Moto-Brian

You actually weigh the outside pegs at lean to stabilize the machine. Don't weight the inside or dragging peg... You are essentially pushing the bike outwards and away from yourself if you weigh or push on the scrapping peg...

I think he isn't far off, but not explaining it well. There is a gyroscopic effect that occurs. The gyroscopic effect wants the bike to stand up straight while leaned over. Without your (rider) control, the bike will tend to stand up. I think that is the idea you are referring with the belly pan gyros in some bikes... The effect is always at hand and wanting to be working against the rider. As for trail, he is correct. Kinda... He is saying that the front end's trail is what determines stability. He is correct. Get it wrong and the bars slap like a pissed off girlfriend. Get it right and the bike is stable. But, trail alone isn't the end all. The rear DOES cause issue with handling. You can add or reduce trail with rear ride height. He's trying to say everything is related to the front only and not the rear. Steering or maintaining that angle of trajectory can be done via the rear wheel. At VMD this year, I was having what I felt was rear wheel traction issues. I took away preload. The bike and the chassis setup I run with had been greatly changed and the handling was changed for the worse. Before, the rear did spin and I was able to maintain the line and exit on drive. While it was spinning, it was still gripping to a point for my riding style, was working. When I took away preload to try and get a bit more squat and "traction" from hook up, I did just that. However, the bike would want to stand up and run wide. It was understeering badly. It was leaving blackies on drive and wanting the bike to stand up quickly before finishing the turn. Therefore, it kind of goes against what this guy is saying. You CAN steer with the rear and you can also have TOO MUCH steering with the rear. Point is that what he is saying is mixed up and using several different ideas rolled into one. This is the issue with these so called "experts" that put info out to the general public. It's too easy and often what really gets me pissed off, a newbie rider that is VERY green takes these bits of info and gets all kinds of confused or I see people that are teaching or instructing that take the info and spread it as if it is accurate. Our issues are bad enough in just getting riders to ride in a manner that is safe and advancing. Let alone giving them info that if applied to their bikes, can cause serious issues and put them further back of the line...

DUDE!!! That is freakin awesome!! I just laughed out loud in front of everyone!

You are talking a total of 2 hours more round trip vs renting which will be in the range of $1500-$2000 I would think. For 2 extra hours driving, for $15 until your arms fall off, it makes better sense. And, the track is better... Point is that you have mentioned budget to no end on this venture and yet you are willing to rent a kart track for an entire day that you'll never run for that period of time or get up early and drive an extra hour to get to a better track to only pay $15 for the entire day. The 2 hour round trip difference in fuel is going to be easily offset by the $15 charge. Even if the track rental is $500. You'd need 33 guys to get that $15 amount covered out of pocket...33 guys at that size track will net you the same amount of track time if you shared every 20 minutes rotation with karts. Probably less actually as 33 guys cannot run that together... And again - you'll never ride enough to warrant the dollar amount. I'm not busting balls - just trying to help you out, but these things are no different than guys that say it is worth spending the extra money to travel to tracks down south. The amount of expense involved typically pulls so much cash flow that it kills racers and track day guys' budgets within a handful of years. Being smarter on how you spend money is important. Think about what the savings can buy you. Tires, upgrades, fuel, food, etc. You'll never offset the 2 hours over the cost of rental even if minimal vs the $15 charge for a better track that will help you develop riding skills moreso than at Fremont.

Shoot me some info man. I'd possibly be interested depending on the kart and price...

Why rent? Just call CRP and do a mid week event there and collect guys to join in. Sure, you may have to share with a few karts, but at the end of the day, you'll never ride solid 9-dusk on a small bike. Your ass will give up before noon from 3 hours of solid seat time... $15 and as many laps as you want at CRP...

Hob- I'm open until the second weekend in January and then for that weekend and the four after, I have IMS shows to attend. So, I am free this coming weekend, but shut down until after the Indy IMS.

Guys- Hob has dedicated his time and garage for this event. I say run it as planned. Maybe he and I can get together and do one at the start of the year closer to spring and focus on track day and street setups. That way, everything is fresh and focused in the minds of everyone before they get to riding? Something maybe even where the folks that attend today will get some "next step" stuff at the next one where it gets a little more info handed out or something? It's up to Hob, but at the end of the day, this is his dealio and his time and I think you all should go ahead as planned.

Guys, I am out. Sick and not able to attend. I apologize, but that is what is going around right now and I am the newest victim... If this gets moved to a later date, I am all game until IMS shows start up in my region...

I think you may be the owner of Dreamers? I think that's got to be it as they were looking to pick up KTM as the one shop went out. They'll also have Polaris and Kawasaki I think? If you already have an OEM, just say what brands. I know it wouldn't be a consideration to me as a tech (stop using the word mechanics, by the way) to work in zanesville unless with a shop that has OEM names. You saying PDI lends it to be a shop with an OEM. Just say as it is already a done deal if so...

I guess I am a minority of the guys that got into the industry and it is my passion as well as my hobby. Being it is also my job, I've never once felt it burn me out. I've been in the industry as an insider type for 14 years. I was working as a shop employee for about 6 years. Went to school with the idea of Industrial Design and working in the car or motorcycle industry. That fell apart. But, got in, grew and it is certainly my lifestyle, my passion, and is part of our family structure. No burning out in sight... My personal opinion being in the industry? Get a degree. But, understand that experience can substitute for education also. Guys coming from MMI aren't always the best choice and several shops are shying away from the place. The fact is that right out of school with an education is great, but if you have a kid that is green or a veteran that has 15 years experience, experience will win. Green guys tend to burn out quick, have issues such as schedule and work ethic, etc. they've never been in a high level shop that is pumping at full tilt all season long. Get a degree. But, try and align yourself with a race team or get out there and start snooping. I know Indy Car and NASCAR teams employee engineers a ton. AMA road race and mx/sx teams as well. Get started by trying to get in on the ground floor while going to school. That growth while getting your education allows you to have experience even before you get a degree.

That black stuff that allows for a higher wear rate and lowers friction depending on use. Like on fork tubes for example.

When you say PDIs, you are referring to being an OEM dealership or some brand at minimal. It probably would be a very good idea to tell what brand you are working with. Also, for independent techs in the motorcycle industry, most are in their own shops and if they are going to pick up and move in with you and pay rent, that's going to be even tougher. Why pay rent to someone when they already are? Unless the rent is lower which would be good to also promote and advertise... Finally, you better be prepared to pay a good bit for a qualified tech. A head tech is going to be expensive and you need to promote the amount of work they will be doing, will it be seasonal, and if there will be more than one tech involved. If you are going to schools and looking for newer/green techs, you are going to be in a world of hurt. You really need a master tech and then grab a newer tech or green tech so that they can learn from the master tech and build experience. Too often, out of school techs don't last long. Reason being is they are typically on their own and just cannot keep up. Tell us what brands you will have (I think Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kaw and Polaris are the only brands there now.) and that will help your cause. If you are going to be a dirt shop or a street/dirt shop, etc... Veru vague isn't the best way to go about things and if doing something in the spring and not a major OEM, you have plenty of time... You might also want to share what your plans are in terms of shop size and marketing push.

That's why it is torn down.

So, got some pics of the motor... The motor is torn down and being used as an educational tool via the dealership as it sits right now. So, it was on display at the shop for a few days before getting into it more. The more I was looking and being shown, the more impressed I was with the build quality and the attention to detail. Little stuff like DLC coated shifter forks. DLC coated piston pin and DLC coated rocker arms. All stuff you don't typically see in a motor... The engine pulled: The front half missing some things... Cases split: Kinda big pistons (Quarters not included.) DLC coated pin: DLC coated shift forks: Something VERY cool - pressurized chain guides for the cam chain! Rubber o-rings shown in green... Note the micro polishing on cam. Same with rods... Little touches like replacing the plastic bung, quick release. Attention to detail on something that will be on and off a number of times. Race prep means making sure the smallest thing is thought of...

Yeah, you won't be able to run the lighter weight classes or the B based classes, either. Cool concept and you have the right guy doing it. It will be cool for sure!

And only legal for heavyweight classes.

Jeff- try and keep up. My response regarding Stoner was to him saying Stiner and Rossi couldn't win on the thing. I think stoner proved it could win and when it didn't suit Rossi, worked for stoner. Not sure where this is getting confused between WSBK and MotoGP. The technology trickles down to WSBK from MotoGP, but the bikes are completely different. Period. I know you're trying to make me look like the asshole here, but I was simply telling him that to say Ducati gave Checa a crap bike is wrong. I stated that riders on completely new machines with minimal testing as of yet doesn't show it to be a crap bike. As examples from others in this thread, it did well in the superstock class. Not sure your agenda here. I'll tell revel that all I am saying is that the MotoGP bike has nothing to do with the WSBK machine. I also will say that if you think the 1199 is a crap bike, I can show (and will) just how awesome some of the things are with this bike that Ducati has done that isn't being done with other brands. As for the idea Jeff is assuming I am thinking you should be treated differently and that you're not 16 and ride a moped, I don't care if you're 16 or 50. I also don't care if you own a moped or a series of every Ducati Superbike made. Misinformation or similar is just that. Doesn't matter who you are or what you own. You're a good guy and I don't want you to think I think lowly of you. But, it hits a nerve when I hear people say something is crap or say something isn't done right, etc. or that people can't win on something when it has been shown to be untrue. Even if you aren't 16...

I do. Got some motor pics yesterday and will post when I get home. Sweet stuff. They are using DLC coatings on things you don't see even in previous Ducati engines and certainly not on Japanese machines. I was VERY impressed.

It's misinformation, Jeff. I'm not trying to promote anything fanboy related. I'm trying to make sure that one, Stoner "couldn't ride it" isn't accurate. Two, you're exactly right and what I was pointing out - you cannot take the motogp bike and instantly think the WSBK is the same. Similar technology, but totally different. Finally, saying Ducati gave Checa a crap bike? Really? I'm not bashing anyone and just because you show a bike in your avatar, doesn't make you an expert and you can have misinformation like anyone without.

Dude, where do you get your info? I mean, you are saying they are giving check a bad bike. Are you freakin serious? Put down the Internet and try and source things a to develop a legitimate opinion before talking out of the side of you're mouth. Checa has struggled a bit. A new bike, no setup info to go off and the fact that the R13 isn't what was used in world super stock. Wow. Oh, and please only talk race when you have enough info to not look bad. I'd say that the fact that stoner took the Ducati to a championship in motogp, might mean something...

Again, I acknowledged I did so. It was during the time we were WERA racing and I didn't think it was safe for the speeds we were obtaining or had seen. But, I can also say that after talking to Todd and being pushed to race by Wrobel and Justin, the track can be perfectly fine at a club level. I was commenting based on people not giving it a chance after only being there maybe 1-2 times total. Remember, ive been racing since 93 in the NC region with WERA.

This is awesome, Hob. Let me know what you need me to do or what you want to accomplish and if you need anything from me. I won't have my bike done by then and all I will have is whatever tools or stands you may need.

Andy- How many times have you been to Nelson or Gingerman? I see the rolling eyes and the explanation he gave made sense. It's that a few folks get on the boards and say the Nelson is a shit hole and while not a great track or even at times, a GOOD track, it has it's merits and like mentioned by Nate - both are fine... Just go faster. The point is that some ride a track more than others and feel it is the better track whenever compared to something else. But, to say Gingerman is better than Nelson, it can come down to rider preference like R1 mentioned in his response which I respect. OR, it can come down to the fact that sometimes, people only give one track one chance and judge too quickly. This isn't a pissing contest or a deal where nobody has the right to an opinion. All I was trying to point out when we get into these Nelson and MS topics is that more often than not, the people that think Nelson sucks are usually people that haven't gone more than a couple of times. And, my responses were pointed more towards another website that is full of anti-Nelson racers and yet, they have all never been there more than 1-2 times. Yet, they say all the southern tracks and everywhere else is better and they do not race MS as a result. I think that's BS and not fair. There are a ton of people that want to race. Starting in MS is a great choice. WERA is also a great choice. BUT, WERA runs the same exact tracks with less racers and a smaller schedule. That means it really isn't any better and racing at Putnam and a full 10-11 race series seems to be better than 5-6 races and only at 3 tracks in closer proximity and one way the hell up in the NW... So, Nelson sucks, Gingerman sucks, Grattan is rough and not the best facilities and Putnam is getting to a point it is starting to show it's age. Mid-O is good, but the surface is sketchy when wet and the only thing we can look forward to at this point is if they redo Beaver. So, yes. Every track around us is fine. Just go faster.

No panties in a bunch, man. I just hate hearing responses that someone like the OP that has limited knowledge and is impressionable and hears comments like it seems it is always the left fork seal because it is leaned that way all the time. That reference was less like "Seems" and more opinion and could have been seen as something to worry about. Also, the piston inside isn't what gets scratched and causes a leak. It is the fork tube that can get a knick from road debris, etc and with even the smallest knick, can cause oil to pass and leak. The fact is if he has that many miles, it probably needs seals. Always do both at the same time as then the fluids are fresh and seals new to start fresh and at square one. Doing just one isn't the choice and the other fork fluid is probably gray matter at this stage...