cOoTeR Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Arizona lemon law states," Arizona Lemon Law 44-1264 Reasonablenumber of attempts.To conform motor vehicle to express warranty; presumption.A. It is presumed that areasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to conform a motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if either:1. The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents or authorized dealers during the shorter of the express warranty term or the period of two years or twenty-four thousand miles following the date of original delivery of the motor vehicle to the consumer, whichever is earlier, but the nonconformity continues to exist.2. The motor vehicle is out of service by reason of repair for a cumulative total of thirty or more calendar days during the shorter of the express warranty term or the two year period or twenty-four thousand miles, whichever is earlier."My bike has been at the dealership for warranty work on the radiator since July 8th. They determined they needed to replace the radiator but claimed the first one they ordered was backordered. Then when it showed up it had been damaged in shipping. So they had to order another one. Then they decided to try to get it fixed at a radiator shop and they said it wasn't repairable. So we have to wait until they get another one shipped in. My warranty was up on the 9th of July. Reading the requirments do you think the 30 day period has to be contained within the warranty period? Also do you think they can claim the backorder as the reason and get out of it applying for the lemon law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 just do it. any scumbag attorney should be able to make that case for you with one well written letter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnone Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 From all my research last year on Ohio law the problems didn't have to be all contained in the time period. Just started. You probably won't need a lawyer at all. Just tell then you are going pursue lemon law since it meets all the criteria. In my case Toyota dealer just bought it back from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I've still got a few days until it hits 30 days. But I'm kind of tired of this crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 well don't tell them til after it hits the 30 days cause they're just gonna dump it back on you before the 30 days is up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Reading the requirments do you think the 30 day period has to be contained within the warranty period? Also do you think they can claim the backorder as the reason and get out of it applying for the lemon law? No and no. Is this for a motorcycle? Does the lemon law in AZ for sure apply to motorcycles? It doesn't in all states. I had to lemon law a motorcycle. I got a lawyer. The moco dragged it out for over a year. By the time it was over my bike was finally fixed. I was awarded a cash settlement for time out of service and even kept the bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 2. "Motor vehicle" means a self-propelled vehicledesignated primarily for the transportation of personsor property over thepublichighways.I think it would qualify as the same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) That law read to me a 30 days within the warranty period - and it was only in the shop for a day or two before the warranty expired (July 8th to 9th). I think the lemon law no longer applies. IANAL. Ask a local lawyer for more guidance, as you clearly have a border case where it was being repaired under warranty when the warranty ran out. Of course they have to honor the warranty, but are they still held to lemon law? I think a well crafted letter from the lawyer would grease the skids at least. Be careful threatening legal action - you're just as likely to make them consult their own attorneys and switch from a "keeping the customer happy" mode to a "Do whatever won't get us sued" mode. When my Wee went in for its 600 mile service they found a problem with the starter. Suzuki dragged their heals and kept asking for more and more proof of the bad starter. Finally the delaership (Ohio Motorcycle in HIllard) put a starter from a showroom bike on mine and that fixed the problem. It was only 3 weeks old when it went in for warranty work. They had it two weeks. Edited July 31, 2013 by Scruit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 UANAL? IANAL. let's make this happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) LL cases are with the manufacturer not the dealership. Manufacturers are no strangers to LL cases. In my experience, you aren't going to 'rattle' them with a letter from an attorney. Expect the manufacturer to drag out the case as long as possible. They are hoping you will sell it, trade it in, crash it, let it get repossessed, lose interest...basically anything that would prevent the LL case from moving forward. Expect long delays, sometimes months between communication. The manufacturer has their own legal team that already knows if the claim is legitimate. If you haven't already gone away...they'll offer you a lowball settlement to try to avoid going to court. Don't accept their first settlement...be patient and make counter offers. Edited July 31, 2013 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with the radiator that it wasn't repairable? And if it's back ordered, they should have ordered it and gave you one off of a showroom bike and fixed the showroom bike soon as they received it... Is this ride now? I ended up buying my bike there, even after your warning ... The salesman seemed Ok, but the financing manager was very pushy and didn't care what I wanted.. Said I didn't qualify with honda but Yamaha did and he said I can walk out with any Yamaha I want... Left on VFR after he almost pressured me into the fz1,next day he magically got me approved for the honda... It wasn't a very cool situation, but worked out in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah I took it there because its a warranty issue I figured the dealer I bought it from was best incase something like this came up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 As far as what's wrong I don't really know. All I know is it is leaking from the inside with no damage. I don't think they can get in there to patch it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serpentracer Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) is this a brand new? because lemon laws only apply to new not used. and not sure motorcycles are included. I think they're classified as a recreational vehicle. Edited July 31, 2013 by serpentracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes its new. Yes motorcycles are covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well I'm waiting to hear back from a lemon law attorney. But I heard from a guy that works in a dealership in TX that the radiators are in stock in the warehouse in Michigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Copeland Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Honestly,it should only take a day or two for a dealership to get a new radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOoTeR Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 They called me today and said they may be able to get one next Tuesday according to "kawasaki". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Uh... You needed a new radiator and it wasn't available, they tried to fix it and it wasn't repairable. They tried to order and it was back ordered? Doesn't fall under Lemon Law. Lemon Law is essentially a deal where you say, had a radiator issue, took it in, had it covered under warranty and it was fixed. Later, it happens again, you get it repaired. It happens again or another issue pops up and warrantied. Basically, you have a string of issues that are warrantied (Recognized by the manufacturer as a defect and handled) and decide that the bike is always in for warranty work and is a "lemon". The scenario you describe could have been a lazy dealer not ordering quickly or not getting with the manufacturer with the claim, etc. Then ordered and it was back ordered or they forgot to order and used "It was back ordered" as an excuse - happens on a regular basis. Most manufacturers are at the 95% plus fill rate. But I can check with another dealer in just checking and pretending to order one and see if it is back ordered. Usually, you find out if it is or not. If not, lazy dealer and certainly not under Lemon Law... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 LL cases are with the manufacturer not the dealership. Manufacturers are no strangers to LL cases. In my experience, you aren't going to 'rattle' them with a letter from an attorney. Expect the manufacturer to drag out the case as long as possible. They are hoping you will sell it, trade it in, crash it, let it get repossessed, lose interest...basically anything that would prevent the LL case from moving forward. Expect long delays, sometimes months between communication. The manufacturer has their own legal team that already knows if the claim is legitimate. If you haven't already gone away...they'll offer you a lowball settlement to try to avoid going to court. Don't accept their first settlement...be patient and make counter offers. Absolutely wrong info here. The Manufacturer while not wanting to just fold and give a new bike, will react and move quickly. Understand that the dealership and how they prepare the warranty claim and the info they provide dictates how fast a manufacturer reacts. Here's a cool one. Buddy buys a used KX450 from a dealership. Bike had low hours and was in near new condition. MX bikes have NO WARRANTY. Nothing. It rolls out of the showroom and it is dead to the company. Then add it was used. Clinton County was the dealership... Buddy goes out and we are riding at Briar Cliff. He goes to kick it and the kick starter freezes. He's an ex-hockey player and literally breaks the case as he forces the kicker down. He takes it to Clinto just to see what can be done. He was a good customer and Clinton called Kaw. They pushed for coverage and Kawi basically covered a SET of cases (matched and only way they are sold) under Good Will. It's the dealership more than the manufacturer... But to say the OEM drags their feet is bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I will say one more thing because there is a flood of lose in this thread with the fact that it sounds more like a lazy and shit dealer than an issue with the bike. The thing I would suggest to you is to contact Kawasaki and throw a complete bitch fit. Call Customer Service and throw the dealer under the bus. The dealership probably didn't order the radiator at the right time, probably didn't warranty the thing correctly or in a timely manner and overall has caused the length of time to be as it is. Doing the greasy wheel deal will maybe net you some sort of redemption. It may net nothing. But what you will find out is whether or not the dealership is the root of the issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 That law read to me a 30 days within the warranty period - and it was only in the shop for a day or two before the warranty expired (July 8th to 9th). I think the lemon law no longer applies. IANAL. Ask a local lawyer for more guidance, as you clearly have a border case where it was being repaired under warranty when the warranty ran out. Of course they have to honor the warranty, but are they still held to lemon law? I think a well crafted letter from the lawyer would grease the skids at least. Be careful threatening legal action - you're just as likely to make them consult their own attorneys and switch from a "keeping the customer happy" mode to a "Do whatever won't get us sued" mode. When my Wee went in for its 600 mile service they found a problem with the starter. Suzuki dragged their heals and kept asking for more and more proof of the bad starter. Finally the delaership (Ohio Motorcycle in HIllard) put a starter from a showroom bike on mine and that fixed the problem. It was only 3 weeks old when it went in for warranty work. They had it two weeks. There is always more to a story. Ohio Motorcycle very well could have been the one dragging their feet. A manufacturer typically is the one that suggests pulling parts from a major unit on the floor as they are trying to get you on the road asap. We rarely do this as again, there is usually a 95% plus fill rate. But, in the effort to get the customer on the road as soon as possible, the manufacturer will have them pull parts. The manufacturer ALWAYS wants the customer out as soon as possible. I suspect in your case, it was a dealer issue and not a Suzuki issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) Absolutely wrong info here. So are you calling me a liar? Because that is exactly how it happened. I know others who had the exact same experience...so did my LL attorney.Are you saying that manufacturers are in a big hurry to give money back to you Edited August 7, 2013 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 So are you calling me a liar? Because that is exactly how it happened. I know others who had the exact same experience...so did my LL attorney.Are you saying that manufacturers are in a big hurry to give money back to you I am saying that it is your opinion that manufacturers try to delay and drag their feet... Yes, there are examples of everything negative out there. But, when you comment and make it sound like it is the norm, you are stretching the truth. I didn't call you a liar because maybe it was the case in your situation. But, understand that your lawyer wants paid and can be pressuring the manufacturer to where it makes more sense to give you a settlement than to drag it out in court. Also, maybe your case was a LL issue and maybe the OEM did drag their feet. You gave jack shit in detail - but you were quick to say stuff that I can provide several examples (More than I wish to type) where the OEM did Good Will, did it quickly ONCE THEY WERE INFORMED BY THE DEALER, and got the customer on the road quickly and to their approval. So, we can go back and forth and do this little dance or you can maybe be less general in how the process is done and give solid facts. And don't use car companies as I don't know shit about car companies. We are talking motorcycle manufacturers and that I know. Again, before you go Googling and finding every case that sides with your comments, also understand that people post and bitch about when shit goes wrong. VERY few post when shit goes well and great. In this thread as an example, everyone has a bad story. There isn't one guy other than my example of a company doing something well. Guess what? That doesn't mean it doesn't happen and doesn't happen a LOT. That simply means that people post the negatives more than the positives... When you say others... How many are others? I can give you thousands and thousands of examples of contradicting stories. I can also provide a bunch of Good Will stories that were Good Will results for customers that in no way, shape or form deserved it and were classic examples of customer neglect and not a defect or warranty issue, but the company did the Good Will anyways to get it completed... ready? Completed QUICKLY and without drama... Just let me know when you want examples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I can give you thousands and thousands of examples of contradicting stories. So you've handled thousands of LL cases. Dial it down...man. We're talking about LL cases, not good will repairs made by the dealer or OEM. And yes mine was a motorcycle LL case. Sorry, I'll trust my attorney who handles nothing but LL cases every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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