Moto-Brian

He's saying what a few of us have already stated. The trade was really pretty fair. The price on the CBR1000 is as good as how many they can get. Dealerships get an allocated amount of bikes. Usually, OEMs attach a number of allocated units based on what particular unit they bought the year prior. Probably how many CBR1000s HNW bought in 2007. If like most shops, the CBR isn't a great seller and so, they didn't buy as many as they did in 2006... With that said, HNW's allocation isn't as high as what SH gets considering the number of units they sell. All dealers pay the same dollar amount for each unit. Some get special colorways (Powersports dealers), but outside that, they pay the same. A few bonus deals here and there, but essentially, it all is the same. So, if HNW only gets a handful of 1000s and they know it is going to be a hot bike, why would they want to give it away? Let's say they get 10 total. There are three colors they can get as the one colorway is for Powersport dealers only... That's 3 of each and a 4th of one... So, if you feel they suck and they aren't willing to work on a deal, I can guarantee they will sell the remaining inventory they have to someone else. It's a tough pill to swallow in that regards as many will say "Why would they want to not deal with someone in fear of losing them as a customer", but honestly, the 10 CBRs they have will sell to 10 people who WILL be customers. So, moral of the story and bottom line to this thread is that telling others that HNW sucks and to F' them and not go there simply because they offered a legit trade on a used 2007 ZX10 and was asking retail for a bike they probably don't have many of isn't really fair... It is a public forum, of course, but slamming someone w/o merit is read by MANY people. Out of those MANY people, quite a few may make judgement and not visit HNW who in this case, really hasn't had a chance to defend the accusations...

I'm shocked... Southern Honda is selling the CBR1000 for $10042 out the door total. You pay local tax where you are from... That's not as great as i thought it would be, but is certainly better than most will see. Of course with the price of gas and the fact you need a truck to haul it back or a car to drive back and the bike itself, you'd add $250-$300 to that easily. For me, it would be like $400 with a diesel truck... So, $10,350 before tax. That's $1100 off. Of course, your time is worth something as you are going to spend about 15 hours on the road total. Plus at least an hour if lucky there. Call it 16 hours for arguement's sake. Overall, they are using their hold back as what they make. The theory is that they are turning units quickly to avoid floor plan costs. So, in a round about way, they probably make the same as a guy who doesn't discount as much. The catch is that they need to get the units in and ask for at least a two day's notice before you travel down. That tells me they have an off site that they need to get the units from. They are the top Honda dealer in the US, I believe and they are known as the whores in the industry. So, save $1100, but drive two days worth of work... I'd do a deal where a shop would discount the bike to drop $800 off to avoid driving that far. That price is pretty legit to ask for from a shop...

Did your buddies buy big bikes or do the CRF deal they usually do each season?

Overall, a GOOD dealership should always approach customers and be able to help them as soon as they arrive. That's a give me. However, I also think a buyer should be 100% educated. Often times, I find myself more informed about what I am looking at than the salesman. That's something that shouldn't happen all the time, but they do have to learn a LOT of products... BUT, the buyer being educated means they research the prices they find via the internet. Evaluate how far you'd drive for what dollar amount. Walk into a shop, pick a salesman that fits you as a buyer. If they suck and don't know much, ask for another one. It's pretty easy and honestly, the ill informed salesman might realize they need to work a little harder. Anyways, find one that works for you and be up front with them. If you are expecting them to give you the lowest price ever recorded, forget it. The utopia idea is that they make as much as they can on every unit. They know that's a falsehood, but they aren't going to give it away right off. If you offer them an amount, make sure it is legit. $8k for a bike that retails for $10,500 is stupid. You'll be laughed at right as you walk out. Another thing is to make sure prices you get are COMPLETELY OUT THE DOOR prices. Include ALL fees and taxes. If out of state, ask what dollar you need to write on the check to take it home. Understand that tax will be added once you do the title transfer or register it in your state. So, if out of state, remember the local dealer will include tax in their price... Also realize that it will cost you money to drive and the dealer understands that. If you are going to spend $100-$200 in fuel costs, that is a dollar amount that can easily be added to the deal and you'd be even as far as pricing. In other words, Southern Honda sells the bike for $1200 and HNW is asking $1500, it is going to cost you $200 in gas to get to SH and back. So, if they drop it to $1300, it is the same deal... Just be educated. And, if a dealership doesn't do it right, then maybe think it over before you go and post telling everyone to avoid the place just because they didn't do the deal you were hoping for. Like in this case, he was offered a fair amount on trade and the price was legit. Now, if he were serious and was sitting down and ready to sign papers, i bet they would have reduced or negotiated more. Too often, people only price shop and aren't serious. It's hard to tell the difference at times. Whatever the case, this thread isn't needed and seeing that it was kinda blown out of proportion, I think it shows that the buyer wasn't quite prepared enough...

Don't use bondo on ABS plastic. SlowBusa had it right - to do it right, you need to plastic weld it back together to avoid cracking. Bondo will crack as the ABS isn't the best choice for using Bondo on. You can and get away with it, but the best way is to plastic weld and then repaint using proper amounts of flex agent in the paint... Or, just buy a set off Ebay and be done with it. The amount of hours, the fact that getting it painted will cost a good deal of coin, you can probably pick up a set for under $700 for that bike online...

Joe Rocket has the worse seam structure of any glove. They will blow out once you touch the ground and the leather is very thin. Even w/o crashing, they don't even last me a season. The palms wore and the seams started to let go. Rocket is the lowest quality guys out there for the price. AStar is one of the best. Out of what was suggested, AStar is the best choice. Try stuff on, though. They run kinda small...

Honestly, both bikes are looking pretty good. Get to ride the new ZX10 in June at Grattan, maybe sooner, but overall, I think the Honda is looking to be the best choice. Well, if you can get by the looks (which are growing on me...).

Got a new one lined up. It is the 19.5" frame. I'm 6'1" and it works great for me... I also have EVERY manual for it. Including the shock, forks, XTR components, bike itself, etc...

You can't get a 2008 ZX10 for $8k. There isn't one for $8K (Total before fees as the whole freight and prep and assorted fees are what I refer to) anywhere. Even so, the CBR retails almost $1k more than the ZX10 so, it is a deal where you'd need to expect it for $1k more anywhere else... I'd research S. Honda's deal. I have no idea how they pull it off seeing that it is below dealer cost and taps into their hold back. I'll see and report...

Once you add what they call Freight and Prep and assorted fees, that number is higher. Plus, Southern Honda is known for below dealer pricing, but they tack on fees and you'll wait at least a few hours in getting everything done and rolled out. Plus, you'd then need to pursue the whole tax thing as they don;t do that for you. I'll research this and do a quote and see what the total ends up being. They are known for their killer deals, though...

Oh, and the CBR is $11600 and the dealer cost is NOWHERE near $8k. It's most likely at best at $9700... I bet in a few months, you'll see them at $10999 or thereabouts, but nothing even remotely close to $9700...

Hold on, Tiger... I know you are passionate about your ZX10, but realize some things here. -First, you can buy a new left over ZX10 all day for about $9-$9300. Used for about $8500-$9000... -Second, if they offered you $8k, that's really fair considering the left over bikes available (HNW owner owns the shop in Cleveland and they have Kaws there so, they know the prices...) and the fact that IF they can get $9k asking price, that's typical used bike margins... -Third, find a dealer that will sell a 2008 CBR1000 for more than $500-$800 off retail and you need to play the lottery. They're brand new and really, until they sit a while, probably not going to see a whole lot of deals... If you look at a new 2008 ZX10, you're looking at $10,400. Not a lot of negotiating on those, either, but you can find deals. The 2008 makes your bike not only a year old, but a generation model older. That's not what you want to hear, but honestly, $1k-$1500 between generations is pretty common. That makes your bike worth about $9k. Think about this - you can sell your bike for $9k. Maybe more to a buyer who doesn't do any research, but you'd have time involved and an assortment of people looking it over and such. A dealer needs to make money and $1k - $1500 isn't much...

I have a Trek STP (Soft Tail Pro) 200 mountain bike up for sale. Now, there were three levels of STPs that Trek made. All had the same OCLV (Carbon Fiber based frames) frames, but different components depending on what level they were. The STP 400 was the top shelf. The STP 300 was the middle guy and the STP 200 was the entry level one. All are considered XT or trail racers. It isn't a full suspended racer or down hill bike, but it is much more forgiving than a hard tail. If you ride at Delaware and those trails, an XT is the way to go. Too many big inclines for a full supended bike. If you ride a full suspended bike, you set the rear pretty stiff so you don't fight it so much... Anyways, I decided on the STP 200 due to purely the colors. I was going to build the bike anyways so, the frames were my only choice. I hated the wine red STP 300 and really didn't dig the black clear STP 400. So, I took the base model and made it better than the top shelf one. If you added it all up, I had almost $5k in this thing. Here are some highlights in terms of add-ons... -XTR THROUGHOUT! Front crank, arms, shifters, brakes, rear derailers, front drailer, etc. COMPLETE. Typically, bikes are XTR and XT combined to save cost. This is 100% XTR... -Thomson seat and bar posts. Billet machined... -Carbon fiber bars. -SID Racing rear shock -Fox Vanilla Float 100 RLC forks with adjustable travel and fully adjustable with lock out... -Mavic wheel set. Tubeless, but I run tubes in case I puncture on the trails. -Michelin tires -Frame is OCLV and has a lifetime warranty. Candy Blue Clear with orange accents. -Haro traditional pedals SPARES: -Set of wheels with choice of tires. Blue anodized with low spoke count. Bontrager's (sp?) -Time Carbon clip-in pedals. Big bucks, but I hate clip-ins when riding trails... -Wireless computer. I think that pretty much covers it. Was thinking $1500 obo... Here's some pics: Frame color:

They have some really well established class structures. 1000s, 600s, Moto-ST, and Liter bikes in Superbike set-up that require a factory to provide four riders to be eligable. That's an instant 16 minimal factory riders on a grid if the big four attend. That's more than ever before and the way it should be. Spec tires will ultimately be Dunlop. With Goodyear supporting NASCAR, it only makes sense they are in the motorcycle side of things. Plus, most teams run them anyways... It will be more equal footing amongst the teams and riders will make the difference in winning or losing. Not so much the team and bike. Not that Spies and Mladin couldn't win on a Honda, it is just that Suzuki is pretty dominant on the grids...

Race suspension or track suspension uses a racing 5W oil. So, if it has 5W, that's right. However, the amount or level could be dead wrong... As far as springs, springs can be fine, but if the valving is stock, it may be needing changed. I can get you to two guys that can turn it around quickly, but not 100%. If you need someone to look it over really close, I'd take it to Jason at Department of Suspension as he's the guy usually at Mid-Ohio with STT. Jason's pretty damn good. Tell him I sent you. His website is: http://departmentofsuspension.com/ Contact him Monday and see if he can set you up for first thing in the morning at the track to help start out a setting that may work. I can help you by looking it over, but it sounds like you are dealing with sorted internals not doing their jobs right... You could ship it to Jason and get them bolted up at the track. You can secure a bike with a front stand that goes under the triple tree (Pit Bull style) and get it there easy enough... Or, I can talk to one of my buddies and have you ship it to him and he can bring it to the track. The other guy would have to ship it back to you and that would be EXPENSIVE to do it all in a span of 4 days... By the way, nobody local is any good at sorting suspension... Well, the right way...

Uh... They are WANTING the classes to have more equal footing. In other words, it isn't much to teh interests of the factories that AMA racing is essentially the Suzuki Cup. Parity as seen in WSBK and other race orgs shows that more equal rules and the allowance of more factory machines builds better racing. Oh, and if spectators aren't a concern, guess what happens? The series goes "bye-bye". Sponsors of the series have left due to lack of return. If you don't think spectators are important, you really don't understand the result of not having any... Nobody enjoys knowing the results before they get there... Right now, they do. The Daytona Group will be HEADS and SHOULDERS above what the AMA was doing or ever would have done. You may not like NASCAR, but the competition amongst the factories and the amount of spectator and sponsorship that exists in NASCAR is astronomical. This isn't NASCAR trying to organize motorcycle racing. They will take what works and try to implement it into the series, but overall, the results are going to be MUCH better...

Turbos are not very streetable for bike applications. For drag racing and top speed competitions, yes. Street? No. Dave Webber from down south has been trying to get a GSXR1000 with a turbo dialed in for a few years to be used in road racing. The lag is just too much for it to be easy to ride. Turbos come on much like a two stroke and just make them a little hard to deal with. Build up boost and letting go is fine, but for anything where throttle management is needed (street or road race), it just doesn't make sense. Again, a Superstock build (much cheaper) will net you better streetable results. The power may not be 200-270 (70 HP difference is a big deal on a motorcycle...), but you could expect 180-190 and that is probably conservative if they are truely getting 170-190 from simple bolt ons... If you want fast, just get that down to Broc's shop and have them do the pipe, PC and dial it in off the dyno. It's more than enough now, but will be more after and actually be a little easier to ride...

The 07s are the same as the 08s. So, when I was refering to 08s, it was new retail to new retail... Anyways, the newer motors are easier to make power and they are much better in terms of performance. It had nothing to do with streetability as to why they changed the motor. Again, these bikes are designed more and more for racing and street application comes second. The new motors are better...

Video cannot be seen. Anyone have a shot of them doing this on the brake side? I still think it may be a fluke deal that a guy does it, but honestly, you don't place your foot under the lever so, it shouldn't happen like on the shifter side...

BMW finally makes a bike that doesn't look like a turd. You'd think a performance oriented company could make such a bike much earlier in their existence... Anyways, many people thought this as a prototype (Been in prototype form for over 3 years) for BMW's entry into MotoGP. However, it has always been slated for WSBK. Here's a good video walk around of the bike. Should be a good platform and I am sure as long as they can get a good rider with great set-up skills (Not many that aren't locked into contracts), it should go well... http://youtube.com/watch?v=v33Svi_AyP4

Showin' some age here, but: - first street bike was an 87 Hurricane. Bought in 1989 used. -1986 FZ600. Bought in 1989 used. -1990 FZR600. First newly purchased bike in 1990. -1992 F2 - first race bike. Bought used in 1993 -1995 F3 - race New -1997 F3 - race New -1998 ZX6R - race New - (2)1999 ZX6Rs - race New - (2) 2000 ZX6Rs - race New - (2) 2001 ZX6Rs - race New - 2001 GSXR750 - race Salvaged - 2003 GSXR750 - race Salvaged -(current) retired GSXR750 - race and track days salvage Hopefully, a 2007 GSXR coming soon for track beatings...

What didn't?

Ok, a few things. I have worked in the helmet industry for over 8 years and a few things. One, the EPS or inner foam liner can look fine from inside, but where it is up against the outer shell can be crushed. Helmets are designed to absorb energy and to do that, they disperse that energy outward. In other words, it's like a dropped bomb onto the earth. The impact crater is where the impact was, but the ripples go outward to keep your head from absorbing the impact 100%. So, most likely, from mirror height, it has sustained some damage. Now, if you ride on it again and it does have damage, but you can see the inside looks fine, that area where the initial impact occurred is now thinner than before. So, if it sustains another impact in that area, the EPS is thinner and will not absorb and distribute the energy as well and your head will receive more of the impact directly. Thus, causing injury. Point is simple. If you are under a time crunch, lesson learned - don't do things that put you in a bind. Take the time and ship the helmet out to the manufacturer and have them test it. Most do it free of charge. You need to contact them and get the info as to where to send it. An X-ray machine is most likely not going to see the impact area. Maybe it will and someone in radiology can tell us if it will see the shell and inner EPS well enough to distinguish issues. Overall, it can look fine, but be damaged between the shell and liner. The shell is already compromised and if the EPS liner is, it is going to be an issue later. What's your head worth?? Another note is whether it is thermoplastic or fiberglass/composite. Thermo shells will crack pretty bad. Fiberglass/comp shells will absorb impact much better and flex a ton more. However, when they flex, they allow the EPS to absorb more effectively... Get it checked.

If I don't answer, leave me a message and I'll throw them in the car for next week's visit to Pony...

No prob. I used to do it when I was racing, but I hit my foot one time and I stopped doing it. I think I was moving too slow and it hit. Sat the bike up and I actually lost a championship over it!! Nelson Ledges circa 2003...