99StockGT

Right right I get that but what's the difference between doing this in a "Supra" and doing it in a "Challenger" aside from the shell? There's not really any Supra left to it when you've replaced the engine/transmission/rear end with 'Merica parts, and Motec is providing all the wiring/computers/gadgets. Kinda like the Camry in NASCAR... exactly how much is still Toyota?

NO shit huh? Was mining a "couple a week" back when they were trading for $16 per? If he kept that up for a year and had the foresight to hold onto them.. *low slow whistle*

So... Import racer apparently just decided to Muscle Car his Import body? Basically do all the things the 'merican fans have been doing since the 60s/70s just with a more JDM Yo! bodystyle wrapped around it? Bleh

It really is incredible looking at the progression we have seen in production cars. In the muscle car era of the late 60s early 70s you had big displacement high torque street machines that could destroy a tire in a cloud of smoke and maybe shoot to something akin to 13s on the street. The 80s were worthless for the most part except for a few slightly shining examples of turbo usage but rarely a production car that could break into the 13s. The 90s we saw the rise of the imports, more turbo usage with better tech, a bit of rebirth in the muscle car era as we inched closer to that 300hp factory car again. 13s could be had but still not very common. As we roll into the 2000s things seem to shift. It's become something akin to a nuclear arms race for power/performance/numbers. Tire technology improves immensely allowing cars to actually USE their big power numbers for something other than a smoke show. 2010s Computer technology and tuning have greatly improved allowing more to be done with less. Decades of turbo experience and greater understanding of boost applications allow the arms race to continue. Basic LS and Coyote motors begin getting simple bolt on kits talented wrenches can do in a weekend at home become more common. Power numbers that used to be reserved for a "Blown or Sprayed Big Block" can now be had with some tuning, 2 small snails, and some piping. The big manufacturers get in on the game, supporting and encouraging these developments feeding the beast as we pursue greater and greater production numbers. Looking back just a decade, 375awhp could rocket me easily into the 12s with an aggressive launch and give me a fighting chance against most anything from a stoplight. Unfortunately the next step up the performance ladder is injectors, new ECU, new turbos, new intercoolers, then likely shortly after that a transmission/transfer case upgrade. Easily costs eclipsing $10,000 something I just couldn't justify for another 150awhp when I could stand my ground as is. However now... It feels almost like we've pushed this "Sport" to a level that's on the edge of impossible. So in a world where 600+ hp mustangs/corvettes/camaros roam the streets, where minivans come with 300+ hp and can run 1/4 times in the 15s where once your production V8s roamed less than 20 years ago...where does it go from here? A nod to the things we are seeing out of the electric/hybrid world. Capable of sprints of the showroom floor that simply ludicrous. But, back to the topic at hand. Those of you who are yourselves, or know someone competitive currently what's it take for an invitation to the dance? Is running a mid 11 on a "street tire" competitive in the world we've built? Is most of it roll racing or are we doing digs on side streets and industrial parks? Hep me build this thing right and not waste money!

I believe Sir, that's called liquid courage

Oh I fully intend to make sure my first launch in this thing doesn't take me straight into a wall or another car. The entire reason I'm doing it with the '68 and not the '70 is it's basically stripped down already and needs paint/body/suspension/engine work already. Starting with something used abused and put away wet I'm not going to feel bad about replacing all the worn out original stuff with new fancy improved (and safer!) gear. Built motor, transmission, all new front suspension/steering, rear suspension, the biggest best tires I can get in each corner and at least a partial cage to try and keep me alive. Frame supports and upgrades are all a part of the package, never build something your platform simply can't handle.

Congrats man! Doing what you love every day is the way to enjoy life!

Uh huh... Tesla announces new 1.9 sec 0-60 roadster... 8.9 in the 1/4, $200,000 so right in "Supercar" range... same time announces the Tesla Semi aimed at the transportation market once thought ruled by Cat/Cummins/Etc for all time.. Meanwhile in the ME, Yemen is days away from nearly total starvation, Lebanon is teetering with the "retirement" of their Prime Minister. Saudi's have had some extremely interesting "corruption crackdown" arrests in the past few weeks, consolidating power for the crown prince as his assent to power nears... complete with a very odd helicopter crash in the middle of the desert taking out a possible rival. Syria looks like it will very shortly be back under the control of the Assad regime, Iran has now shipped and launched missiles from Yemen and will shortly be launching several new rockets of short and medium range able to hit anywhere interesting As the world turns...

Completely agree with modern hardware and tuning you can easily get many platforms to the 700whp range but that doesn't mean it's something they can make go fast and straight. For instance, at our latest CR track day at 42 you had Hellcats there with pulley/spray/tune that are pushing WELL north of 700whp, on slicks, and on a prepped surface doing everything they could to claw into the 9s. Different drivers, different cars, and I believe only 1 of them just barely dipped into the 9.8s. What would that driver/car be able to do on a street pull? 11s and a cloud of tire smoke? Roll racing on the loop? Sure that could be an option, it's far easier to hook and book from a 30 roll than from a stoplight/tree. But even there, when you punch something with that much raw power the rear can/will step out still. I'm battling that same issue on the Phlegm '70 as it is, can't imagine what that's going to be like with double the whp.

Now you KNOW I'm a C&C Fan/Member/Attender/Supporter/Whatever and that Saturday has certainly filled a void in the automotive community that's more Carshow than Race meet. Which is a GOOD thing! The same general attitudes we see there brought to more of the racecar/cruiser atmosphere would be excellent.

You have a very valid point Sir, most of us who fall in/around that age seem to be in a state of disconnect when it comes to the car culture. When I go to hotrod shows I'm 99.8% of the time the youngest person who brought one (I'm in my late 30s) and you rarely see people there younger unless they are kids brought by their parent/grandparent. Show at a 614 Street Meet and you will find a smattering of all sorts of types, most of which are more braggarts than anything else. It's almost nothing but shit talking and aggressive walking around. The friendly conversations and "Hey Nice Ride" stuff isn't what the culture is about at those. You also typically don't have anything beyond the BPU crowd that I've seen at those kinds of events lately. I think both of these issues play to the point we are discussing. The "Old Guys" don't want to bring their muscle/classic out because they are in the 60s+ and it's after 8pm, they also typically aren't pushing the kind of power necessary to stay up with modern tech. The "Young Crews" are more about talking down, tossing insults, and mostly modifications that are for looks/height than outright power that it takes to get into "The Game". So somewhere, in a well lit parking lot in a nicer area of town there's a group that keeps the old ways alive. They appreciate each others rides and the work/money/blood that's gone into making them what they are. They put down more power than most people can handle, sometimes bordering on the terrifying. They need a barely legal street tire, and know how to use it. Wher is THAT "Parking Lot"?

It's sad to me that in an era of incredible social networking capabilities things like this aren't a natural fit. Aside from a few car clubs I'm involved in on the business side the great "car community" AKA groups like 614 are absolutely terrible examples. Had a bit of this conversation with some people the other day over drinks, how is it we have become LESS connected with other enthusiasts over the past 10 years when all of us are walking around with permanent connections in our pockets?

How many of those people are "Street Cars" and how many are street cars? Being able to drive something that puts down those kind of numbers and can squirt through a 1/4 in 8-9 seconds on the streets is bordering on insanity. We've pushed these platforms to the point where you loose a lot of the fun of racing and it's more of a controlled terror experiment. At least, in my personal opinion. The "I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" isn't totally inaccurate here, even when "slow car" still puts down 500+ HP and shoots through a 1/4 in less than 11 seconds. You get to experience the sensations, maybe even look to your left or right to see how it's going not just tunnel vision hold the peddle down and white knuckle it straight.

I already HAVE cars that are fun to drive, don't need to spend $XX,XXX building another one. I want to build something exciting and competitive with the "Big Dogs" around here.

It's not so much the run for cash thing as the just have the fun and rush of competition then maybe a beer after. Not sure how we went from friendly spirited contests as a group to "Ohh burnnnnn" "Gapped Yo Ass!" kind of culture but personally the time spent talking/BSing about what we have done and plan to do is a big part of the fun. Certainly not looking to go out looking for a Street Fight every night or even every weekend, but it would be nice to know there are people out there putting it down on the street still. Is most of it roll racing on the loop? Random 670/71/70 encounters? Or are we doing the late night commercial park these days? Pacemakers will certainly be in the cards, made it to a couple events this year and had a good time and saw some pretty bad ass rides. Really like the feature of having to drive from the track into town and back for those wanting to compete, gets rid of a lot of the total racecars I imagine. So question on the "Cab", when it was out did you find yourself lining up with people for legitimate runs or was it mostly just spur of the moment punches against something expensive/modified? That's probably an excellent power level for the car to still be reasonable to drive but terrifying enough to keep you sane/sober. Is there a FB Group thats ABOVE the 614 Car Scene group of misfits that actual drivers with actual cars use? Inquiring minds need to know!

This could make for an excellent short film Underground AutoX Exposed!

Will definitely be attending some UFO events this coming year, balancing all the weekend activities plus all the shop responsibilities can be a bit tricky. But will have the Fox out with you all next year at least a few times for sure! So back to the subject at hand.. Playing in the Streets... Or are there some super secret illegal AutoX races I'm missing out on?

Oh I've flung a few things that weren't built for it around AutoX courses, hell I ran the 92 RT/TT all season with the Miata club! But once one of these things can complete a turn without having to use reverse we'll see No it's not the phlegm colored one, that's my DD There's another sitting in the back that is currently in the engine build process that should be ready for spring

Ahhh AutoX is a whole different ball game! Didn't see that, thought maybe they were stepping into the dragracing game. Not flinging a 600hp muscle car around cones, that shit ain't happenin! Even still, most AutoX events are a full day or most of one, get to the track by 8am, leave around 4pm. I need more instant gratification in my life! Lights green, GO! Win! Yay! Beers and wings!

Sounds interesting, where are they going to be running? While this isn't something that's PC to say... track events take planning and commitment. Essentially that's an entire day or weekend I need to devote to making sure the car is ready, loading up, getting there, prep, racing, breaking down, packing up, driving back home... Part of what's nice about playing on the streets is that instant gratification then on with your day

Well yes I get that, and I don't expect to get anything more than 10 cents on every dollar I spend on the build back if/when I sell it. Question is will such a thing be competitive in the racing world we see now, or am I spending 5 digits on a motor build to finish in 9th out of 10?

I'll admit I was actually kind of excited to see them go that direction if they could market it properly and sell the value with being able to build tuning/upgrades into your payment schedule. Unfortunately it seemed like a good idea gone bad last time I was over in that area. It's not hard to look around and find a failed "speed shop" or two in the history of Columbus.

Man I need to start paying attention here when I'm not randomly at my desk in the shop! Lots to read and respond to! So, yes my original comment was about where the big dogs actually communicate/play now since clearly CR has moved on from that era. Which is fine, just curious. 614 Car Scene is... yeah... trash talking kids with cars stuck together with bubblegum for the most part. I made one post in there last year with my RT/TT fueling up at the pump wanting to see who would be out to play that night and got a "Nice 4x4" comment, followed by a "That's some sexy wheel gap" comment, then a whole lot of noise. Granted its not the fastest thing out there in a 1/4 but in an 1/8 or stoplight to stoplight it'll hold its own against damn near anything. Freeway fun is 80% of what I get involved in these days, but even that has dropped down a ton in the last decade. Fewer and fewer cars/drivers are interested anymore, too busy checking their Facebook feed or Tindr matches while driving. Working in the Dublin/Plain City area there are more than a few chances to make a little pull against some nice stuff but the typical "loop battles" that were common in the past seem to be very much IN the past. One of the reasons I left CR years ago was the whole marked car/jail/tickets/ass fucking situation I was trying to avoid. Hence my several year disappearance from CR and the stealth going into storage. In that time, the east side Hoosters meets where we would all be able to hang out talk shit then go play have obviously died, replaced with... late night shady parking lot get together with people who don't have cars/money? Yuck. On the Pro-Mod/"Street Car" subject, anything I can't get in, run over to Wendys, and roll through the drive through is completely uninteresting to me. Tube chassis, fiberglass/carbon bodies, plastic "windows" or nets... that's not something street driven and not at all fun to me. Now, I will fully admit the cost of entry is almost insane these days to get to where you will be competitive on the track but is it REALLY that bad on the street? Are those 1000+ HP TT LSwhatevers actually being street driven and hooking up? I've seen story after story of the Hellcat twins barely running low 10s or scratching into the 9s and that's on spray/pulley/tune on a prepped track. Surely they aren't doing better than high 10s low 11s on the street? 550-600 all motor HP and somewhere north of 650tq is easily attainable and going into a 3300lb chassis. With a good suspension setup a whole lot of barely street legal tire, and a rather decent driver I have to believe that would still be competitive on the street. Or am I completely out in left field and shoveling money into a campfire?

Anyone know how their performance wing is going?

Completely agree with both of you, removing the addict from the environment they are in plays a huge role in giving them a fighting chance to remain clean. I have several people in my life from my younger days who have completed multiple "tours" in the prisions/hospitals but once they get out they take a step back into their old crew and its over with.