Aaron

I would also like to add that everyone who said that the pads DON'T melt onto the rotor are JUST as wrong as everyone is telling me I am. Sinister ss littleguy evilnotch habitual sinner ta in progress haole crossle And to those that don't understand how you can melt brake pad material onto the rotor and still yield a thinner than factory rotor, think harder. wayne crossle

Do I have enough "experience" to have this debate? Probably not. I believe this article. I believe that pads melt onto the rotors. I also have heard that excess heat, and improper lug nut tq causes the rotors to warp. Do I have any scientific proof of either? No Do you guys? None has been presented. Not 1 picture, nothing but opinions as of now. Contrary to what some of my posts might have implied, I do believe that heat, improper tq and pad transfer are ALL responsible for warped rotors. I should have never said definitively that rotors don't warp from heat. It was not what I was trying to propose. If that is the source of all of this, then it is my fault. I simply wanted a discussion on the matter. I won't lie, I do and will continue to believe that pad transfer contributes to the majority of warped rotors until a picture, or personal evidence is provided. You guys can call it hard headedness or me retarded all you want. Is it really a big deal that I expect more than personal testimonials as my proof? The front rotors on my GTI were warped. I will be taking them down to o'reileys sometime this week to see what we come up with. I will take pictures and post my findings. Almost everybody in here needs a few beers or some alone time with lotion asap. Its a discussion, grow up.

So you are saying that one of the largest brake manufacturers, and race suppliers overlooked your simplistic argument? Think about what YOU are saying. Of course the rotor gets thinner with wear. That is obvious. What I am saying is that the metal itself isn't bending, pad material is on the rotor. So if the rotor is now at 75% thickness after 50k miles, if it was "warped" lets say it is now 75% thickness on most of the rotor, and 76% thickness at one spot on the rotor where pad material was on the rotor. This would cause a pulsating pedal. I will trust stoptech before "I SEEN IT."

which is cheaper for Honda? Turn the rotors? or replace the pads? Money could be the reasoning behind their bulletin.

Pulled from a forum from user curtis73: Yes rotors warp, but they do not cause the pulsating brakes everyone complains about. That is from cementite inclusions in the cast iron. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/w...brakedisk.shtml I've personally confirmed their claims with a scanning electron microscope. Perks of being a BioChem major back in college. If you think about it, calipers (floating and fixed) are designed to put equal pressure on both sides of the rotor. If the rotor is warped, either the caliper moves (floating caliper) or the caliper transfers fluid. Even if it didn't, when the warped part comes around, it would add friction to one side and remove it from the other, keeping mean friction similar throughout the rotation. machining rotors removes cementite inclusions, but if you don't properly bed in new pads, you'll be back at square one in a week or less. Its happened to me many times with my track pads. within a week there was little or no runout, but the pulsing was unbearable. I've also had rotors with lots of runout and no pulsing at all. I think I see a discrepancy that should be cleared up. Some of us are discussing the same argument but different sides of the coin. Warped describes a disc with UNIFORM thickness, but with runout. Like a vinyl record that gets hot. A warped disc doesn't cause brake pulse because the calipers are designed to let the pads follow the surface. A rotor with bulges or depositions that change its THICKNESS will cause brake pulse, but that is not caused by heat, dragging brakes, or water puddles. That is caused from deposition of material. I just wanted to maybe get us on the same page. A WARPED rotor doesn't change thickness, it only alters from flat. Its no longer a flat surface. A distorted rotor or one with depositions/inclusions on it has different THICKNESSES and will cause brake pulse. The spinning rotor is trying to squeeze thicker parts through the pads that you are applying pressure to. If its warped, the pads just alter their position to follow the rotor, but it doesn't necessarily alter the friction being applied to the rotor. I think that's the difference. Die-hard techs call any rotor that needs to be turned a "warped" disc. Nothing has changed, its just a greater understanding which has caused us to apply a more accurate terminology.

I understand there are 2 sides to this. Yes they warp. No its the pads. Saying that they warp, you have seen it, is not valid. Please explain with detail how you know the composition of the warped rotors high or low spots. The article does this with clarity. The posts that say, yes they warp, I have seen it, are bogus. Again, this is a discussion. I am willing to be swayed with evidence. I have no stake in the outcome of this, so lets keep it civil.

pad material fused onto the rotor is indeed metal. It is just a different composition. It will still look warped, but be from the pad material, and not the actual rotor metal.

So what is the explanation of the stoptech article then? There are dozens of sites that support this, but stoptech is the most recognizable.

Heat causes the pad to essentially melt onto the rotor. Decades of racing evidence>your exprerience And no need to be a douche about it. Its a discussion.

My post in V8 Beast's thread sparked some opinions on this that differed from my own. My statement: Warped rotors are caused by pad material being fused to the rotor causing an uneven rotor surface. This causes the pedal to pulsate. This is commonly referred to as a warped rotor. Their statement: A warped rotor is the disk metal itself bending from excess heat. My evidence: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml Discuss

I made a new thread. I think you are all wrong, so discuss it in here!!! http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1220151#post1220151

Speaking of this, my dad and I just did this, and more, on my GTI. OEM Rotors from dealer F+R Hawk HPS pads F+R Goodridge SS lines F+R Tyrol Sport caliper bushings F ATE Super Blue Dot 4 fluid Also used a Motive power bleeder and a caliper compression tool. Took us being careful a total of 7 hours to do this. First time on this car, and first time doing ss lines, fluid and using the power bleeder. Went smoothly, just a long job, with a few snags. Drives fantastic!!!! Let me know if you need any help.

Rotors don't bend from getting too hot. A warped rotor is deposits of pad material fused to the rotor creating a "warped" sensation. The pads are at fault, not the rotors.

Thanks for the link and the set!!! I will probably buy them at some point. I found a generic set on amazon for $23 as well. Same style as the MAC set.

Going to ntb downtown. Hopefully Derek can get me in tomorrow evening.

Audi Avants lowered with wheels are second to none in looks IMO. Choose wisely. You can get all of the looks and with the B7, 90% of the performance for MUCH cheaper with the A4.

Yes it does. A gay porn film. Jones will love it!!!

But then I would have to go to Wal-Mart. No thanks.

Looking to get them balanced after work tomorrow. Around 6pm. NTB downtown?

Yep, Erik brought some over today, and going to pick dave's up tomorrow so I have all the bases covered. My 06 was 14mm, but knowing german cars, they could have changed it by now! Thanks a lot guys.

Does anyone have a triple square set I can borrow this weekend? I need a 14mm I think. Tia

They are bit over-processed for my taste, but the subject matter is great!

Roll racing on the highway huh? He is driving it hard, but not like it should be driven.

Thanks for the info. I will check it out. Car looks much better in the pics than in person!!! lol