and stated I bought it this way and never knew it was illegal, etc, he'd see I was pulled over before even though I wasn't given a written warning, etc.

He pulled out his tint calibration tool and checked the window. The other officer was laughing and guessed 2%. The officer checked and it pulled 4% and they laughed and he said, "I should have said what I was thinking. I was thinking 4%!" Since they were laughing, I was thinking it was going well and I would get a warning. To which, I would have had the tint removed because I travel that part almost daily when traveling.

But, he states that he would be back with a citation. I then decided since he was going to be a dick, I asked him what about work and such? He stated that he appreciated my honesty, but I was illegal and he had to cite me. I then got a bit pissy and asked about the K9 cars, the Detectives and even non marked cars with tinted windows and why that was OK, but my reasoning wasn't good enough? He just walked away and went to his car.

Got a $115 ticket and shows ORC violation of code 4513.241.

So, I check the ORC and it doesn't say a freakin thing as to the tint allowance. Now, I know what the tint allowance is per the tint shop and the internet after Googling. But, here's my issue. If the ORC doesn't give an exact tint allowance, how do you know what is legal and illegal? Sure, we can all be smart and find the details, but if I violated a set ORC and that ORC doesn't have a detailed amount allowed, how can it be determined it is illegal?

All I am trying to do is get the fine reduced and make sure I do not get two points. I drive 35k miles plus a year and get an average of two tickets in that amount of miles. Many people average one ticket a year and only drive half that amount. So, I have two tickets in a 12 month time so far and don't need 2 more points from a stupid tint issue...

I talked to a few buddies who are officers in the HWP and the others are local officers in city beats down south. All laughed and said it was bullshit and that they would never cite someone for illegal tint. Hell, two friends run limo tint on their personal cars all the time. They said they use it as a reason to pull you over, but unless you're a total asshole, they would never cite anyone.

So, any ways around this? Any ways to take the ORC and use it to show it is non detailed and if there are random amounts that are used to determine illegal vs. legal, how can anyone know for sure what they have is legal or not? The tint place didn't mention the legality and I wasn't informed by the other three officers via a written warning. Just suggested...

Thoughts? Or, is it a non points issue and just pay the man and roll?

[ohiomike]

Leo's want to be able to see in a vehicle from the sounds of it. He stated he couldn't. To me that pretty much sums it up.

You got off how many times for the same offense, 3 times?, and got off every time. You knew you were illegal and did nothing about it and got approached a 4th time. Who's fault is that?

[JStump]

Leo's want to be able to see in a vehicle from the sounds of it. He stated he couldn't. To me that pretty much sums it up.

You got off how many times for the same offense, 3 times?, and got off every time. You knew you were illegal and did nothing about it and got approached a 4th time. Who's fault is that?

This, sounds like you knew it was coming eventually.

[QuikAccord]

Is this the tint on your two front windows? If not there is nothing illegal about it. Last time I saw, the stated 50% on all front windows and no restriction for the rears.

[CleaveTheGreat]

I have 15% tint on my windows and I've been pulled over 3 times in the last 4 years. The first 2 times were when I lived in Akron and the officers were very cool about it, just a warning no ticket. The third time was in Westerville about a month ago and the cop was a complete prick and ticketed me for it. I have no problem with them using the tint as reason to pull me over and see if I'm doing anything illegal but if I'm not, then leave me the fuck alone. I think tint laws are bullshit but whatever. I'll be interested to see how this turns out; I thought about fighting mine but I was lazy and just paid it. And btw, a tint violation is 2 points? I didn't think it was since it isn't a moving violation.

[QuikAccord]

Also I believe tint violation is non pointable offense.

[ohiomike]

Also I believe tint violation is non pointable offense.

Yep, probably an equip violation of some sort.

If I was Leo I sure would want to be able to see in a vehicle's window.Nothing like walking up beside a vehicle for whatever reason only to find yourself on the wrong end of a gun.

[Mojoe]

Window tint and no front plate are the same problem waiting to happen. You know it's going to get you pulled over. You just have to own it. To me, I know that I if I get hit for no front plate or my tint, that's just what it cost for me to have things the way I want. Some times you have to pay, sometimes you don't.

If there was a tax; say $100 a year and an additional school for higher speed driving, that would allow me to drive 80mph on the highway and included no front plate and some tint options, I'd pay it.

[NinjaNick]

State troopers are dicks no matter what they want. Big egos on them for some reason. They are heartless bastards too.

I do hate tinted windows though because you can't see who is in the car. Its like wearing sun glasses when you talk to someone. If we talk, I want to see your eyes. It's respectful.

Edited September 3, 2012 by NinjaNick

[ohiomike]

State troopers are dicks no matter what they want. Big egos on them for some reason. They are heartless bastards too.

Why? Because they give out tickets when the law is broken? That's easy to remedy-Obey the law and eliminate getting pulled over and giving them a chance to be a dick to you.

[NinjaNick]

I don't have any tickets and haven't been pulled over by a trooper ever. I just know their personalities.

I also added to my post as well up above.

[jporter12]

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/4501-41-03

It looks like he should have used a different ORC section. I got this right from the OSHP website: http://statepatrol.ohio.gov/FAQ.stm#equipment

Window tint is an equipment violation, and should not result in points on your record.

I have 15-20% on my car and have never been stopped for it. Maybe I'm just lucky?

[jblosser]

1) fix it, you know it's illegal

2) fight the ticket. the section cited does not apply. Proper section, for reference, is 4501-41-03 (A)(3)

3) maybe get a curtain to hang behind the front seats when you're parked to obscure what's in the back.

Edit **typing while :superporter: was typing

edit #2: law referenced above is authorized by, and amplifies the section cited on your ticket. Sorry, no fighting allowed...

Edited September 3, 2012 by jblosser

[TSB67]

You can't have limo tint on your front windows. Pay it or peel it. No stories necessary.

[Moto-Brian]

Leo's want to be able to see in a vehicle from the sounds of it. He stated he couldn't. To me that pretty much sums it up.

You got off how many times for the same offense, 3 times?, and got off every time. You knew you were illegal and did nothing about it and got approached a 4th time. Who's fault is that?

Listen, I respect officers. Like I stated, I have several who are friends. Each told me that they'd never ticket a driver for such an offense as they too think it is bullshit. I roll my windows down immediately so the officer can see me clearly. Had I pulled over, kept the window up until he got up beside me? Sure, I would understand that idea.

Tint laws are really ignorant. I mean, you can spray paint the rear and side glass black and have zero visibility. I could slide my seat all the way back and even with clear windows up front, you'd never see me. Or even the posse of gun toting criminals housed in the back of the van...

Point is that I was pulled over and NEVER given a written warning. If I ever got a written warning, I would have respected that and had the tint pulled.

But, this guy never did the warning and went straight to the ticket.

I understand it is a law. I understand that driving 56 MPH is technically illegal also. But the point is that most (Even in this case) officers aren't going to cite me over tint. I respect them if they want to see what is in the back, I respect that if they want me to be educated in the law and that they recommend me to get it fixed, etc. But, it is like that 56 MPH. I can get pulled over for speeding as a reason to check on my vehicle and do a once over to make sure I am not suspicious. I understand all of that.

But, to see HWP sitting in a medium, chatting to each other and simply looking for a reason to write a ticket? Seems a bit like a waste of government funding, no? I mean, the idea for officers patrolling the freeways and enforcing even speeding is to protect the citizens and to prevent accidents. On their own site, they claim that the reason they patrol and write tickets are explained as:

Is traffic enforcement just another way to raise revenue?

No. The mission of the Patrol is to reduce crashes, deaths, and injuries on the roadways of Ohio. Because of a policy of firm but fair enforcement, Ohio is consistently among the safest of the most populous states.

Ohio State Highway Patrol operations are funded primarily through license plates and driver license fees, so the Patrol receives no benefit from traffic fine money. While the state of Ohio receives some fine money, the majority is retained by the municipality and/or county in which the offense occurred.

Why don’t troopers concentrate on "serious" crimes instead of traffic offenses?

Crime-fighting is designed to protect citizens from threats to life, limb, and property. Traffic crashes, though largely preventable, claim twice as many lives each year as murders. In America in 1996, a person was murdered (on the average) every 27 minutes, while a life was lost in a traffic crash every 13 minutes. And while there was an aggravated assault every 31 seconds, there was also a crash-related injury every nine seconds.

Nobody expects to die in a traffic crash, but thousands do each year. Since traffic crashes can be (and are) prevented by fair and firm traffic enforcement, the enforcement of these laws has a significant effect upon society.

Why enforce speed?

Excessive speed is consistently a leading contributing factor in serious crashes. Since the Patrol's primary mission is to reduce crashes and the accompanying death and injuries, speed enforcement is imperative.

Basically, I WANT them to do these things. I even want them to pull my van over if they think it is suspicious. I want them to do that. But, to ticket for something as trivial as window tint? Wow... They missed the no front license plate. They could have technically measured my vehicle height to see if it was illegal according to Ohio laws. They could have clocked me at 72 MPH which I was traveling, but they were chatting like school girls and saw the tint and saw a chance to write a ticket. Simple as that. Once they saw it was a harmless guy and his 2 year old, they were laughing it up and betting on the %. Again, if it is that laid back and obviously not that serious, why write a ticket? Why not just write a warning?

It just is as simple as some officers are pricks and some are not. This guy being a prick wants me to take it to court and say that the ORC he wrote me up for has zero details to support why he pulled me over.

Now, if the ORC 4501-41-03 is basically a code that falls under the ORC he wrote me up for, I will pay the fine and walk away and figure it is as stated above, a tax to have things the way I want it.

But, these assholes are on a freeway I travel a ton on. He will be looking for my van (easy to spot) and simply give me shit everytime. Then again, if I go to court and fight it, it will make him pissed and he will hammer me the next time also... Of course, if he writes it up wrong again, I will hit it up again and do it all over...

I understand laws. I get them. But, this is silly. This is a deal like a broken tail light and instead of letting the driver know that the safety aspect of not having it fixed right is why he wanted to pull you over and giving a simple warning to get it fixed, he gives a $100 fine to the guy...

Patrol Officers are there to protect and serve. Not sure where this falls, but his approach is shit.

[Moto-Brian]

1) fix it, you know it's illegal

2) fight the ticket. the section cited does not apply. Proper section, for reference, is 4501-41-03 (A)(3)

3) maybe get a curtain to hang behind the front seats when you're parked to obscure what's in the back.

Edit **typing while :superporter: was typing

edit #2: law referenced above is authorized by, and amplifies the section cited on your ticket. Sorry, no fighting allowed...

Gotcha. That's what I figured once I read it. Buddy told me to go to the eye doctor and get checked against light sensitivity and see if I can get him to write that I am sensitive to brighter light...

[Scruit]

The thing that makes an officer a "dick" or a "cool guy" is not whether he tickets you or not. It's his attitude, demeanor and professionalism while he is interacting with you.

I've had a ticket from a cool cop and a warning from a complete dick.

[Hoblick]

Its illegal, get over it, pay your fines and move on.

Ohio window tint laws are retarded. If you want dark windows your gonna end up paying for it.

You said you googled it and found the legal darkness. Your darker than the legal limit, so why are you even surprised?

[Moto-Brian]

The thing that makes an officer a "dick" or a "cool guy" is not whether he tickets you or not. It's his attitude, demeanor and professionalism while he is interacting with you.

I've had a ticket from a cool cop and a warning from a complete dick.

Exactly. I got a ticket for speeding as I mentioned above. Guy was super cool and super friendly. Speeding is something I understand getting a ticket for. Window tint? It's like getting a ticket for jaywalking on a street that had zero cars on the road. It just doesn't makes sense.

[Moto-Brian]

Its illegal, get over it, pay your fines and move on.

Ohio window tint laws are retarded. If you want dark windows your gonna end up paying for it.

You said you googled it and found the legal darkness. Your darker than the legal limit, so why are you even surprised?

I'm not surprised at all. Just wanted to see if it was a point violation, what options i had, etc. I just wanted to see if there was ANY room to plead my case with the work aspect which is totally legit.

I will work on the curtain aspect and see if I can assemble something like that to secure the bikes visually. I Googled the darkness, but when I looked at the ORC, it stated nothing in regards to the legal limit.

Dunno. Just wanted to ask...

[2talltim]

Gotcha. That's what I figured once I read it. Buddy told me to go to the eye doctor and get checked against light sensitivity and see if I can get him to write that I am sensitive to brighter light...

That dont work anymore, I had one back in the day and a cop took it saying it wasn't legal because it wasn't a court order afidavid from a judge

[2talltim]

Cops in mount vernon used to be bad about pulling you over for this, but I've had it on my cars for 6 months now with no problems,amd my wife works in westerville

[Moto-Brian]

Cops in mount vernon used to be bad about pulling you over for this, but I've had it on my cars for 6 months now with no problems,amd my wife works in westerville

Yeah, I drive in four different states, pass by State Patrols, City Officers, Sheriffs, etc. This is the only guy with a hard on to give me a ticket... It's Labor Day Weekend so, I expect it. But again, when the guy says "Shame on the other Patrolmen..." I knew I was in for fun. Mr. By the Book was standing outside my window...

I be honest with the guy, friendly, explain why, etc. He doesn't take any of that shit into account. I should have acted like I just bought it and had zero idea it was a bad thing... Dunno. That's what I get for being honest, I guess...

[Moto-Brian]

How about this question... Can anyone tell me if the $115 is the norm or if it was higher than typical? I am not going to fight it, I guess from talking to friends and what you all have mentioned. But, I also don't want to pay at the high end of the spectrum because I got short with the guy once he decided to cite me.

I suppose I should have kept quiet and maybe he would have cited me for something else that was cheaper or something... Dunno... $115 seems a little high. I think my dad paid something like $75 last year...

[Hoblick]

Depends.. I remember getting tickets for $60 up to $125.

So I don't know if there is a norm