TTQ B4U

Correct because it needs to be said. Nice guy, great speaker, slightly less professional in his arrogance that stems from some hidden belief that he's some great POTUS which he's not but yeah, worth ranting about until he's gone.

The storm is an ominous sign from God that we're doomed. Off to clean the AR as hell is going to break loose. :gabe:

Keep in mind though that as POTUS, he's supposed to provide visions and have the ability to influence others (congress) to do more than they would do on their own. Leaders influence thoughts, emotions and actions of those working for them and with them. (congress). It's clear they don't feel he has credibility nor has he earned their trust and respect. With how he's governed thus far, again, no surprise.

I agree, the original wording was poor and as you noted could have been more elegantly stated. I like the link and how they point the finger at Romney for falsely claiming, blah, blah....when 1,234 other sites and people did the exact same thing. That's pure spin.

Not true. We're absolutely not helping our economy by borrowing money from them. Did you miss the points I've made about how it's allowing them to be way more competitive in the market than even us? Not to mention how it's driving them to buy our companies and technology interests. We're not doing ourselves any favors at all. We are subsidizing the faster-growing, second-largest economy in the world that competes with us world wide. Also, the bottom line is we are borrowing nearly $.50 of every dollar we spend and Obama isn't slowing down the spending and his idea of fixing it is saying he's going to tax only wealthy (which is BS)? Such a poor way of doing business but again, not surprising.

That TTRS is hot.

Technically, it's $16T but in discussions about the impact of our debt as it relates to foriegn gov'ts and their benefiting from it, it makes sense to key in on the fact the money's we've borrowed from other nations. Peter paying paul isn't as relevant and impacting as Peter paying http://c.ooi1.com/img/c/paul%20jp.png aka Mandarin for Paul. makes sense but as noted, China traded their debt into Gov't Notes which carry the least amount of interest but are more secure. Even they traded a bit of interest to insure we pay up. Won't need to as the rates are low. In the end, Obama hasn't put us anywhere near a position of paying anyone off. We're so far the opposite that it's not funny and in reality not worth evening playing hypotheticals with. That's the key point of this election; if Obama actually knew how to fix the economy in terms of driving demand, controlling spending and reducing debt, he would have done it. It's been four years and he hasn't.

I'm saying that for them to come back so quickly to clarify their statement or mis-statement is pretty fishy. But I'll give Jeep the benefit of the doubt that they are just clarifying things and won't read into why.

I'm not saying it's silly, I'm saying 10% is greater than 1/16th that is all. He's stating should we as a country be running our business with the "need" to borrow anything. The reality is it doesn't make sense. We've all said it, the gov't can't control spending and he's simply agreeing. Borrowing isn't the solution, especially continuing to do so at this point. Moving Forward means living within our means. He's not creating an enemy and I'm not sure where I said I was surprised that the debt they owed was that low? Why would we borrow to pay off China? That's like paying off one credit card with another?

pretty fishy wording if you ask me. I don't think it was a twisting of words. If anything Jeep's president used some pretty poor wording. That or someone got a nasty call from the White House or both.

Just correcting you on their percentage of debt and the fact that their investments are in Notes and for much shorter terms. I absolutely think we'll survive it but at a huge price to the American People just like has happened over the entire term Obama has been in office not fixing what he said he would. No fear bunker just a bunker of pissed off anger that America's first black president took his first term and flushed it. I say that after having a conversation with my brother in law who is black and he voted for Obama in 2008 but not this time. He basically said as a black man he's fucking pissed that such an opportunity was wasted. I agree. Obama may have a plan but he ain't no MLK who had a dream....and led people to make that dream come true. Obama couldn't lead a line dance to save his life. Agree. IMO that last comment is political talk for now that we own your car company we can move it where ever we want and we'll decide what factors we base that on...cough......labor costs...ahem.

He obviously has no idea what it was like for people in the early 80's. If inflation spiked into double digits, every mofo with a second mortage or credit card debt would jump off a bridge. I remember the days of 20%+ car loans and 18% mortgage rates. Both my brothers were driving POS's because if it. Can you imagine if that happened from 2013 through 2016? There would truly be a rebellion. Scary thing is it could happen. Actually growing up as I did in a cash only household and fortunate to do so, is why I'm a cheap fucker like I am living below means.

in 2011 China converted 97% of our debt we owe them into treasuring notes. Those notes can be 2, 3, 5, and 10 years. So really, yes they can demand their money anytime when they are due. They actually hold about $1.2T of our $11T debt. (10%) that's outside the debt we owe ourselves which combined puts our debt at about $16T. Now they wouldn't call in all their chips because that would be a nightmare for the entire world economic system and they too would suffer. Won't happen. I doubt they would even slowly sell it off either because if they did the dollar demand would drop and the cost of their exporting goods would go up and that's bad for them considering they are the worlds #1 exporter and we in the US Buy a shit ton of their goods. That's why Japan has bought into our debt so much too. When I worked at Panasonic they were just starting to do so and it was widely known they were doing so to gain and edge on export costs to compete with the up and coming Korean brands. Makes sense that Japan is within a few bucks of China in terms of holding our debt. It gives them tremendous buying power.

A great example of how Obama's ideas actually lead to outsourcing....fuck up a company enough, lower the value of the dollar enough and there's fire sale in the US with companies begging to be bought out. Once bought, said companies move production elsewhere. It's a brilliant plan though because in the meantime, he stood buy all those union workers talking about how "the other guy" said he'd let you fail (wrong) but they won't ever know that and in the mean time said union workers vote for you and put you back in office again. Days later, you're working in China or unemployed. Nice. Moving Forward alright. Forward in the unemployment line. Come get your EBT Car guys!!!! If America votes Obama back in I hope every car manufacturer moves shit over seas and puts the dumb ass union workers out of a job. Perhaps then they will look failure in the face and recognize it as obviously they aren't seeing it today.

I think he's been pretty clear on how to do it. You have to increase demand to increase product flow to increase jobs. That said, he has to balance the budget and put a solid plan to show others we're going to pay off debt. If not, who the fuck would want to invest in us or buy our stuff. No different that me as an employer, I would do business with a vendor that has shitty credit, $17T in debt, no plan and continuing to spend and who's revenue stream has been flat at best. Make sense so far? That's why Mitt is talking about opening up markets and shoring up trade agreements. Fuck, China alone grew their economy 10% on exports alone by insuring their was demand for goods. Must be nice to have money laying around to buy up our debt and have such power. I wonder why Obama hasn't had that a part of his plan? Perhaps because he has no idea on how to make money....but he sure can criticize Mitt for doing it. Yeah, I'd hate to have a POTUS that could put us in a position to have cash flow like that. There's more to it, but in the end, Obama hasn't been able to do any of the above so it's really no secret as to why the country is stagnate. Romeny has done this his entire life, Obama has never done it and has had four years at POTUS to do it and hasn't. What makes anyone think the next four years would be any different? It's fucking amazing anyone could believe in him. If he was such a good POTUS, then where are the results that back that success? We have companies sitting on ass-loads of cash and as I've already posted not going to spend any of it due to lack of demand in the market place and in part to what's coming in January in terms of uncertainty with tax code. Get ready, because just about everyone on this board is going to be paying $2k more minimum in taxes thanks to Obama. Not going to spend any of it if healthcare reform is coming down as that's not going to be cheap and is only going to crush our economy even more. Again, amazing that Obama and his campaign have spent millions on talking about what the other guys' plan and not about their own or about their history of how it's worked and being seen in our daily lives. Hmmm.....

There's some talent on CR! They all look great.

Obama Leadership Moving us Forward alright...... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-24/firings-reach-highest-since-2010-as-ford-to-dow-face-sales-slump.html Cliffs: Obama certainly isn't improving things on the job front nor moving us forward Companies announcing massive cuts in labor: Ford Dow Chemical Colgate-Palmolive Co. DuPont Co. Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD) Hewlett-Packard Co. Cummins Inc. Kimberly-Clark Corp. Whirlpool Corp. 235 S&P 500 companies that have released third-quarter earnings, 137 have reported sales that trailed analysts’ estimates. U.S., companies are hesitant to expand Inaction on the Pending fiscal cliff, probably would cause a recession in the first half of 2013 The world’s largest economy probably grew at a 1.8 percent annual rate in the third quarter after expanding at a 1.3 percent pace in the previous three months but hey.....he has a plan.....

I don't have to dismiss anything. The reality of the economic numbers today do that for everyone. In the end there are more people out of work today than when he took office. All the stats measured show our economy is sucking ass. Those stats are very convincing to all except the financially stupid. (See post #46 for hot off the press information too) His stats were all fact-checked after the debate and IIRC they noted that there has been a net increase of just 300,000 nonfarm payroll jobs and if you count government jobs, there are actually 400,000 fewer people working today than in January 2009. But hey, that's right up there with him saying he cut $1T from the budget yet turned around and added $4T + dollars. Yep...both are examples of progress under Obama. In the end those that feel he did a great job and has lifted and improved our economy can vote for him. I suppose the official figures that get published every month/quarter are just wrong and Obama and his campaign are the ones who are right. In the end, America got exactly what they deserved for electing him and will do so again if he's re-elected. You know what's really funny is Obama says "he has a plan" to do blah, blah, blah......really? how have those plans worked out during his first term? They haven't. Again, Q3 Earnings reports are in....and they suck, but at least they don't suck as bad as Q2.

By his poor leadership and lack of real progress for this country he is letting this shit happen. You're right, it speaks directly to the crap economy that he assured us he would fix. It speaks directly to how he's doing. He's put our country at risk and the vultures are swooping in buying up our country's assets with the interest on the money we're borrowing from them. Bullshit? Yeah.....our economy under his "plan" of Hope and Change is just thriving. Excuse me while I look for all the successes in that realm he's just so willing to talk about during his campaign. Oh wait, he hasn't....I wonder why?

Obama's fantastic vision of America has put our companies in a world of hurt and thanks to his leadership and Moving us Forward into more debt, weaker credit and shitty financial situations has pretty much put everything in America on Sale in the eyes of foreign companies. China was on a buying spree and now even Japan is buying up companies. It's time for a leader to come in strengthen our economy and insure our dollar doesn't continue to be so weak. Time for someone to stop spending and borrowing and putting our industries that are left here in a position where they need to sell out. Sprint is likely going to Japan. China Petrochemical Corp, also known as Sinopec, bought up 30% of Devon Energy Corp. of Oklahoma City Dalian Wanda Group bought up AMC Entertainment who is all but broke. I think their flying the Chinese flag over Dublin Theathers. Wanxiang Group Corp. announced plans to provide a $465-million in loans to A123 Systems Inc., based in Waltham, Mass. who is struggling. Why? Because they are leading provider to hybrid cars. Was that part of Obama's Green plan too? China National Offshore Oil Corp., or CNOOC, is looking to buy Nexen Inc., a Canadian oil company with operations in U.S. waters in the Gulf of Mexico Xinjiang Goldwind Science and Technology Co., China's second-largest wind turbine maker has invested more than $200 million in U.S. wind farms in Illinois and Montana.

No, his next step is to just continue to let China and Japan and others buy up all our property and businesses. Typical step in the process of going belly up. Borrow and rack up debt, then sell off your possessions. Why not, all our stuff is made in China, Japan or Korea anyway.....

or doing absolutely nothing yet claiming to be America's Hero of Hope and Change. A future of Moving Forward to more and more debt for our kids to pay off......

Candidates you side with... 86% http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962406.png Gary Johnson Libertarian on economic, healthcare, immigration, domestic policy, science, and environmental issues 77% http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962427.png Mitt Romney Republican on economic, social, immigration, and domestic policy issues 69% http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/7750797.png Virgil Goode Constitution on economic and domestic policy issues 65% http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962388.png Barack Obama Democrat on social, science, immigration, and environmental issues 59%

^^ this. I watched their debate and he is quite possibly the worst public speaker I've ever seen. I think my 9yr old could have come across better.

what time is he due in? I need to be at Easton but don't want to get caught in a bunch of closed roads.