IT and Call Center peeps get in here

[JStump]

So I recently lost my job over very stupid circumstances and have been looking for a new one when yesterday something may have fallen in my lap too good to be true. I was helping my brother car shop when we ended up at a Kia dealership, he really wants a Soul, we found a black one and started talking numbers with the sales person, all his numbers kept coming up $2000 more than what I thought the value should be after looking at KBB and edmonds, so the sales manager comes out to go over the numbers with us again. We ended up talking about what we do for a living and I told him I was Tech Support for a software company. His eyes get big and says "So your THE computer guy huh?" I said yeah I guess and he proceeds to ask me about what kind of work I have done.

He then tells me to follow him and leads me up stairs to a place customers are obviously not supposed to be and he shows me this room with a few older servers in it sitting on the floor and asks me if they were any good and if I knew how to set that kind of stuff up. I told him yes and he explains that over the past year or so business has gone from 30-40 cars a month to 130+ a month and they need a staffed call center now that they are doing so much business and asks if I would be interested in setting it up. Heres the kicker, he basically told me I can do whatever the hell I want since there isn't any system in place now and I can bill them with a "really nice commission" added to it or they could put me on payroll if I wanted and probably even an office somewhere in the building. From my understanding, he wants to do this at his dealership first then expand it to the other 12 dealerships they have. Told me I can work whatever hours I want, I could come in at night to work on it if I wanted and basically everything you could want in a job. It sounds like I would basically be my own boss. Since they have ZERO IT on staff right now, I would be help desk at the dealers too.

Like I said earlier, this sounds too good to be true for a young guy like me. How should I even go about this? He gave me his home and cell number and told me to think about it and to call him next week. I need input here for if this actually is true.

I am going to call Monday to try and set up a time to talk about details but this first system isn't going to be very big, like 15 phones in the room next to the servers. I think it is something I can definitely do after working at Sherwin Williams on their 300+ server environment but I have only limited interaction with phone systems which was a massive Siemens system at Sherwin. Does this sound like the perfect job for a beginning IT career or am I forgetting things and actually in over my head on this? I am not an expert on these things, I know, but I feel like since I am basically building the system from the ground up I will have a more extensive knowledge of how the system works and will learn as I go. Hell, this could even turn into some future jobs for some of you if this goes across all the dealers.

Edited October 19, 2012 by JStump

[Gunner75]

I would consult with an it career counseling agent and get their thoughts. If it goes as big as you say you might consider securing a salary position with a substantially good amount and go from there. Try to get a feel for if he wants an employee or an on call it tech guy. Try to see if you can get him to reveal what he would consider is a good negotiating starting point. You could always start off with the gear you know he will need submit the cost of the gear then submit the cost that you feel would be appropriate. Go slightly higher because if hes smart he will probably negotiate.

It does sound like it could be legit. But to be safe i would try to get a position as a salaried employee. That way you dont have to worry about him stiffing you

sent from my galaxy s 3 using tapatalk

[rick37]

I might suggest that if you are doing subcontract work,You may want to have a contract drawn up to protect yourself and them

In said contract make sure it spells out what is expected of you and what you will be paid,Then have a business attorney look it over...

Good Luck

[ohdaho]

So I would think on a bigger scale and maybe establish your own business/LLC. Contract out the work (setup and follow-on IT support).

Establish a clientele, gain positive feedback/recommendations, and branch out. Come up with a business plan, logistics, sustainment, etc.

Open your aperture a little, but then again my goals and your goals in life may be drastically different. Looks like a great opportunity either way you go.

[JStump]

All good points, but I would be leaning more towards a salary because this not having a job thing is stressing me to the max right now and I need security when dealing with my income. If this goes well, then I will think about getting my own thing going. Who knows, maybe I will do salary the first year or so then when they expand to other dealers do my own thing with them as my first client.

I also told him I would be willing to do the emergency after hours things and off hour maintenance/upgrades, so pretty much all the standard stuff an admin would do which would be more of a salary position. What would you guys things is a reasonable salary for this position?

Edited October 19, 2012 by JStump

[jbot]

1. get educated. fast. i hope you're a quick learner cause if you're not, you're going to be even more over your head than you already are

2. take hourly, not salary. you're going to be working a LOT of over time. don't take less than $20/hr +full benefits. honestly, if they're not total cheap asses, aim for 25-30. i dont think the whole "work as a contractor/form llc and charge lots of money" will work because they approached him for the fact that he is probably going to be way cheaper than a consulting firm.

3. find a friend (hopefully, some one who has a bit more experience with the actual work required) and get him to help you. he doesnt have to make as much as you. do everything you can to continue to head the newly formed Jstump IT department. eventually become CIO of that dealer network. get money, get bitches, etc etc

[ohdaho]

i dont think the whole "work as a contractor/form llc and charge lots of money" will work because they approached him for the fact that he is probably going to be way cheaper than a consulting firm.

Never said charge lots of money. The whole point is charge less than huge firms and form a clientele base (mainly small biz) that is happy. But its not something he should do if he's not prepared to form a business case and evaluate the market in the area.

[JStump]

I am a quick learner which is why I am pretty confident I can do this. Good thinking on hourly vs salary. I would probably ask for $22/hr but honestly if they said they would give $50k salary I would probably take it. This isn't a time critical thing from what I understand so if I were to work 9-5 on salary I don't think they would have a problem with it taking a bit longer to implement. But thats also something that would need to be discussed and factored into the final salary/wage.

[Cheech]

1. get educated. fast. i hope you're a quick learner cause if you're not, you're going to be even more over your head than you already are

2. take hourly, not salary. you're going to be working a LOT of over time. don't take less than $20/hr +full benefits. honestly, if they're not total cheap asses, aim for 25-30. i dont think the whole "work as a contractor/form llc and charge lots of money" will work because they approached him for the fact that he is probably going to be way cheaper than a consulting firm.

3. find a friend (hopefully, some one who has a bit more experience with the actual work required) and get him to help you. he doesnt have to make as much as you. do everything you can to continue to head the newly formed Jstump IT department. eventually become CIO of that dealer network. get money, get bitches, etc etc

Brace yourself, this is probably going to become a novel.

The token asian's dead on, as usual. I'll elaborate a bit more, since this isn't that far off from how I got started. My start was doing IT services for a 6 person company however, not for a fully-functional dealership with branch opportunuties. If you and him can hammer out an agreement, you may have just hit on something that will last you a long, long time.

First things first: you need to establish a scope of work. It's fine if that scope is simply "everything", but you need to get some sort of vision or idea of what they want to have done. Without that, you're flying into this completely blind and they are taking advantage of the fact that you're a hungry young kid who thinks he can do everything and is willing to work for peanuts to get the experience. GET A SCOPE OF WORK, and have it be as detailed as possible. If it is "everything", what does everything entail?

Once you have a scope of work, you should be able to start breaking that down into implementation projects to fit their goals, piece by piece. Once you have those bite-sized projects, you should be able to figure out if you have the chops necessary to take it all down. Here's where the murky waters come in. If you're a quick study, then some working nights (and working mornings before the users show up) will probably be in your future, but you'll get the job done. If you're not, then serious downtime will result and you'll piss off your client. These aren't questions I can answer, only you can. You have to be honest with yourself, any bullshitting will only cause tension between you and your client, and having worked for car dealers before, they don't deal well with that kind of stuff.

So now you have a scope of work, a idea of where the client wants to be, and you've broken down the scope into manageable projects that you're pretty confident you can bust out without pissing many people off. Now you need to figure out about how much time is it going to REASONABLY take you to bang these out? I may not be like a lot of other consultants, but if I needed 20 hours to do something that should have reasonably took 10 (because I was using the other 10 to research because I've never done it before), then I, personally, have a hard time charging for the full 20 hours and will probably charge 10-15. These are decisions you need to make for yourself.

After that's done, and you have a estimate on how long it's going to take, THEN you can start talking about your hourly rate. If bennies is important to you, then it might behoove you to take a salary position. Again, this is something that you have to decide. If you're going to take salary, however, you better make damn sure you have some built-ins for on-call support. Or, it might be possible to do salary work and have the on-call be a extra hourly rate. With contracting, there aren't a lot of rules other than the ones you and the client draft for yourselves. I will say this on compensation, you don't get many merit raises when you're a contractor/consultant. Plan accordingly. From what you've said already this already sounds like a 25/hr position, and that's factoring in on-call work.

All in all, make sure you're protected. Get everything in writing. Enjoy the ride, and work your ass off.

[jbot]

Never said charge lots of money. The whole point is charge less than huge firms and form a clientele base (mainly small biz) that is happy. But its not something he should do if he's not prepared to form a business case and evaluate the market in the area.

i didn't mean to put words in your mouth... that's just how i viewed things going down. in my opinion, he would have to charge quite a bit more per hour to justify the investment in money (which he might not have much of, given he lost his job recently), time or both to form and operate a business. throw in more complex business returns and filings (turbo tax wont quite cut it for line by line and more advanced depreciation calcs and he'll want to do those things unless he wants to get raped on his 1099's from the dealership), and adding in 1099's for people he takes on or even payroll, he'll be into it up to his eyeballs... and judging by his posts, it didnt seem like he would want to go that way (stability and decent wages over high wages high risk due to stress and insecurity), and judging by how the dealer approached it, they're wanting to set this system up at a bargain (which is why they're willing to propose this to a younger guy off the street, rather than approaching a IT/com firm). putting in that sort of time and effort to setup a S Corp/llc to do this, i wouldn't want to charge less than $40-50/hr... but at the same time, i'd have a hard time justifying charging that much without having done that sort of thing quite a bit (which it sounds like he hasnt). if i was REALLY good and had lots of experience, and an experienced team, charge those fuckers to the moon... but he's not there yet.

this sounds like one of those rare opportunities where the customer is flexible and willing to let you learn on the job because their need isn't desperate, yet. and at the same time, they're not willing to pay out the nose to do it "right" or the traditional way. i think once you prove yourself to them, and have earned enough to have some financial leeway, that would be the perfect time to break off from them and form a consulting firm... but until then, becoming their employee seems to make sense (the benefits that come along with being employed full time are nice too). i hope it works out well for you.

[jester3681]

This sounds like a good opportunity. I'd jump on it if I were you. Just make sure all your ducks are in a row. Dealerships have terrible insurance, just FYI. I'd try to get your benefits covered completely (no out of pocket monthly premiums), but your actual benefits won't be that great. Talk to a business lawyer and make sure that if you do this as a sub-contractor your interests are protected. Talk with your insurance agent and make sure you're covered if something goes awry. Other than that, enjoy the ride. You may be the next Michael Dell, for all we know. Just remember us little guys...

[JStump]

Thanks guys, this is all very informative. I do already have a list of question drafted like time frames, workloads (how many calls / users at once, peak hours and events), existing plans, final expectations, expansion, budgets, and pretty much anything else I can think of I am writing down on a legal pad for when I sit down with him. Is there a good list of questions out there for implementing projects like this?

[just_some_dude]

Don't buy the car before you get the job ! I could totally see someone pulling something shady like this.

To me does seem a bit odd, but if as good as it sounds is a good opportunity. I would suggest some sort of formal contract explaining how you will be paid, when you will be paid, and what your duties are. You could get as detailed as you want, but at least cover your base. I don't think you are in over your head unless you have no interest in learning.

[JStump]

Don't buy the car before you get the job ! I could totally see someone pulling something shady like this.

To me does seem a bit odd, but if as good as it sounds is a good opportunity. I would suggest some sort of formal contract explaining how you will be paid, when you will be paid, and what your duties are. You could get as detailed as you want, but at least cover your base. I don't think you are in over your head unless you have no interest in learning.

That was my first thought too but the guy actually told me when he was showing me around not to worry about the car and told me we could get it lower than what I was asking, maybe even a new one at dealer cost. That is what made me think its legit. He turned us away basically saying we will be in touch, didn't even try to sell the car after we talked.

[Strictly Street]

become CIO of that dealer network. get money, get bitches, etc etc

Before you get all excited, take a breath and think a bit.

I'm going along with everybody else here. Get some hard facts and get it on paper.

Wonder why the guy waited on somebody to walk in? Karma? Too busy? Already has an estimate from a company that he think wants too much money?

Consider what he is really asking for. Project management, Network design, Cabling, Purchasing manager, Inventory control, On site support, TCP/IP/Voip design and implementation Telcomm contracts not to even get as far as the other branches which would involve fail over designs as well.

I'm also going with the LLC idea so you don't get sued into the stone age if it blows up on you. Remember the people who want this have no clue what it takes to actually do it. You have no clue what they are really thinking of either. Not that they will change their minds about what it is they think they want a couple of hundred times.

Clearly you can't do it all by yourself nor should you try to. Pretty big job covering just the first few steps.

I haven't even mentioned software yet...

[JStump]

They did have a contractor that was supposed to come in and do it from Akron but it never panned out so they just put it on hold. And I agree I can't do it entirely on my own and contractors are on my list of questions. For the starting system I think I can do most of it though. There is already a network the desktops are set up on and cabling for the new call center will only go to the room next door so not a problem. Its once I get past the first dealer when I would need to enlist help.

[Cheech]

Clearly you can't do it all by yourself nor should you try to. Pretty big job covering just the first few steps.

I haven't even mentioned software yet...

Seeing as he doesn't have a complete scope of work, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion quite yet. I bit off more than I could chew with a 6-person site when I was 23, and with some late nights I was able to slog through it. If(!) it opens up to multiple dealers, then he might be in over his head doing it solo (or at the very least, taking on temporary help until he can stabilize all the environments) but we don't know enough to say definitively that Stumpy's over his head.

[Cheech]

Any updates to this, broseph?

[JStump]

Called yesterday to set up a time to talk but he asked me to call back Thursday since they are having a huge sale through Wednesday and are really busy.

[namtugeoj]

Well hope it pans out for you. Did your brother ever get a car?

[JStump]

Nope, not yet. Waiting on getting a new job since I am the cosigner.

[InyaAzz]

They did have a contractor that was supposed to come in and do it from Akron but it never panned out so they just put it on hold. And I agree I can't do it entirely on my own and contractors are on my list of questions. For the starting system I think I can do most of it though. There is already a network the desktops are set up on and cabling for the new call center will only go to the room next door so not a problem. Its once I get past the first dealer when I would need to enlist help.

Did you evaluate the existing network? Don't assume that because they have one in place now, that it's going to do what you need it to do in the future.

EDIT:

And by the way, if you haven't figured this out already, you're over your head. The 'Computer Guy', to most people, is someone who can do everything. Voice, data, video, B2N, security, etc. It doesn't sound like you cover ALL of those areas sufficiently. I could be wrong, so please feel free to correct me. And, I'm sure you know...setting up home networks doesn't qualify anyone for the challenges you'll be facing in a corporate environment.

Like the others have said...an LLC is your friend. Just as important is bringing someone else on who has experience with this...maybe a project manager...who can guide you or guide the work for you while you handle the hands on details. I ASSURE you....there'll be things that you don't know or haven't thought of, and they'll bite you in the arse. I've been in the IT field for 16 years, and I've spent the last 10 in networking and security....and I still haven't seen it all.

Edited October 23, 2012 by InyaAzz

[JStump]

I definitely do not know ALL of those areas, but I really need to sit down with him and see exactly what he wants done before I make a decision. I will post back here after I talk to him so I can get a better idea of what I am dealing with.

Edited October 23, 2012 by JStump

[jbot]

i still think it's a better idea to get signed on as a full time (hourly) employee. you lay out your scope of work, but worst case scenario, they fire you for being incompetent... you get on board as a contractor via LLC or sole prop., or whatever, then you gotta worry about all the other crap that comes with it and you can get fired AND sued if you dont write up your contract right.

i say get hired as employee, get benefits (even if they are meager) and represent yourself as a good foundation to their end goal, not the end all, be all.

[JStump]

i still think it's a better idea to get signed on as a full time (hourly) employee. you lay out your scope of work, but worst case scenario, they fire you for being incompetent... you get on board as a contractor via LLC or sole prop., or whatever, then you gotta worry about all the other crap that comes with it and you can get fired AND sued if you dont write up your contract right.

i say get hired as employee, get benefits (even if they are meager) and represent yourself as a good foundation to their end goal, not the end all, be all.

This is what I am going for. It may even come down to having a contractor come in for a few weeks to get it initially configured with me helping, then I can run it after that. No idea until I sit down with him and see what his expectations are.