Lost

great link Likwid I need to up size my 12 gage round choice http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm "Birdshot as a Defense Load I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load? We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds. A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this. In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs. Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job."

Likwid in that wiki you posted the SXT rounds are listed as being discontinued.

likwid thanks for the pictures That picture of the expanded round if frightening. The Black talon debate is irrelevant any way they haven't been made in a long time. Walther your point is taken........ My attorney called them frangible and not to put them in your carry gun.......I stand corrected.

Issac papa......I was not commenting on CCW, but the single day or weekend CCW courses I need to fix that n my post. I was not commenting on shooting ability. I also agree with your point that if the threat is neutralized you can/should not take any addition action...... While I am not worried bout CSI investigating, It just isn't right to finish the guy off if he is down and not a threat.

now walter I don't remember typing "blah blah nonsense". If you are arguing about the Black Talon quote, please do the research. If you are arguing about the cool to carry comment please create your own thread. I fully understand the difference in penetration, expansion and implied damage between FMJ, hollow points and frangible rounds. This is a friendly spirited discussion of our ammo choices.

chevy.......I enjoy a spirited debate. I am sorry if you interpreted my post as an attack. Like you my home layout does not allow for a lot of safe shooting lanes. If I am in the bed room I only have one safe lane. Hense the 12 gage. The living room and kitchen has much more latitude.

Likwid the insurance is not to protect what you currently own but you and your families future. They can and will garnish your wages to fulfill a judgment. A civil judgment can be worse than a criminal judgment. I was going to use OJ as the example, Agree or disagree innocent in criminal court and guilty in civil court. For losing everything he owns he lives pretty well, except for currently being in jail for an unrelated incident.

Read some of the CCW posts you will understand my opinion that some on the board carry because it is cool. I carry because I live in the hood.

Anyone who shoots for legs or arms is an idiot..... Like everyone here I am shooting center mass till the gun goes click. The debate is not shot placement, it is round choice My firearm choice and round choice do exactly what max power said. 45 colt Lots of BIG holes 300 grain bullet traveling at 900fps. were as a 40 S&W sends a 150 grain bullet at 1100fps. 9mm luger 124 grain hydro shock bullet at 1220 fps. Frangible rounds were labeled cop killers in the mid 90's, black talons had a coating on them that made them black. The coating not teflon was rumored to help the bullet pass thru bullet proof vests. These rumors are untrue of course. But Frangible rounds have been labeled bad evil by the general public who will be sitting on the grand jury. I would never shoot at an attacker whose back was to a room occupied by a loved one. I don't give a shit what kinda bullet you chose if you miss that bullet will pass thru the wall into the next room. So your argument about shooting a guy against your one year olds room is ridiculous. I would never risk my childs life. I would move myself to an angle for a safer shot. A complete CCW course in a weekend?????? In adequate training, sounds like training just to carry and not truly prepare you for the consequences. We spent two nights on shot choices and evaluating situations. The course I participated in lasted two weeks, three nights during the week and two saturdays at the range. We even had training on handling the police after a shooting or being stopped while carrying. But I digress. I have a million dollar personal liability policy plus the NRA protection as well. Just trying to get the OR carrying group to think about carrying a firearm beyond it is cool.

I would not call Little kings rare. I drank a bunch as a teen

The Store name is Gentile's They sell home brew stuff too.

chevy remember it is a jury of your peers. In rural areas the view of firearms and their use is much different than the city. People living in rich affluent suburbs have a different view than those living in the hood. Your Grand jury is luck of the draw.

IMHO there is a huge difference between pulling a carry side arm in the grocery store parking lot and a home defense weapon. My weapon for home defense is a 12 gauge with #4 shot and a slug barrel and pistol grips. It probably won't kill ya but shred the attacker and stop the event. If you shoot someone, in self defense or not, your case will go to the grand jury. In a rural area no problem but in an urban surban area you need to worry about gun and ammo perceptions and myths. I asked the attorney about caliber choices, he said unless you chose something extreme like a 44 mag or 50 AE jury's don't seem to care about caliber. Again, that is why I have him on retainer. So no one answered about liability insurance?

Instead of trashing up the other thread. My attorney advised me not to use frangible rounds in my carry gun. He also advised me to avoid high velocity rounds, pass thru's hitting innocents. I carry 45 long colt with hollow points. Tarus judge is my choice. Just something to think about that's all. The attorneys explanation to me was this. A standard hollow point will stop most men. If you use a frangible round such as a black talon, ranger stx or hydroshock it shows that you intend to do excessive bodily harm. You intend to kill the attacker as apposed to just stopping the attack. again not my explanation. Another question to the group.......How much liability insurance do you carry on yourself and does it cover you if you use your carry gun?????

So if he violates the terms of his probation what are the consequences. He has a problem and the court is gonna help him with it.

In buying a home theater........ an additional feature I would look for is a night time mode. It compresses the dynamic range so when you turn up the volume to hear the people talking you don't scare the neighbors with the ensuing gun shots or explosions.

I would be careful with ammo choices. My attorney advised me against carrying frangible or personal defense rounds like you have in your picture. According to him it shows malicious intent and looks bad in front of a grand jury in turn making his job harder. I carry regular old hollow points in a 45 colt long. Remember every dirt bag has a family and I takes a lot less burden of proof in Civil court for them to win.

tank of gas, margarita with the wife and dinner

yes good fun, especially when it is full of parasites.

I have a number of muzzle loaders. 58 cal zouave smooth bore, Not flint 45 cal kentucky CVA 50 cal Hawken CVA As suggested the new inline muzzle loaders are nice. No wet caps and almost cartridge level reliability. Some of the in line muzzle loaders with the new bullet combo's are more accurate and harder hitting than most shot guns. Now ask me if it is in the spirit of muzzle loader hunting. of course electronic vs. caps vs flintlock vs matchlock

You got some cheap ass pans

Well the walmart is actually in 23 and there is one accrossed morris road from easton. Easton you would probably be ok. But the people from Powell and Dumbland are just too conservative for their own good. The law would get you before you got to the pharmacy section or past produce.

My cousin lived in Phoenix a couple of year. They open carry, he strapped on his anaconda and went to the grocery store. Freaked me out. While there I noticed 4 other guys with hand cannons walking around. I would love to see a guy do that at the Walmart at Polaris or easton. The law would be all over it.

Still doesn't beat the idiot putting an energy drink in his gas tank