Moto-Brian

Why lower a motorcycle? Are you that short you cannot place one foot on the ground?

If you are going to drop that kind of coin on a school, the Yamaha Champions school and Swantz schools are better options. The biggest issue I have with Code is they teach VERY basic stuff. Easy to teach to more people, but you still will hit a wall in terms of progression. I think if you are an entry level rider, you will advance more in terms of where you started to where you end up after the school. But, Yamaha Champions school is a school that is worthy no matter what your level of ability is...

No, no.. I agree. Small bikes allow seat time and building skills. However, what I see a lot of are guys riding those primarily and big bikes on the side. This isn't good. It can be a tool and a learning device for sure. In addition to the big bike stuff. However, the idea on the big bikes as a primary is that you cannot learn small and work big if you are an adult with experience. Smaller bikes as a step up tool is perfect for say, someone like my son. He is 13. Has zero pavement experience. I have an NSR for him to learn on and we have been doing some minor parking lot stuff. We intend to ride CRP and get his basics down. Again, starting at zero... Once we get that taken care of, my goal is to get an RS125 and do a conversion 65/85 motor in it so he has experience with the chassis size. We have a Honda RS125 now, but it is the big track bike. The thought is to give him a year of small track and NSR/RS125 conversion and move him into track days with the RS125. From there? We ill see. But, if it were me, I would get zero from racing or running the NSR at CRP other than a fun factor. Sure, learning something like how to deal with the chassis, how to maintain a corner speed, etc. But, that translates very little to big bike application. I see guys slipping clutches on the two strokes. You do not do that on a big bike. I have raced an XR100 before the fad took place and we even won an endurance race on a stocker with 16s. But, the way we rode and the way the bike reacted, it was experience on two wheels, but it doesn't translate over to big bikes. What does well to transfer is taking those 100s and flat tracking them on ice, dirt, slippery concrete, etc. Motard stuff does also help. Again, on a big bike, the controlling of the slide, the 4 stroke engine response to braking, clutch work, etc translates. The importance of drive OUT and controlled rapid braking into a turn all translate. Take that 100 you've got and get some circles in on a dirt track and you will get more from that than road racing it... Loose is good. It allows you to not OVER REACT to when the big bike gets loose. As for agreeing on approach, what I say, etc. I am a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy. I will say what I type to your face even if it isn't the popular way to think. But, my number one objective is to get more people into this sport. I also have an objective to try and educate a lot of people as it is a sport that is VERY new to a lot of folks. That newness allows them to fall into things that are not the best options. My thought process is to save people time and effort and work on basics to improve. I want everyone to succeed. I want guys to get better. There's nothing better than taking a friend or a guy and leading them around to show them the better line than what they are doing/using. They instantly drop their times and the looks on their faces are priceless. OSUYR1 on here is one of my favorite guys to work with. He is very positive to work with. He and his buddy are smooth, passionate about the sport and I have seen improvement. But, no matter good or bad or whether they advance or get stuck, they are always smiling and willing to listen and learn. He is a great example of results from working at this. I watch him and listen to his throttle management and feel that at the end of this season, he quite possibly has improved more than I remember. That's what my goal is. I wanna help everyone. Trust me, you will not find anyone more passionate about this sport than me. Not a single soul. It gets me on the wrong side of arguments at times and even the wrong side of what others think of me. But, I think there are more guys that like the way I do things and accept my passion of this sport...

I agree to a degree, but do not feel this is something that blankets everyone. I know of several people including myself that are not professional at this sport. Nobody other than if Larry Pegram on here can say that. BUT, I will say that pace which sounds like to me you classify as ability and getting better, is something I place at the top. You can take safety out of the equation as if ANYONE comes to a track for anything feels they are going to roll in an unsafe and taking chances manner, they will soon be booted out. Safety is a given and is a must or you are in the wrong place. So for me, pace rather, ability and getting better is top of my list and ranks above fun. I feel fun is a key ingredient of track days. I even had some fun at VMD racing Carr this year, but this shit is pretty serious and while I think you can have a shit eating grin on your face while on track, it shouldn't be looked at like fuzzy bunnies kind of fun and everyone is joking and riding around like tree huggers. You need this to be taken serious as the results of anything otherwise can be deadly. This ain't tennis where the possibility of death is pretty minimal. But, fun is what we all need to have or it is not worth doing. The fun to me is in the pits, talking with others, teaching others and watching them get better. The off track stuff is so much fun and exciting to me even after almost 20 years doing this. But, on track, I have a smile on my face a lot, but when you look at the pics, I stay pretty focused.

#1 and #2 are issues that absolutely need resolved. You can worry about the family when in the pits and off the bike. It isn't being harsh nor cold natured. It's just that if you are worrying even a TINY bit about those things, this sport is done in milliseconds. It only takes that amount of time to save something or to ball it up. #2 is an issue a lot of riders have. I love it when we see guys show to the track with bikes that have more gizmos and components than a top shelf AMA bike has only to see them running mid "I" pace. I think it is awesome to see anyone out there, but when fiddling with components and working with new stuff every time you go out, it is counter productive. Look at it this way, you go to the track with a bunch of new goodies and what do you have to do on top of thinking about the track and your lines, speed, braking, etc? You have to worry about why the rear is bouncing under load or the front slapping under load, etc. Those things are fine if you have the experience to ride around them until you get in. But, for a newer rider or mid level rider, those are distractions the same as worrying about your wife and kids...

To echo Brandon, being a suspension clicker guy or a tweeker isn't the way to go. Get a bseline and work on form, work on fundamentals. You will get faster and as you get faster, those "settings' you read about in books, on the internet and from your buddies are all moot. Baselines and basic riding styles are all fine and dandy. Great places TO START. Start. But, each and every rider has a different way they process, the way they ride, the way they place pressure on certain parts of the bike. One guys leans off with elbows dragging while the other is more traditional. One guy rides the front while another squares off turns and drives out spinning. Styles and the way you process can be totally different than what a book is telling you to do or the way you see others do it, etc. SEAT TIME is key. But, I will say that knowledge is key. LISTEN to everyone, but learn to filter. I think having people around you telling you what you need to work on is a good thing. It may be BS or it could be legit. If I tell you that you need to work on something and you do it, I am willing to bet you get faster. Is that telling someone how to go faster? I think so. Maybe what Brandon is saying is that some guys will say basic crap like "You need 30 mm cartridges to get better" or that "You need to twist the throttle wide open as often as you can." I think those things are common and agree they do nothing. But, I think there are a ton of faster guys that are there to help you out. Some have different approaches to what they do and how they learn and so, have a different way to teach you or instruct you. The idea is that lessons to be accomplished work great. "Let's go out and you follow me and watch my lines" is something that is a HUGE asset. If you go out blindly and try to discover the best lines, it takes too long and can get frustrating or can lead to making the same mistake over and over again and going backwards or not advancing at all. On a final note so far, I would say don't worry too much about equipment. I would say that you need safe and reliable stuff, but street tires are fine to learn on. Good condition is key of course as shit tires are dangerous, but don't feel that you need new tires every time you go out. We have had some pretty amazing rides on tires that were shagged to a point of being bald. I do not advocate that for a newer rider or someone trying to get better, but the idea is that there are sone great tires out there and what you have as long as in good shape can be just fine in learning. As you get faster? You need better tires. Q2s, etc are great choices, can be used when street riding and are prone to holding up rather well. You will not need a new set or like new tires every track day. If that were the case, I am violating that rule on a regular basis.

As for the guys that already are doing track days and want to advance or maybe are in advance now, but want to get better and aspire to race, there are hurdles with them, as well. Look, we all have fear. We all do. But, what happens with your mind when the bike rolls on to the track is where the differences are. I get guys that are Advanced level riders and always ask what they can do to get better. I follow them around and I also work with a good number of Intermediate riders and they all have the same thing going on. Their form is awesome! I see kids riding "I" that have an awesome style of riding. Great lean off, great body position, smooth, etc. I get jealous as I have a traditional and pretty boring riding style. Being tall tends to have me looking like I am sitting up and cruising around. But, I see kids in "I" group dragging elbows through turn one at Mid-Ohio!!!! That aside, I watch them, find a few issues, but overall, they look good, are very smooth and really, are running fairly fast. To get to the next level for them, they need to do the small things better. Small things... It's like I stated in the last post where as you progress to the next level, the challenges get tougher. But, those challenges are smaller in scale of what needs to be done. Mental change at the Novice level as a new rider is a HUGE ordeal to get by. But, in comparison to that, braking deeper is actually a smaller task. It is tough and it is something that is hard to get passed. But, braking isn't trying to change your mental outlook on something. So, as you get better and you ask what you need to do to get faster/better, it is usually the small stuff. Maybe you need to work on braking later. Maybe you need to increase corner speed. Maybe you need to work on drive out. I got behind this kid at Mid-O that was running high 36s on a regular basis and he wanted to get into 34s. Two seconds isn't a big deal from 2:00 to 1:58, but going from 36 to 34 is a big deal. That's getting to a point where you are now in race pace. The hurdle wasn't apparent as easily as say, a Novice that has to get their butt off the seat and control body position. Two seconds at the level he was is a challenge that has a lot of consequence if done poorly. Now, understand that when the lap timer shows a high 36, it doesn't men a whole lot. Sure, it is cool to show your buddies the lowest time, but the idea is consistency. You can pull a fast lap, but if you are all over the board in lap times, you still need a ton of work. So, getting this kid his single 34 showing on his lap timer was an easier task than getting him to do low 36s consistently. But, we were on task so.... The things I saw were small. He had good lines, had great form, was doing well on corner speed as well. In fact, as it usually happens when trailing a rider while watching, he would pull me through the apex. But, he had two issues. One, consistency. Biggest issue. Second, he needed to drive stronger out of the keyhole, carousel, 8, 9, 10b, 14, etc. Finally, he needed to work on braking. He was braking too soon, but not terribly. These are tough to get by when climbing the ladder of ability. There are more issues as you go down in rank of ability, but these are to me, the three key issues a rider faces in getting better. Mentally, all he cared about was a lap time. I told him to ditch the lap timer. Throw it in the tool box and ride without it. Working on some other things is going to make him faster than trying to satisfy a lap time. Second, running slower lap times will make you faster. I can run a 36 through traffic with very little effort. A few moments will pop up, but overall, high 36s are pretty easy. But, jump me into 34s on the RC8 and 29s on the GSXR1000 and I have some issues. If I wanted consistent 29s the year I pulled that out of my ass, I had to be on fire and do about everything perfect. We were into high 30s during the race and that pace being only 1 to 1-1/2 seconds slower were easier and came to me better. The 34s on the RC8 were tough and even though I think we had a lot more, were nowhere near the feat of what I could pull on the Zook. If I wanted to do low 32s or 31s on the RC8, though... I would be in that realm of 29s on the GSXR... The point is that as you get faster and as you start getting quicker in what you are doing, things happen faster. You tire faster. Your mentality changes and even your mental awareness drops a bit as you run those laps. So, I see a kid looking to do 34s make a shit pile of mistakes and only do 37s as a result. He actually went slower than he could if he calmed down. That's the rub. He wanted it too much and honestly, tried too hard and threw everything he developed at this stage, out the window. He was a mess. I told him that he needed to slow down. Go slower. We worked a few other times and he was actually running slower and mostly low 37s. BUT, he was doing everything better. Everything. He was smoother, he was driving better. He was braking more consistently and working the corner speed as he usually was doing. His line work advanced and I could see he was able to make changes in line while at full lean. That was huge in terms of what I saw and felt he advanced. But, he was bummed. He wanted faster and got slower. Yes. He did. But, he was able to get used to doing the things he needed to do CORRECTLY! Doing them correctly developed a bit of comfort in doing them at the speed he was doing them at. So, the next season, he was still running those 37s. He was still doing the things he needed well. So, we took and decided to work on drive. Drive helped that dude so much that I cannot tell you how much. His drive got so good! That propelled him into low 36s like a snap of a finger. The next hurdle was a little less early braking. Not a huge change, but he got comfortable. But, we got stuck. He had some 35s and no 34s. I told him at a track day, 34s are going to be tough until he gets more aggressive with the traffic. Yet another challenge for track day guys... In the end, some of these guys are going to be advanced riders and get stuck into a set time. They look at it as a failure and I hate it. I hate lap timers. I think if you can use it for segment work? Yes, they are awesome. Shoot for a set time at a set point in the track and allow that point to move when you hit traffic or make an error, etc. You cannot get too many super clean laps in a track day. So, what is your time out of the keyhole? What is your time going into Thunder Valley? What is your time as you enter turn one? Things like that... Also, sometimes, it is a tough pill to swallow that you may be a set time kind of guy. Your ability will only go so far. If this sport were easy, everyone would be making millions racing MotoGP. It isn't. It is tough and like every sport, within the levels, there are smaller levels. Then, micro levels. Racing has these. You can be an expert and be part of the cool kids' club, but at the expert level, you have Pro, Pro-Am, National expert, top club guy, mid pack club guy, low end club guy, etc., etc... It never stops and why I always state that everyone can learn and get better. Everyone. You cannot do anything wrong if you pursue more schooling, more reading, more riding of ANYTHING 2 wheels, etc... But, hurdles exist and mental blocks exist. And yes, even ability runs out. Being able to swallow pride and understand that maybe road racing isn't your gig is OK and nobody will shun you when you show up at a bike night.

This is an awesome topic and something I have talked to several riders in regards to. There are a few issues in advancing your ability or stepping up to the next level. Sure, some of it is fear, hesitation in stepping up to the next level, nerves, concern, etc. As you advance, each level gets harder and harder. It's like a video game. It isn't the same difficulty from Novice to Intermediate as it is from "I" to "A". Nor, is it the same difficulty while in "A" group, trying to get better within that group. Each step is harder than the first and so, that final step is harder than the first... I guess what I am saying is that you need to eliminate the easy stuff. Mentality will always be a road block and like the survey that is asking about your thoughts on the track, what holds you back or what do you think while "on the edge". But, as you get better, you develop a mindset that helps eliminate those mental variables. Take a novice rider and a racer. The mentality towards this is so vastly different. I NEVER think about my family, my job, money, death, injury, etc when the shield goes down. When that shield goes down, I focus on the task. That's no matter the scenario - track day or race day. I am focused on the idea of getting better. Sure, it has it's moments when we are track day riding and we are having fun that I might be a bit more laid back and honestly, it isn't about attacking vs. sitting back. Even at a lower degree of aggressiveness like seen in a track day, I am still focused and those little bits never enter my mind. You will train yourself to do that. BUT, there are some that cannot get over that hump. Trust me when I tell you that it is the smallest hurdle. You are not a terrible person to close out thoughts of your kids, wife, work, etc. Not at all. But, those are DISTRACTIONS. Distractions in this sport can place you in a pine box or worse, others. You need focus. For safety as well as a way to get better. Those hurdles are just that - hurdles. And, if you cannot eliminate them, you will be smacking shins on the hurdles every time you jump. Again, it is common with newer riders. You can get through it with more seat time. I am a fan of riding anything 2 wheels. However, I am not a fan of small bikes and then jumping to big bikes. I think as an adult and your age and experience, small bikes are a great TOOL to maintain that ability and work on set skills that are pretty relative. But, you are not going to develop skills that relate to a bike that weighs 400 lbs and has about 120 plus HP difference and a track that relatively isn't to scale of a larger track. I think taking a 14 year old on an NSR or a RS125 with a motor conversion will allow him time to develop skills that are basic and fundamental. I prefer the idea of a 125 with a smaller engine due to the size and body position, etc. In fact, the young stars are getting more and more into large framed bikes with smaller motors to maintain that relative power to size of track relationship. Once they develop the skills, they are then capable of transitioning from 125 with a smaller motor to a 125 with the 125 motor on a big track or develop into a 4 stroke and up from there. But, as adults, we don't always have that luxury. My opinion is you need big bike seat time. You've done 4 days at the novice level and should be ready for "I". If you are not, there is a serious issue at this stage. There is nothing more than seat time that you will develop from the 5th novice day onwards in the same group. YOU NEED TO TAKE THE STEP! The issue is that if you have these hurdles and add in the fear of the step up and the speed associated from the two groups, you are creating a big issue that will hinder progress in getting better as a rider. You can sit and read and read and read books on what to do. However, there is no replacement for actual seat time ON BIG BIKES. You can get an MX bike (Suggest a 4 stroke for the motor characteristics) and get out in a field or grass track and do some flat tracking or road course style riding. This will allow you to understand sliding, movement under you and above all, power that is fast and rushes things to you quickly to adapt to braking, developing quick reflexes, etc. Again, CRP isn't going to hurt you as seat time on 2 wheels is awesome. But, you are not getting out of shape in the way that if you get your GSXR600 out of shape. You are also not going to get the sensation of extreme speed into a corner and having to recover, etc. A full size MX bike can provide that feeling and allow you to make mistakes and be OK. But, you need to get to Jennings over winter, you need to get in some ice racing over winter, you need to jump at getting seat time in the early spring/late winter and do track days on the big bike. That's the only way you will get better. I think since you have an XR100, you really need to build or get with some guys and do a flat track deal. Flat tracking on smaller bikes works great as it is loose and on the edge. It is fast and is great at developing skills that relate to the big bikes. Plus, you can get this sensation on a lake or pond when the water freezes this winter...

Basically, you can get fucked even if you have a title. A TON of people try and get everything but the purchase price noted on the title. They fill in something stupid like a $1k for a $10k bike, etc. Avoids the tax issues, etc. So, in theory, a BoS is important as it states the selling price and something to fall back on. Technically speaking, if the BoS states $10k and has both seller and buyer info and signatures, the State could use that to get more money. I understand the title issue. The thing that starts to blur this topic is we start talking street vs track. Again, the BoS is going to be useful and I am sure that just like a dealership would do, if you tried to say it was stolen and had signatures and info, how the hell would that happen? I highly doubt that a seller would try anything stupid if you did a full disclosure BoS and had a witness or even a Notary stamp the thing. I'd run that sucker in deep in a court if the seller tried that BS. The example that Madcat provided was obviously done on a trust deal and no BoS. Otherwise, there would be a case that it was properly sold in a manner that was legit and legal.

Great cars. We have a G35 and we love it. How is it in terms of winter driving? Also, stupid question, but what are the pads on the top of the seat backs on the driver and passenger seats? Any issues with the motor in terms of oil use? I don't think it is the Rev V6 out of the G35, but wanted to ask. We are thinking a sedan and I don't want to buy new just yet...

Oh, MCO is what a dealer receives from the manufacturer. Say Ducati... Ducati sends Motohio an MCO. It is the origin of the bike and where it came from. Manufacturer Certificate of Origin... Now, they keep these in a file and are not transferred into anyone's name until registered. If they fill out the Post Delivery Inspection and warranty register the bike, that bike is then registered into the customer's name and a title produced in that person's name or the bank that has the lien. Then, when it is sold after the buy, the title is in the original owner's name and then you go from there when the owner sells it. Basically, the MCO is the start of the process and is actually is pretty worthless until the unit is registered. Many bikes are out there with that as most racers are not going to register and pay the taxes as again, it never sees the street. It is just like buying a dirt bike out of state. You don't pay the taxes until it is registered and unless riding on a state trail, no need so, it never gets registered properly...

Honestly, for me, it would mean a drive to the title office, and time. IF I lost a title, I would just try and promote a BoS. If the buyer was wanting a title 100% and I felt it was a possible lost sale, I would go through the hoops... But, if not a needed thing and not really important, why do it? Not a lot of MCO track bikes, but realize that a lot of teams and higher level racers have bikes with MCOs. My last three had them as I sold them and the owners were fine with it. Again, never going to be a street bike, but if it ever does end up there, they'd have a warranty!

I think legally, it is not his even with a title. If he finds it but has signed a Bill of Sale, it is no longer legally his. You have signature and even if you step up to a notary. Basically, you have an agreement in writing as well as a verbal. It's pretty much a lock... But, I am not a lawyer so, I am sure there is a loop hole...

That's why forums suck. Things get misunderstood easily. Anyways, people aren't always lazy as you assume by your feeling. In fact - again - the fact is that it takes a good bit of time to get a title for something once lost. And, if you have an MCO which several higher level racers only have presents an even greater hurdle. In the end, it isn't lazy, it is a matter of if it even makes sense. If it is widely acceptable (which it is), why take those steps when it isn't needed? Bottom line is that we all derailed this topic as usual. The final thing to the OP is that it is fine. Follow the ideas presented in the thread. Do things with the suspicion is it isn't legit and when you do your research and take the proper steps and find out it is, you've protected your investment and above all, yourself.

You make a blanket statement. You also stated that if they are lazy with the title issue, they are probably lazy on things like maintaining the bike. You are at a stage where you are making assumptions and using a word that is not accurate. Laziness is offensive and it does make it sound like your perception is that if they boggle the title, they are sitting around smoking weed and eating Cheetos and too lazy to get it taken care of. Not the case at all. Maybe in some cases it is. I couldn't find my title due to moving things around and a file was misplaced. That's being lazy? Seriously??? I used the comment about not knowing because you guys don't buy race or track day bikes or around that environment enough to know it is more common than you think. It's common in our industry of racing and it is handled well and things are fine. Otherwise, there would be huge crack downs on VIN# checking and the like.

But, you don't know the law and are saying shit out of the side of your mouth. I've sold, bought, know pretty well what goes on in selling motorcycles. It's my profession. I can say that you shouldn't chime in because all you are doing is talking about something you don't really know about. I am saying that your opinion is fine and your comments are cool and all, but you have nothing to add other than opinion vs fact. You don't know what the process is, you cannot relate and like JRMii, you are talking about something and saying it is laziness or simply lack of approach by the owner to not sort the title deal out. What I am saying in regards to feeling you shouldn't really be here giving out reasons for or against is that you've never been around this environment and so, really cannot understand that it is not an issue of laziness or related when not getting a title. What are your thoughts on an MCO? It is "technically" the dealership's unit as it was never registered to an end user. That's as worthless as a BOS in what you are saying. Know how many teams sell bikes with just MCOs from an OEM? Same deal.

It does. But, it also has a Bill of Sale that shows that legal owner approving the sale of said bike with listed VIN# and Motor # and his legal name and signature being sold to the stated Buyer with legal name and signature. I really doubt he could take that to court and have any platform by which to stand on. It would be no different than a guy selling a flat screen TV to someone and then he decides to call the cops saying it was stolen. Cops show up, see the BOS... What do you think will happen at that point? I know it isn't a TV, but there are several items of that price and worth that do not have a "title" and are sold daily with BOS or similar... Add a notary and you've got a pretty much iron clad ownership of sold bike going on...

So, you shouldn't buy a Bill of Sale only track day bike. But, I doubt you and Scruit probably have any interest in buying one anyways. So, probably not even a topic you two should chime in on as we are talking as Gixxie stated - track use only bikes that do not need titles. Point is simple. It is a very unimportant item in the grand scheme of things. You own a track or race bike and you'd understand this. Yes, it is something several of us maintain and keep, but I can tell you this - I almost couldn't find the MCO to my last 2009 GSXR I sold and was going to do a Bill of Sale only. I wasn't about to go through the process to get an MCO as it is pretty tough to get done. I also wasn't going to try and get a title via a Mechanic's Lean through a shop buddy, either. I guess I am too fucking lazy... Racers. That's their MO anyways...

First of all, take any 2011 bike and one is salvage and no title. The owner built it up and has been measured, been fixed of any issue it had and has top shelf components. Take the same bike and with a title and has the same thing. Not worth "thousands of dollars more". Not a chance. A few hundred maybe, but if the seller is respectable and has all their info and receipts, etc, how is it he is lazy because he doesn't have a title? Then, to say they are terrible at maintaining their bikes because they lost a piece of paper? I agree it is important and like I said, I try and keep mine safe and at the ready, but understand that it isn't at all something I would think relative. I can tell if you suck at maintaining your bike as soon as I ask you to pull the fairings off. Typically, most guys suck at keeping the bike in tip top shape and a removal of the fairings shows this. It's more than oil changes and tires and chains... We've gone as far as to check the fluid in a fork to see if it has been in fact refreshed. Usually, it is as they say with receipts, but if they "claim it" without receipt, I pull a cap and take some fluid out and see how clean it is. Gray? Nope.

You guys saying it is a risk or saying you don't understand the loss of a title, etc. We are NOT talking street bikes here. You are responding without any knowledge of the inner circle of racing and an understanding of how things work. Yes, title or not, you can get screwed on ANY purchase whether a bike, car, airplane, watch, video game. Those are rare and if doing ANY investigating and getting things done properly, wouldn't be an issue. However, sometimes, no matter what you do, it isn't enough and you still can lose out. Live in a bubble, don't eat peanut butter and filter the air you breath. For the rest actually interested in a track bike without a title - getting to be more and more common - here's the drill... I take all my MCOs and titles and place into a lock box that is fire proof. I then grab said title or MCO and present with the Bill of Sale. The MCO isn't really any different than a Bill of Sale as I could have stolen it from the dealership and got into the office and stolen the related MCO that goes with that bike. If you are buying, run the VIN#, ask for the motor # and find out what is the status of the items. Easy. THEN, draw up a Bill of Sale on YOUR end and email back and forth or use a phone and get all the needed info. Buyer/Seller names, #s from the bike, phone and email contacts, addresses, etc. It's pretty much selling 101. If you are at all worried, do the notary deal. That's even better. The bottom line is this. Track day guys and racers do not NEED a title or an MCO. They have the intentions to save them and store them in a good place for later use. However, shit happens. People are busy (not always lazy - you work 50 plus hours, travel 3-4 days a week, raise two kids and have a wife that works - shit gets misplaced all the time and if you think I am lazy, come ride with me for a month and see what I deal with) and forget, lose, misplace things all the time. At the time of the sale, they do not have the needed title or MCO and do a Bill of Sale. Now, Sruit's example is pure stupid. It was a title in a different person's name. Yes, not a good idea. Second, if the guy offered no title and Bill of Sale only and he did a VIN# search, he would have seen a different owner than who he was buying it from. Red flag. It's VERY simple folks. Just check shit out. OP, if you have any other questions and wanna ask, shoot me a PM. We can let the other kids tell everyone how dangerous and scary buying anything with a Bill of Sale is and how they wouldn't advise or do it. I'll get you with about a dozen or so folks that have and several bikes that have changed hands and you can see if it is as scary and dangerous as some make it out to be.

Guys, race bikes and track day bikes are getting to be more and more "Bill of Sale Only"... It is simply an issue where the owners have lost titles as most often times, it is just a piece of paper that never gets used. My last several bikes have had MCOs which are titles basically. I just never registered them (which is usually what most people want) because I was never going to street them. The facts are simple. Run the VIN#, get a DETAILED Bill of Sale and even have a Notary as mentioned if you are all that worried. Take and meet the guy at a local motorcycle dealer, have a Bill of Sale ready, ask the dealership if you can even pay a small fee to use the notary and have it done and part ways. Guy can call the cops all day long after the transaction, but will have zero leg to stand on when it gets to court or to the officers when they see the Bill of Sale. I have always done a Bill of Sale and can provide you with a template. Basically, you want to note the Seller's name, Buyer's name and VIN# with description of the bike. At the bottom, have a line for printed name, signature and date. For both Buyer and Seller and add a Witness also if needed or the feeling of being needed. Just do some research. It's easy to do and the bike will then have paperwork and if a racebike, pretty standard issue stuff and will not detract from the value of the bike when selling it again. You can also apply for a Mechanic's Lean if you desire and do not have a Bill of Sale. In Ohio, the Bill of Sale should be enough if notorized to get the bike inspected and get a title. But there is the rub... If it needs inspected, you need to full street the thing. That can cost some money to get the needed parts. Reason I say that should be enough, it is CRAZY easy to get a street title for an off road machine. I've seen guys with two stroke woods bikes running on the street with full tags and lights, etc. EASY in Ohio...

But, you can brake deeper than your opponent and carry the same speed as they are starting to carry through a turn. Then, they do not have to hold up nor lose their drive, but due to late braking, you have placed yourself in front of them and taken the spot away. But, they have lost nothing but a position and can carry the same intended speed and fall in behind... Smooth and clean passes with no loss of drive happen all the time. Those are MUCH different than a block pass...

A block pass in my mind is a pass that is essentially getting in to a turn before your opponent and taking the line away. It effectively causes him/her to lose the ability to carry the speed and gain the drive out. Typically though, you stuff in and lose drive yourself due to the tight line you have to take, but it will ruin his also and you get a better drive out and make the pass stick. You may very easily stand the passee up while doing this type of pass. But, you can also just stuff in and be totally clean, but kill their ability to make that turn as quick as normal and have to almost be held up by you and have to wait while you are driving and exiting hard...

Back on topic... I like the last several responses outside asking about my name, etc. C7fx has some great insight and great thoughts. Twisted and R1 had some awesome responses as well... Personally, I think the term CR is somewhat weird at times as I see what Ducati Indy is doing. I know Dean, Mike, Matt, etc and all are instructing and not just CRing. I think that the confusion is really a title issue... I think that if there is organized instruction, you are an instructor. But, just because a track day may not have a classroom or something to offer I and A as well as Novice, doesn't mean you are of lower quality. I want to point out one very important thing here. If you are a CR or an instructor, you are awesome and doing a great service for customers in whatever track day you work. I'm not trying to separate the CRs from Instructors. Please understand that the QUALITY of a track day is often and should be, judged on how much a customer gets out of their day. If you are a CR or an instructor, I PERSONALLY feel that you owe it to the track day company and to the customers to offer insight and assist customers in getting better. A few things need to be done in any track day org: 1) if you are there for yourself or feel you are owed track time for working as a CR or instructor, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. You will get track time WHEN IT IS FREE TO DO SO. I see a lot of guys and even when I was directing for STT, that were dropping their obligations to assist riders/customers to get out on the track for their group to get track time in. When approached, they felt since they volunteer and burn their own fuel, own tires, etc., it was something they were owed. I let a staff member go as a result of this mentality and felt several more needed to go... 2) Instruction. Whether CR or instructor, you need to be proactive. Get out and find riders needing assistance. Like C7fx stated, a lot of times, the vest guy is an asshole because they are pulling people over and talking about how to help. You'll get those riders. I've had several. It's the approach and I think the missing link in all of this is that the staff are not trained or educated in how to approach a customer that needs bumped down or criticized about their riding. It's difficult and honestly, avoided in most cases and issues are left to run their course. This cannot happen... 3) Ability. Again, whether an CR or instructor (More emphasis on instructor), you need to have the ability to ride in whatever group you are assisting. As Rusty mentioned, if you are running :45s in Advanced at Mid-O and have a vest on? You need pulled. You can run and develop your skills WITHOUT the vest on. Otherwise, credibility and even the more important ability to help others is lost. I don't have a single issue with someone trying to better themselves and again, it is less about lap times and more about smooth, consistent and predictable. But, the unfortunate deal with CRing or instructing, you need to actually be at the top of that level you teach. I also find some serious issue with instructors teaching newer riders and especially "I" level riders in things that shouldn't be discussed or quite bluntly, they have not obtained the right level of ability themselves to be teaching others methodology. I can read from a book about Nuclear Science, but if I have zero or little hands on experience nor ability to do what I am preaching, it is something that I feel is wrong. I've pissed off a few guys and I will stand my ground on this. I've seen it in action and it really pisses me off that customers that do not know much and are absorbing everything they are told, get someone that cannot even put into action, the theories they are preaching. I hear a LOT of regurgitated Keith Code stuff which again, is just read from a book and pitched without really understanding the theory themselves. Sorry, rant over... 4) Cowboys. I feel that their is a time to have fun and horse play. We are riding machines capable of power wheelies and sweet play as we ride. But, on your own time. Not with a vest. Again, as C7fx stated, it is a target. It is also a HUGE flashing light when shit hits the fan. Even if the vest is clean and clear, you won't believe the number of crashes where a rider swore a vest hit his wheel or chopped his front before he crashed. The fact is that we typically find out this to not be the case. Working with corner workers who see a LOT more than most give credit and looking at evidence of impact, etc., it is usually because the vest was around or maybe passing and it is the last thing that crosses their memory bank. I think there needs to be a hammer brought down on the staff of any track day. If there is stuff going on that shouldn't be, it needs corrected NOW. If it is not or allowed to be evidence on YouTube or topic of an upset customer or someone that posts a comment online, we are a society of media that is out almost immediately. The unfortunate issue is that people do not typically get online to a forum or write a letter that is positive. It usually is due to a complaint or issue... So, it is even more important to get that stuff fixed as soon as possible... Sorry this went from passing to instructing and CRing. But, I think there are a ton of CRs that are actually doing a better job than a lot of instructors. I think guys like Dean are guys that should be lead instructors and sought after by every org. He is a CR technically from what I understand. I also think there are instructors like Rob that are amazing at what they do, assist riders when they see something the customers need help with and are experienced enough to be the ones teaching the typical "I" rider. This topic carries heavy weight in my mind and I am trying to work with others to make it better. Anyways, passing... Stuff em!!!

I go commando so, that theory is out the window... In reality, I have been with KTM going on three years... Was a great time, great product, but even though I have raced and ran MX and some off road, dirty bikes just aren't my wheelhouse. Ducati came up and I decided to try for it and landed it. I'm very excited and yes, Rusty... I will be changing bikes. My RC8R RS was a demo. That's why it was stock... Anyone know someone with an RC8? I have a PILE of parts and spares. CHEAP!!!