Slowbalt

As it is the largest collection of known information in existence I guess I would happen to agree with you.

So true, haha. I guess I am just thankful the the majority of the educated world still have value in debate. Here on Conservative Racing it's my way or the butt of my rifle regardless of anything and everything in the known universe.

My cousin jim bob has been abducted by aliens, and he told me they are capitalists so it must be true. I would ask that people stop attacking me ( you don't know me) and attack my arguments which are still undisputed. I find it strange I would need to explain this but I will try: Some people that live in the real world own computers. Some of these people talk back and forth on what we like to call the internet. When people talk and debate and decide on a topic, this information is readily availabe to others to be discussed and checked. When information goes through these checks and passes it is generally thought of as being fact. I have cited this information. What has anyone else cited? Rhetoric.

I am sorry that you have a problem determining my views about, life, law, and morality from the information I have provided. I have been employed since 14 and I have never had a gap in employment. Everything I own, I have worked to acheive so if you want to attack my character, at least get it right. You will find in this conversation much of the same hatred towards me as this room. Upon examination of this thread you will also notice that I was simply posting a way of resolving the issue of the OP while saving them money. I have never said that I deserve this and that. I deserve what I earn, just like everyone else. I am by no means hurting for a handout. There are however those that could use the help and sadly they do not have any power (that thjey realize) to champion thier cause.

Where you people get your info I have no idea but here are the infant mortality rates by country and why you are saying that African nations are lower than than US is just plain zainy. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html In case you needed some further help on HOW life expectancy is calculated, I would refer you here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy No, not really. I would say a combination of both is probably the best design we have come up with. I would like to see a little more Socialism sprinked through our Capitalism, not the removal of Capitalism and replacement of Socialism. uh....Taxes? I agree with this except for the idea of American Exceptialism. @ Tim I have provided CITED sources for my views and all you have provided is "real world knowledge" of mis informed people. I am not saying that your family is uneducated or anything like that, I am saying that the boogymen that concern them are largely fictious as has been reported and confirmed. I have been to other countries, quite a few in fact and I have seen how bad it is in other places. I am by no means saying the US sucks, I am saying we can make it better. We were founded on the ideas that the best ideas should be put into practice. Just because we live in the US does not itself make it better or more right than anywhere else. If you are going to argue, please do everyone a favor anfd argue with substance not' "some people say...."

I certainly can understand their concern if they BELIEVE these things however these are not facts as you and they report them to be. The majority of these concerns were covered quite some time ago as they were a fake email composed to circulate and drum up support to "kill the bill". See the following: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/30/chain-email/health-choices-commissioner-does-not-decide-your-h/ and a more "point by point" look at the email: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/ If all the things you are saying about healthcare were true, I'd be against it too. I would like SOMEONE in the know to show SOMETHING of fact. Maybe cite something? This isn't Obama but again, people HAVE TRIED attacking us within OUR borders and it wasn't the military that stopped them......../point See point above I am waiting for ANY facts really. I understand you have opinions about why he is so awful but it doesn't help your case when your opinions seem formed on things that are NOT TRUE. My point here is that if there are genuine reasons to not like Obama, I want to know because I have not found very many myself. Again you use the word fact when it is anything but. There are aspects of Capitalism that are good and help us to out-compete other countries. I am not disputing that there are good qualities to Capitalism. What I am saying however is that there are INHERENT problems that have been on paper for quite some time that we are seeing right now. (Corporate greed, lobbying, distribution of wealth) I have friends in Canada and have been there many times. I also like to talk politics with many people of different areas and belief systems. That being said I don't find many Canadians that HATE their system. There are problems with wait times (over exaggerated in many cases) but no system is perfect. Take a look at Canada's life expectancy rates.....80 years vs 78 n the US. Japan even one ups that at 82 years and guess what? Universal healthcare there too. If you would only look at the facts you may begin to see a different story. As I stated before you are basically equating Obama to Socialism and then saying why Socialism is bad. This is misleading X2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States Business are taxed at a few different levels in the US so it could be more or less than 35% based on the state but also have a few ways around them.

I completely agree with this. Obama is not going to be able to fix the real problems in this country because he is within the system that needs to change. We will not see change come from within the system, it must come from the outside. We must provide the change to the point where the government can do nothing but listen to us.

Thus proving my point. I prefer to throw words than fists. Some run out of words too quickly and they are only left with fists to throw.....

Plenty more to cover after a day off. It would seem we also have a misunderstanding of irony.....I guess we can just add that to the list, eh? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony Just posting up a link to the constitution and implying that I in some way have forgotten about it says nothing and proves nothing. But in a conversation about why we do not like Obama it is ironic that you mention the constitution as a reason you don't like him since he is a constitutional lawyer. Speaking of forgetting things part of that stimulus bill LOWERED taxes for 95% of the US. Socially liberal policies help to not only redistribute wealth but lower the difference between classes. This is important to keep from a rebellion of the lower classes against the upper. I'm glad that we agree on this point. There would definitely need to be some issues worked out but some level of mandatory military involvement would not be a bad idea. This would help to create a sense of service as well as discipline. As far as being a contributor to aid for the rest of the world, I am not sure why you are touting redistribution of wealth since that is a socialist idea and therefore must be "un-American". Regarding my comments about the military, I used incorrect verbiage stating that many are high school drop outs. For this, I apologize as the facts do not seem to support this but this does not change the facts that many lowlifes go to the military as a solution to their problems. To clarify to those that did not understand my remarks earlier, I am not saying that EVERYONE goes to the military because they have no better options, just that many do. I will further clarify that I appreciate the military's existence however I do not find that one is "doing something for the greater good" when they join the military for a paycheck and food. I do not feel the US military is doing a "good" thing by being involved in the current wars but I do recognize that not everybody serving believes this war is the "right" thing to do and they are stuck in this situation. Hindsight is 20/20. How you could possibly say that since there have been no successful attacks on the US (most unsuccessful one's were not foiled by the military but by the general lack of planning and execution of the terrorist, I remind you) this somehow proves we have prevented them by the US going into these countries and blowing shit up? Wiki leaks documents showed that because of the way we were handling things, there were increased attacks on us and more people joining extremist organizations. Furthermore our military has been illegally wiretapping and spying on us since at least the Clinton administration and we were STILL unable to prevent 911. This is a perfect example of the simple failures of our powerful and world dominating military and intelligence operation. None of this however speaks to reasons to dislike Obama so back on topic I want to confirm my understanding of why people hate Obama: = I don't know but I love to hate. = I prefer the rich to get richer and the poor to stay poor. = ? =I am misinformed but I heard he was a socialist and that is a bad thing. = I watch Fox News and do what they tell me. = I don't have anything to contribute but I heard we was hatin on Obamas. And finally of course: = I don't trust him because I do not agree with his economic policies and He is a Socialist and I am so in bed with the glory of Capitalism because Socialism is the devil and the issue is black and white. Now with all of that being said I would like to say Tim has been great arguing with and to address the Socialist idea I will provide this: http://http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0701/Is-Obama-a-socialist-What-does-the-evidence-say After reading this you may find this helpful as to explain WHY Obama feels the way he does about the redistribution of wealth. http://www.good.is/post/americans-are-horribly-misinformed-about-who-has-money/ Now after reading this I would recommend paying attention to the last line....I will repeat it here: "We're becoming a plutocracy" Plutocracy= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy And of course the wonders of capitalism: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674234/Citigroup-Oct-16-2005-Plutonomy-Report-Part-1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_Cargill http://government.cce.cornell.edu/doc/html/PrisonsPrivatization.htm Now as I final statement about all of this it would seem that most people are mad about the government intrusion into personal life or policies in general. This is completely understandable but one should direct these feelings accordingly. If you are angry about government polices, be angry with your representatives, lobbyists, and big business/ deregulated Capitalism in general. Just because Obama is the current "Man in the suit" as some have said, does not mean that he is the one behind everything that has gone on in the past 30- 40 years in politics. Thanks for sticking through such a ridiculously long post and hope you found it informative yet controversial.

Total ignorance. Kill them because they have differing views? Kill all that oppose us!

Obama can only chose from what is presented to him. He does not control what is in the bill. If the conservatives would have offered up reasonable ideas AND voted for them than the bill may have been different. So you agree that this is not a reason to dislike Obama? I do not agree with giving loans to people that can't make the payments. This is common sense but who is to blame for this? The people trying to get the loan I would think. Many people assume Socialism raises the rich to the levels of the poor. I simply do not find this to be the case. Doctors in Canada do just fine. They do not make as much money as a DR in the US but this can also be argued because their overhead is significantly less. If the only thing that encourages people to do anything is money, is that really the best system we can come up with? People did exceptional things well before it was financially rewarding to do so. I like to believe in humanity instead of the dollar. Many people on government programs are there because they CANNOT work. I am not saying that the system is not abused, it certainly is but there are many legitimate people that have been injured or have a condition where they are unable to work. A lack of understanding of Socialism is not a reason to hate Obama but a reason to despise the US media and the connotation it has attached to Socialism. The flip side of this is why would you not want to help those less fortunate? You use the term "force" but I would rather use the word "expected". It is the right thing to do and it is sad that the government has to "force" people to help the less fortunate. Are you or are you not against taxes? You can't have it both ways. Your argument for the nice things you have because of taxes is my argument as well. You choose to pay higher taxes for nicer things. I completely agree with this. In this society if we all stop contributing, things break down. I would like to see tax money used more efficiently and for the greater good. In terms of city taxes, I'm against Coleman's taxes as the money is being mismanaged and I won't get into that whole debate. He's another dumb fuck and no surprise which party he's in. Unlike your view I'm Not a Social-democrat or one that generally favors higher levels of taxation to fund public provisions such as universal health care or education, or welfare benefits. You do not see this as a problem because as you have stated it does not affect you. You are doing fine in this system so why care? It is a terrible thing when a company would rather make more profit than be concerned with your safety or the healthiness of the products it produces. I would recommend seeing the movie "Food Inc" if you have not. This is but one example of how Capitalism causes companies to make huge profits while literally shitting on everyone else. This is not what the US was founded on. Again, redistribution of wealth is taxation and something needed for our current society structure. I am not for "giving away the farm" or having people live off off welfare that don't need it, but these programs are in place for those that do. I concede that people take advantage of these programs and it would be a good thing to make them more efficient but that also costs money. To say that people will not be innovative unless there is money in it for them is negative thing to say but possible a true thing of current American society. The human race has had many accomplishments that did not have financial gain as a carrot. This is great and what everyone should do. I don't see that Obama has ever said or has the intention to have "poor people sponge off of the masses". It would seem to me that he is trying to bridge the gap between the haves and the have nots which grows larger every year. This is the road to a revolution.

Are you seriously trying to say that that they are uneducated? Obama: After graduating high school from Punahou School in Hawaii, Barack Obama attended Occidental College for two years, then got his B.A. from Columbia University. He later got his law degree from Harvard Law School (where he became the Harvard Law Review's first African American president), graduating magna cum laude. Obama was also a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. Then he ran for president in 2008. After the election in November 4, 2008 he was elected President of the United States. PELOSI: Democrat Nancy Pelosi became the Speaker of the House of Representatives on 4 January 2007. She is the first woman ever to hold the post. Pelosi graduated from Trinity College in Washington, D.C. in 1962, then married businessman Paul Pelosi and moved to his native San Francisco. She worked her way up through the state Democratic party before entering Congress after a special election in California's 8th District in 1987. The 8th District, which includes much of San Francisco, is considered one of the more liberal districts in the United States, and thus Pelosi has often been accused of extreme liberalism by her political opponents. She was named Minority Leader in November of 2002, becoming the first woman to lead a political party in the history of the U.S. Congress. After Democrats won control of the House of Representatives in the national elections of November 2006, she was elected Speaker of the House for the session beginning in 2007. Reid: Before his election to the Senate, Reid was a member of the United States House of Representatives, representing Nevada's 1st congressional district from 1983 to 1987. A native of Searchlight and graduate of Utah State University and George Washington University Law School, he previously served as city attorney of Henderson (1964–1966), a member of the Nevada Assembly (1969–1970), Lieutenant Governor of Nevada (1970–1974), and chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission (1977–1981) NRA Vice President, Wayne LaPierre, recently celebrated Senator Reid as “a true champion of the Second Amendment.” Now I will admit that I don't quite follow Pelosi or Obama on gun control. I think the decisions Obama made in Chicago regarding handgun bans are a bit much and no reason to limit gun purchases to 1 per month. Isn't this why the majority of Americans pick a president anyway? I was asking all kinds of people in November about who they were voting for and why that person. 1 in 5 had any ideas. Not that Columbus, Oh extrapolates out to the entire country but I would say it's pretty close. I voted for him because I want to see DADT repealed, Healthcare reformed, Education more consistently funded and while I have not seen all of these things just yet, he is only 2 years into his Presidency. In addition I voted no for McCain more than I voted yes for Obama. But why hate someone because of the people that voted for him? What does this even mean? Historically the left has ruined many things, haha. Letting politics dictate combat? When the nation is at war and the people that make the rules (congress) are elected by the people of the nation, shouldn't they have a say in who, why, or what we are blowing up? Another way of putting this would be the more fortunate helping the less fortunate. Isn't this what Jesus taught? We seem to have a very short memory of where we in fact did come from. It used to be that we helped each other out but since Capitalism has taken over its all about my money and screw you. Some do very well with this system, others do not. I have no problem with a portion of my money going to help those that are less fortunate. I do not believe that people should not have to work and leech off the system. If this is true than why are people so mad? The right seemed pretty content under Bush so no problem then, right? I would like to know where you got this information. I would assume that the President of the US has a team of economists working for him. Our military spending is by far larger than any other country. Maybe if we were not always invading other countries and blowing shit up all the time we wouldn't need to be paying all these highschool drop outs so much. I am not saying that all of the military or maybe even most of the military is not valuable, uneducated, etc just that MANY people with no better options join the military. I pay for this as well as everybody else here. We have been fighting people for 10 years now. Obama ordered additional troops so I don't understand how you could say he is a pacifist. I would want to avoid war wherever possible as it ruins lives and nations. What do we have to show for all the people that have died in Iraq and Afghanistan? This is the definition of stubborn. The values that started this nation was hardly what the right is looking for. The right wants a christian theocracy and that is exactly what the founders were against. Not to mention the recent cries from the right to CHANGE the 1st, 14th, and 17th amendments. I will agree however that democrats in general are too into using policy to change behaviors when it should be education.

That app may have been advanced task killer but your incredible is running android 2.2 I would not recommend it. There could be an issue with the phone or the battery as well as what others have mentioned but how long does it last from fully charged to dead?

But do you have proof? Oh yea, I forgot about that whole it isn't a fact until its proven thing..... Unless you are trying to be philosophical.....

Such ruthless hostility....I kinda like the passion Who was it that had a better plan? This is not an argument....period. Stuff costs money. Tax cuts cost money. Spending money surely CAN get us out of this economic slump. I am not agreeing with every penny that has been spent as I have already stated but for example I think it would be a good idea to invest in solar panel production right here in Ohio. We currently get most of our solar panels from China because they produce them the cheapest......Where is that good ol fashioned Capitalism to save us? Wait, thats what got us into this mess in the first place...... Again I ask what is so bad about Socialism? Here in the US it is a naughty word but many other countries live it and don't seem to despise it. Unbridled Capitalism is part of the reason we are having such a hard time and why we get shit on at the bottom so that people can make a buck on the top. If you are not for taxes who is to pay for education or the roads that we drive on, or the water we drink? Unless you are planning on going back to being a hunter/ gatherer society taxation is needed. I don't do bad at all in the game of life but I could certainly live on less if I had to. Sure I don't really want to give up more money but if I got more services out of it, than would that be so bad? How does free education or free healthcare sound? Capitalism has its good side as far as encouraging innovation and efficiency in the marketplace but it has it's downsides as well like the class society that we live in and corporate greed.

You have obviously missed the point of this thread. I am *requesting* that people explain their position on Obama and the administration in general. If you do not want to voice this info, you don't have to post. It really is that simple. You are right that I do not have an interest in alleged facts that are proven wrong, I am looking for why people genuinely do not like Obama. many peoples opinions are skewed by what Fox "news" and various conservative outlets have said which is false or misleading at best. Tim has been able to argue while maintaining respect and civility while many others have not. I am not arguing why everyone should like Obama, and I have said multiple times that I am not in love with him and do not agree with everything he does.

@ Tim I really appreciate you taking the time to post that up. This is exactly what I am looking for. As I said before, I do not totally buy into healthcare just the notion that it seems better for most but not all.

What "plan" are you referring to and who has a better one? I agree that a lot of the spending is inefficient or at least could be used for more good but man made problems require man made solutions. The majority of the stimulus were tax cuts but many people just refer to the total amount which hasn't even been spent. What do you find "socialistic" about his ideals? Further more why is this a bad thing? America could and maybe even ought to be a bit more "socialist". Taxation IS redistribution of wealth. I would see no issue with redistributing the millions of dollars that actors,athletes, and artists make and pumping that into our school system.

Some people are talking a lot but not saying much. I have not dismissed anything simply because it differs from my opinion but because it differs from the opinions of those who seem to have a better grasp of the issues than myself. The difference between myself and some of the others in this room is that my opinions are formed around fact hence the reason of the thread. I genuinely want to understand why people hate Obama. From everything I have seen, he is not the "best" president we have ever had but hardly deserves all the haters. Much of the "info" I have been given is flat out wrong and I have done my best to show why or that it is unrelated to Obama. I am still awaiting hearing more about the first hand negative impacts of Healthcare reform from Tim. In the political spectrum it would be very hard to place me. I am anti capitalism to a point, anti socialism to a point. I would consider many of my views to be more liberal leaning. Somewhere around Libertarian/eco-primitivist. I am: Pro choice "If someone doesn't want a kid, I don't want them to have one" Anti Gun control- The more the merrier....except in the case of rocket launchers, nukes, etc. Anti Death Penalty "If one innocent person dies, it's too many" Anti Big Business "They have the power and lobby the government to maintain it" Anti Big Government "I don't need the government telling me that I can't drink caffeine and alcohol" Anti Industrial Agriculture "You don't even want to know whats in Mcnuggets" Personally I would *almost* prefer to go back to being a farming society. As far as my impacts from changes in the government recently. I have received tax credits and absolutely no negative impact to my stature in society and I feel this says a lot even with how bad the economy has been. I get my information from many, many different news outlets as well as international forums that I read and participate in regularly. I am by no means an expert at many things but I am always learning and looking for new info. Any other questions?

Just because we do not agree does not make us both wrong. If you believe that he is a US citizen than what was the purpose of your "hide the birth certificate" statement? This thread is as productive as you make it and just like your "research" you have not put very much time or effort into it. Pdggp and El Karacho as well as others have offered insightful and helpful input as to their views and positions. This is considerable more than yourself. I have no problem with what anyone believes, I simply want to know WHY they believe it. Ignorant is having the ability to know but not taking the time. This is evident in your posting of various misleading and taken-out-of-context quotes. Poorly informed.....Certainly, see above. Racist.......the jury is out as I don't know you that well but you seem like a nice guy.

This is the type of information I am looking for. I read something that says its good, I read something that says its bad but the "why's" are never explained. I am looking for the cause and effect of why people say its bad for business. I have a feeling that a lot of these sentiments are drummed up by corporate lobbying. This isn't Obama's doing and the administration between hardly seemed to do anything but encourage it. Obama is trying to do something about it. If taxing is the right thing to do, I don't really know but at least he is trying. I completely agree with this and from what I have researched, it has lead to what I would call a hopeful view of Obama. I do not feel he is perfect or "the anointed one" but I certainly don't believe he is ruining the country or killing democracy. I am trying to find out why people are so anti Obama

Care to elaborate on this? Still seems to have nothing to do with hate of Obama. Sounds more like a dualistic hate of "the others". It would seem that someone needs to understand what "context" is. Your posted quotes in no way are persuasive. It is obvious that you WANT to dislike Obama and this is my prime reason for starting this thread. If Obama is to be hated, I will join you but I am reserved due to lack of arguments for all the "doomsday" talk that has been prevalent lately. I have no clue why you don't like Obama because he received political contributions like EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN! No I do not "get it". Because I have a crazy uncle you can tell no more about me than if I did not. I didn't vote for his brother or cousin and if they were running I would probably not vote for them. I watched it live.... But since you advocate searching for info I have done it for you. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp If you are looking to prove a point you really need to be more credible and pronouncing you dislike Obama because he is not a US citizen makes me laugh.....and cry. It sounds like you are doing all your research at Fox because it would certainly seem like you have either put all your "research" in one basket or have spent very, very little time. I I never said I agree with donations to politicians from corporations at least on an unlimited scale but to say you hate someone because he takes money for a campaign than you would be compelled to hate every politician, save maybe 2.

I see copperhead has decided to join us. Where is Scott? I'm sure he would love a piece of this action. I think that social security is a good idea but I would rather see the government encourage people to save money and give some sort of tax credit to those that do as they are providing for their own future.

Healthcare reform is a start but it is far from perfect. I do not see how the reforms put in place will in any way lead to "So down the road when your doctor is no longer in practice because of this and you have to instead see Dr. Johnny Workfornothing while waiting in a line behind a redneck with no job, six kids, having a smoke and a beer outside while his fat ass wife eats a candy bar she bought with food stamps, thank Mr. Obama." This is a bit overly dramatic. Here is the healthcare reform info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_reform_in_the_United_States It covers more people and reduces the deficit so I don't see what is so bad about it or how it is going to kill the market. It is hardly Canada's system which is wildly criticized by those who do not understand it/ have access to it. As for the person who introduced medicare to Canada I have never seen anything other than rumors about him refuting it and Canadians seem to revere him. Companies have been going over seas well before Obama got into office so I don't see how that is his fault, nor the economy in general as it was heading south before he took office. If I remember correctly under the Bush administration companies were given tax credits for moving jobs overseas. The current Democrats are trying to pass a bill that will tax companies that send jobs overseas as opposed to giving them additional tax breaks. Obama seems to be all about education or at least he talks about it a lot. I have not seen any decent policy surrounding it and I would definitely like to see more focus on education as this is probably the single most important issue we face. I find this as a fault of Obama. @Nurkvinny I don't even know where to start with this smothering of Fox News propaganda but I will do my best. "communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids" - Senator Barack Hussein Obama This is about 1/8th of the sentence which the entirety is listed below: Senator Obama: "When communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids, when nursing mothers are torn from their babies, when children come home from school to find their parents missing, when people are detained without access to legal counsel, when all that is happening, the system just isn’t working, and we need to change it." This does not seem like an unreasonable statement and I would agree with it. "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites" - Senator Barack Hussein Obama This link here actually covers a few of these quotes in one swoop: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp "I will stand with them (Muslims) should the political winds shift in an ugly direction." - Senator Barack Hussein Obama - He took the 2nd largest chunk of money from Fanny and Freddy. This actually depends which info you are looking at but I don't see this as a reason to hate Obama....This is how politics works. Here is the full list. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html - Google "Abongo "Roy" Obama" I have no clue what this has to do with Obama, haha. Everyone has some crazy uncle that is shunned by the family. - Or Google his cousin Odingo. See above comment - Why hide his birth certificate? This is just silliness here. Chris Mathews held up a copy on the air! He was born in Hawaii dude. Come on. "Meh. I have spent too much time over the months explaining this shit. People need to research for themselves. I have lost count how many people have asked me "what's so bad about him or Dems"? After 10 minutes, their reply is usually, "wow, I didn't know that" or, "I don't follow politics"." This statement from someone who has not researched their own quotes? hmmmmm..