More LEOs?

[Howabusa]

Maybe it is just where I have been lately but, I swear I'm seeing a lot more cops in my daily travels. Anybody else notice this?

[RHill]

went down 77 to Akron on Thursday, never seen as many cops in such a short period of time. It was constant sightings from Cleveland to Akron and back. If I was on the bike, I would have had at least one ticket on that trip.

[baptizo]

I spend most of my week in Cleveland and Akron/Canton but I can't readily say I've seen anymore LEO's than usual.

Heck, even the typical speed traps haven't been around for a couple of weeks now on Hwy. 8, I-77, and I-71.

[Tpoppa]

Depts are increasing revenue while sidestepping those pesky voters that are supposed to approve such increases.

you know, public servants are supposed to serve the public and all that stuff

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Depts are increasing revenue while sidestepping those pesky voters that are supposed to approve such increases.

you know, public servants are supposed to serve the public and all that stuff

you do know the depts only get like 2% of a ticket right? If the Dep has to show up for court it cost them 1500% more then that 2% they get.

[jester3681]

To answer the original question, I've seen a lot more recently, yes. But we also have a shit ton of construction down here in central Ohio, so I think they're patrolling more here out of respect for the safety of the workers.

[serpentracer]

plus obama and romney were in ohio this week.

[Tpoppa]

you do know the depts only get like 2% of a ticket right? If the Dep has to show up for court it cost them 1500% more then that 2% they get.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/25/2599.asp

Increased revenue under the guise of safety.

[Unk Greg]

New resident statie here...been decades since we had a live in patrol guy.

[RSparky]

i've seen a lot more on 675. usually 2+, sometimes 4-5 on my 15 mile trek from centerville to fairborn. ridiculous.

[Strictly Street]

UM, Obama and his fund raising tours of Ohio?

Always brings out the overtime for the LEO's.

[MeefZah]

Depts are increasing revenue while sidestepping those pesky voters that are supposed to approve such increases.

you know, public servants are supposed to serve the public and all that stuff

Let's see, I stop 4+ people a night and only issue citations for the more blatently reckless violations, crashes, DUS, and DUI. General speeds, stop signs, stuff that I give a pass on unless the person is a scroaty scroatbag or the DUS / DUI thing comes into play.

If I then write a ticket under state code, the city gets no revenue. If the person then fights that ticket, the city actually loses money because they pay me to go to court, and pay the municpal prosecutor to prosecute the case.

If I write a ticket under city code, and the person pays the ticket, the city gets $13. If the person then fights the ticket, again, the city loses money by having to pay me and the prosecutor.

So yeah, us fucking cops are out there cracking out the tickets to bolster our city's revenue.

I will grant you that communities which use a "mayors court" do see more revenue per ticket, but it's still a small amount and really is more of a "break even" proposition.

[jblosser]

Drove from Westerville to the Mittal plant in Cleveland and back yesterday, saw all of three marked cars the entire 270 miles...

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Let's see, I stop 4+ people a night and only issue citations for the more blatently reckless violations, crashes, DUS, and DUI. General speeds, stop signs, stuff that I give a pass on unless the person is a scroaty scroatbag or the DUS / DUI thing comes into play.

If I then write a ticket under state code, the city gets no revenue. If the person then fights that ticket, the city actually loses money because they pay me to go to court, and pay the municpal prosecutor to prosecute the case.

If I write a ticket under city code, and the person pays the ticket, the city gets $13. If the person then fights the ticket, again, the city loses money by having to pay me and the prosecutor.

So yeah, us fucking cops are out there cracking out the tickets to bolster our city's revenue.

I will grant you that communities which use a "mayors court" do see more revenue per ticket, but it's still a small amount and really is more of a "break even" proposition.

I tried... I got newpapered.

[ohiomike]

Let's see, I stop 4+ people a night and only issue citations for the more blatently reckless violations, crashes, DUS, and DUI. General speeds, stop signs, stuff that I give a pass on unless the person is a scroaty scroatbag or the DUS / DUI thing comes into play.

If I then write a ticket under state code, the city gets no revenue. If the person then fights that ticket, the city actually loses money because they pay me to go to court, and pay the municpal prosecutor to prosecute the case.

If I write a ticket under city code, and the person pays the ticket, the city gets $13. If the person then fights the ticket, again, the city loses money by having to pay me and the prosecutor.

So yeah, us fucking cops are out there cracking out the tickets to bolster our city's revenue.

I will grant you that communities which use a "mayors court" do see more revenue per ticket, but it's still a small amount and really is more of a "break even" proposition.

So may this explains why its not uncommon to see people with equipment violations (lights not working), or non use of turn signals, things like, being overlooked/ignored by Leos. I have seen a Leo right behind someone with rear lights out, or see them turn right in front of a Leo without using their signals, and nothing is done about it. I know you all are overworked, but it seems these things being ignored only add up to real problems later, accidents and such. Traffic on 270 at rush hours is unreal, but really needs more traffic control. 3 to 4 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic running at 75 mph while drivers text, lane cutting....really needs some control, more tickets or worse. I can only imagine how difficult this would be....maybe using an eye in the sky?, or it is better to just let em run and catch problems when they become twisted pieces of metal?

Not that I am pointing fingers at you, but doesn't this all add to the chaos?

[Tpoppa]

I tried... I got newpapered.

When other revenues go down, ticket revenue goes up. I'm not saying this is across the board for every LEO or even every dept. But it's a pretty obvious trend. It was acknowledged by the Michigan police cheif in the article I posted, probably to the dismay of lots of other departments.

There lots of articles on this subject

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-30-speeding-cushion_N.htm

Of course all the ticket revenue doesn't go directly to the police dept. But police budgets are tied to local and/or state governments who do get a large chunk of that revenue. And local/state politicians have influence over law enforcement top brass.

I can appreciate pressure to fill budget gaps. That's an issue faced by lots of organizations these days. I do however, have an issue with changing the ways certian laws are enforced specifically to increase municipal revenue. Especially when you consider that the citizens 'contributing' that increased revenue are facing the same economic pressure.

[redkow97]

you do know the depts only get like 2% of a ticket right? If the Dep has to show up for court it cost them 1500% more then that 2% they get.

Especially if the LEO is getting overtime to be there.

I still believe the pressure exists to pull in more ticket revenue.

I like LEO's, but I hate the union mentality that some of them exhibit. In cuyahoga county, public employees' pension amount is based off their "top 3" years of earning. It had never occurred to me until a detective said this to me, but "my top 3 years might be in my mid 30's even though I'll be making a much higher base when I'm 50 years old. If i hustle and put in a lot of overtime one year, that's probably one of my top 3. Who wants to work their ass off when they're a few years away from retirement?"

...so the guy basically admitted that the people who are close to retiring just don't give a shit, because their pension is already vested, and the percentage was secured years ago.

Makes me think they might want to go to "last" 3 years instead of "top" 3. The two should be synonymous when it comes to base pay. If they want overtime, great, not going to tell cops they don't deserve that, but it shouldn't be a reason to slack later in their career.

[snot]

We saw over 10 last nite! But..

After the show we were unloading gear and an officer blocked the drive jumped out of his cruiser, popped the trunk, then he pulled out the spike strips and threw them out. Car was flying he got all 4 tires! 4 more cruisers flew by, he turned around an rejoined the case. About a 1/3 mile up was a 4 way stop, they had it blocked with more cars. The driver stopped there, when we went by ( no choice only way home) they were stuffing a chick in one of the cars.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Especially if the LEO is getting overtime to be there.

I still believe the pressure exists to pull in more ticket revenue.

I like LEO's, but I hate the union mentality that some of them exhibit. In cuyahoga county, public employees' pension amount is based off their "top 3" years of earning. It had never occurred to me until a detective said this to me, but "my top 3 years might be in my mid 30's even though I'll be making a much higher base when I'm 50 years old. If i hustle and put in a lot of overtime one year, that's probably one of my top 3. Who wants to work their ass off when they're a few years away from retirement?"

...so the guy basically admitted that the people who are close to retiring just don't give a shit, because their pension is already vested, and the percentage was secured years ago.

Makes me think they might want to go to "last" 3 years instead of "top" 3. The two should be synonymous when it comes to base pay. If they want overtime, great, not going to tell cops they don't deserve that, but it shouldn't be a reason to slack later in their career.

He should re think that. 20 years worth of raises plus pulling the over time then in what is more likely a softer job would result in a larger 3 years...

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

OSP is hiring a lot of guys to fill the void that will be left with higher ups retiring in the next couple years. So maybe thats why there is an increased number of them out.

[redkow97]

He should re think that. 20 years worth of raises plus pulling the over time then in what is more likely a softer job would result in a larger 3 years...

He's a detective, not a mathematician. I think LEO's are entitled to make a decent living, but I think the current incentive structure promotes less than ideal performance.

(I had a lengthy union rant typed out, but that's just off-topic for this thread.)

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Lol

[Disclaimer]

If I then write a ticket under state code, the city gets no revenue. If the person then fights that ticket, the city actually loses money because they pay me to go to court, and pay the municpal prosecutor to prosecute the case.

If I write a ticket under city code, and the person pays the ticket, the city gets $13. If the person then fights the ticket, again, the city loses money by having to pay me and the prosecutor.

I will grant you that communities which use a "mayors court" do see more revenue per ticket, but it's still a small amount and really is more of a "break even" proposition.

Given the economics of the situation... why would a prosecutor ever choose to prosecute a MM violation then? Maybe I'm still bitter they paid two guys (OSHP) to come to court on my speeding ticket.

...so the guy basically admitted that the people who are close to retiring just don't give a shit, because their pension is already vested, and the percentage was secured years ago.

May you be as physically and mentally spry near retirement as you are now...

I guess I don't see the problem. A lot of people bust their asses earlier in life to make the rest of their life easier. One less stressor on them regarding their retirement and if they're happy that their "top 3" years were early in their career, then to each their own. Unless they're blatantly lazy at their job, I wouldn't condemn them for not working an extra 10hr of OT per week when they want to get home and visit with their grandchildren or whatever. That's not "slacking" that's work-life balance... and I'd rather have someone that can focus on an issue with clarity, than some young hotshot that thinks they can be everything to everyone and ends up halfassing everything, "but they're getting so much done". Quality > quantity issue.

He's a detective, not a mathematician. I think LEO's are entitled to make a decent living, but I think the current incentive structure promotes less than ideal performance.

(I had a lengthy union rant typed out, but that's just off-topic for this thread.)

I'm interested to hear what your definition of "a decent living" is... are they entitled to make as much money as a lawyer?

[MeefZah]

So may this explains why its not uncommon to see people with equipment violations (lights not working), or non use of turn signals, things like, being overlooked/ignored by Leos. I have seen a Leo right behind someone with rear lights out, or see them turn right in front of a Leo without using their signals, and nothing is done about it. I know you all are overworked, but it seems these things being ignored only add up to real problems later, accidents and such. Traffic on 270 at rush hours is unreal, but really needs more traffic control. 3 to 4 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic running at 75 mph while drivers text, lane cutting....really needs some control, more tickets or worse. I can only imagine how difficult this would be....maybe using an eye in the sky?, or it is better to just let em run and catch problems when they become twisted pieces of metal?

Not that I am pointing fingers at you, but doesn't this all add to the chaos?

Part of the issue is the amount of other stuff us real cops deal with (state patrol excluded since their job entails mostly just traffic).

I might be en route to one of the 20 calls I handle in an 8 hour shift when I fall in behind your light malfunctioning / tailgating / texting driver. I can't delay a more urgent call to make a traffic stop on some minor bullshit.

The stops I do make are either out of dispatched calls or they are made when I am not currently on or en route to another call... and as I have said in numerous other posts on this topic, I generally don't write for minor stuff unless there is an extenuating circumstance or it leads to a bigger violation.

Given the economics of the situation... why would a prosecutor ever choose to prosecute a MM violation then? Maybe I'm still bitter they paid two guys (OSHP) to come to court on my speeding ticket.

I concur, but it's the principle of the thing, coupled with the fact that if they didn't prosecute, everyone who got a MM citation would then contest it knowing it would be dismissed, thus "contributing to the chaos". It would basically be free reign to drive like an asshole, if you get caught, oh well - ticket will be dismissed anyway.

Edited for this side note - you want to discuss wasted spending, if the OSP plane gets you and you fight the ticket, the pilot FLIES to the airport, parks the plane, and gets a ride from a trooper to the courthouse. He and the issuing trooper then wait for court... so the state is paying 2 guys OT, plus the cost of flying a plane to wherever, which can't be cheap... all that for a MM ticket on which the state will collect about $26 after court fees and such.

Edited September 24, 2012 by MeefZah

[Disclaimer]

Edited for this side note - you want to discuss wasted spending, if the OSP plane gets you and you fight the ticket, the pilot FLIES to the airport, parks the plane, and gets a ride from a trooper to the courthouse. He and the issuing trooper then wait for court... so the state is paying 2 guys OT, plus the cost of flying a plane to wherever, which can't be cheap... all that for a MM ticket on which the state will collect about $26 after court fees and such.

This makes me smile.