Todd#43

Lets start the bidding at $5,500.00 and see where things go.

I know I shouldn't have, but I went to the show Saturday, and now I've got the itch for something new. I've got to sell the 600 first though - I've only had this bike since this summer, and its REALLY clean. Here are the details: 2004 GSX-R 600 street bike Excellent shape, second owner, 21K miles. Never been down, clean title. Includes: -Two Bothers bolt-on, carbon-fiber cover -Vortex sliders -Vortex left-side case cover -Metzeler M-3 90% F/R <500 miles -Suzuki Gel Seat -solo cover and passenger seat included -custom fender eliminator -EBC front pads -DID chain, Vortex Sprockets 15/47 -1/+2 from stock I've got some other pics, and the price is negotiable, so make me an offer.

I went to the site, and I didn't see any tits

That's my point.... The bike is really designed to crash...so, if you aren't willing to throw it down the track (or bust the front up) ride it from point A to point B and forget about the rest of that stuff.

For what its worth, I think you should get some of those spinners.... Much higher bling factor than the Marchesini's. Seriously though, I had the Marchesinis on my 748 and I raced Doug's GSX-R with the 16.5 Marchesinis. The difference is noticeable, but they didn't make me any faster.

It has nothing to do with winning or losing. I just thought maybe you'd like to share your story about how anyone can make $50,000.00 in 15 minutes just by buying a house. If you want to keep it to yourself, that's cool.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, or bust your balls, or anything like that. You were the one that said you would put 50,000 in your pocket - maybe more - just by purchasing a home. I've shown why its not possible, unless you're putting 50K of borrowed money in your pocket. Why don't you show me how it IS possible?

We've been conditioned to think that buying a house is a good investment, and for a time it was. Real Estate appreciated a pace that exceeded inflation as well as interest rates. This was true for decades after WWII - ask any baby boomer and they'll tell you it paid off for them. Now, even with low interest rates, and minimal inflation, the housing market appreciation doesn't keep up. Bottom line is that unless you paid cash for a house, and put NOTHING into it, you could do better sitting at blackjack table in Vegas, or playing the stock market. I know plenty about making money, and I've done a pretty good job of it throughout my career. Its about risk vs. reward. You have to look at ALL the costs involved - not just some of them. You're a plumber, right? There's more to the cost of running your business than the payment on your truck right? There's more to owning a home than the principle and interest payments. Most people don't look at the total cost of ownership when they say buying a home is a "good" investment. Anyway, paying 180 payments on a 120,000.00 loan (I'm using round numbers here) will cost you almost 180,000 at 5.5%. So, lets assume 0% inflation, you paid all the payments on schedule (no extra principle payments), and all your taxes, repairs and improvements are free, you still only break even. I'm not trying to bust balls man, but you said it's a lock that you can put $50,000.00 in your pocket. I just want to know how you'd do it. I mean, I'd GLADLY pay someone $120,000.00 today to give me $170,000.00 next week....hell, I'd give them till next year to do it.

Oh man... I guess those 2005-2006 GSX-R's were shitty too. We crashed one and broke the frame.

I own bikes, but they're not investments. You cant make money on items that depreciate. Although a house may increase in value (not very quickly lately) the increase in value doesn't happen fast enough for you to realize any money. You've owned the house for nine years, right? If your payment (principle and interest) is more than $500 per month, you've already spent at least $54,000.00. Lets add a conservative $3000 in annual real estate taxes, for a total of $81,000.00 spent. How much time have you spent "working" on your house - cutting grass, shoveling snow, painting and other general maintenance? Is 100 hours a year enough? What do you bill your customers for an hour of your time? $90? more, less? Add another $10,000.00 for that (maybe more, maybe less) and you've got at least $90,000 total spent. Homeowners insurance another $2,700?? Lets say you spent another $7,000.00 in supplies and materials over the last 9 years for regular maintenance and improvements. Nine years of Home ownership has easily cost you $100,000.00. Now, you've paid to date $220,000.00 for your $180,000.00 house. At 9 years a 120,000 mortgage (at 5.5% for 30 years) still has a payoff of around $102,000.00. $180,000-102,000=78,000.00 in equity. You've spent $100,000.00 to date on your house. $78,000.00-$100,000.00=($22,000.00). In 9 years you've "lost" $22,000.00. Offset the tax savings and you've lost a little less, but you get the picture. In the last 5 years, I've spent more than that on rent for sure. But I've never said that renting was an "investment".

I do have a return on my money - a roof over my head for a period of time. I have plenty of other "assets" - retirement accounts (money in the bank), commercial real estate, and own part of a company. What I don't have is personal debt, or a bunch of "equity" to create more debt.

Dude, you really don't get it do you? If you think you can realize 35% on your investment in seven years, you gotta be smoking crack. You might have 50k in "equity" but thats just money to leverage more debt. Its not real. Again, you need to add up ALL the costs. Total of your mortgage payments, property taxes, repairs and improvements (including your time), and don't forget to account for inflation - about 3% annually. So, with no other costs figured in, your 35% gain over 7 years is 5%, minus inflation. Now were down to 2% net gain per year. Whats the APR on your mortgage? If its more than 2% you're losing money. Losing money (real dollars) is NOT a good investment. Buy a house if you want a house - that's all cool. Just don't try to convince people that you bought it as an investment. There are much better ways to actually MAKE money with money. Yes, I flipped houses back in the 90's when you could make some money doing it. Rates were low, and banks were giving money away for free to people that couldn't really afford it. You cant do that now.

Ok, so 160 minus 120 is only 40 - not 50, and you still haven't totalled ALL of the costs of home ownership. Money on paper is not the same as cash in your pocket. There is a cost involved in "having" it. What gets me is people that say renting is "throwing money away". I rent now, and have owned, sold and flipped houses way before it was fashionable. You think I "get nothing" for renting? I have a nice place to live, and that has a definite value. I don't have any debt, and havent created any "paper wealth". I have someone to cut the grass, shovel the snow, and fix shit when it breaks - all without any out of pocket expenses on my part. To top it all off, when the place I'm living in no longer suits my needs I can pack my stuff and move - all without the hassle of selling my dwelling and hoping against hope that I can put money in my pocket, or waiting six to nine months to have cash to be able to put into another place.

Dude, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a dick but you really haven't made 50K on that house. Ok, the carpet was worth $1,000.00 - you're down to $49,000 now. How much time and money did you spend on the paint? Seriously...its next to impossible to realize cash from a residential real estate transaction.

If the 50K goes in your pocket on a re-fi, you're paying money to get it. You still wont NET $50K in cash, no matter how you slice it. Basically, you're created more "wealth" on paper, by leveraging your house to create more debt. Besides, you still had a cost involved in the remodeling. Just because you can't put a value on it, doesn't mean it wasn't there. You're right though - banks don't set the market value, but market value is a relative term. Your home might be "worth" more based on what other homes in your area are selling for, but the actual "value" is what someone is willing to pay for it. You paid 120, thats exactly what its worth in real dollars. Unless someone will write you a check today for 180k, and your total outlay to date is less than 130 you havent put 50k in your pocket.

If you paid 120 for the house, that's really all it was worth. It may have a higher appraised value (175), but if you cant sell it for that (which the bank couldn't) it isn't worth 175, or 180. You may have 50K on paper, but its not in your pocket.

Just wondering, how much did you spend on the bathroom and laundry room? Did you factor that in when you figured out your 50k? If you didn't you should have. Did you do the work, or did someone else? Buy the materials on a credit card? Don't forget to factor in the cost of your time, mileage back and forth to the big box store, etc. if you did the work yourself. While you're at it, total up what you've paid already in the cost of the house - total your mortgage payments, plus real estate taxes, insurance, etc. Go ahead and off set your tax savings, but don't forget the capital gains tax if you dont spend that money on another residence. Many rental properties allow you similar freedoms - pets, bonfires, etc. What they don't do is allow you to leverage more debt.

Saved 50,000 relative to what? What the last owner "paid" for the house, or what the house was "worth" based on former market value? Why do you think a house is nice to have? Is it a pride of ownership thing, or have you actually put money in your pocket owning one?

Couple of things on FDIC, home purchases, and banks... Your deposits are insured in the aggregate to $100K, so having $150K in three different banks still leaves you with $50k exposed. The FED cutting rates should stimulate spending, but not just by consumers at the retail level. The hope is that corporations will also invest in machinery, equipment, etc. Also a rate drop doesnt mean that more people will be eligible for credit. The way things have gone with the housing and credit card markets has most lenders tightening their credit criteria. Less non conforming loans at a better rate for people who are credit worthy is a good thing. I'll never agree that buying a house is a "good" investment. For most people all it does is allow you to leverage more debt. If you add up ALL the costs of home ownership you'd be lucky to show any return on your investment - especially in the last 5 to 7 years. If someone on here can show me otherwise, I'm all ears.

I spent about 3 seconds in the ducati booth. Walked in, walked right back out. Didn't see anything except a mass of humanity. It was PACKED in there, and about 150 degrees. They need to get rid of that totally enclosed set up - it SUCKS

No probably about it - it was you. Guess I should have introduced myself. Anyone see the $120,000 MV Agusta?

I saw a guy up there with an ohio-riders.net t-shirt on.... Guess it was you.

Are you saying that if a bike won't hold up to getting beat on, or falling over on a trailer, its a piece of shit? Man, I'd hate to sell you anything....

Congrats.... Your life will NEVER be the same again. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, but never, ever the same as it was. Enjoy it!

As long as I'm asking questions here's something else I've been wondering: Do you know your avatar is annoying as fuck? Just curious