Tpoppa Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I like turtles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Mac Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Remember when they were called Peace Officers. This is a good read. Understanding “Peace Officer” vs. “Law Enforcement Officer”http://markmccoy.com/police.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Man, I'm thinking that we might want to step up the training process for OH CCL to be more rigorous again. I'm not ever gonna claim to be a tournament marksman, nor will I ever be anything that remotely resembles a spec ops-grade shooter, but some of the people in my class tonight were TOTALLY CLUELESS when it came to understanding even the most fundamental basics of firearm safety and use. After listening to and watching the lack of knowledge and experience among the participants, I'm not even sure I'll feel safe tomorrow night during the range testing. The thought that they could be walking/driving around in public carrying a SA within the next couple of weeks makes me want to stay home and lock my doors. Of the 12 people in the class, I'm not sure I'd trust more than 3-4 of 'em with anything more deadly than an air soft pistol. Instructor is ex-Marine, retired LEO with many years in RENU (narcotics), and if I was him, I'd wave my hands and cry "Uncle!" rather than graduate more than half these folks. If this is the norm for the average CCL holder, shit is gonna start to get wonky REAL QUICK!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Idiots with guns? No WAI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Idiots with guns? No WAI!When did you buy a gun!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Man, I'm thinking that we might want to step up the training process for OH CCL to be more rigorous again. I'm not ever gonna claim to be a tournament marksman, nor will I ever be anything that remotely resembles a spec ops-grade shooter, but some of the people in my class tonight were TOTALLY CLUELESS when it came to understanding even the most fundamental basics of firearm safety and use. After listening to and watching the lack of knowledge and experience among the participants, I'm not even sure I'll feel safe tomorrow night during the range testing. The thought that they could be walking/driving around in public carrying a SA within the next couple of weeks makes me want to stay home and lock my doors. Of the 12 people in the class, I'm not sure I'd trust more than 3-4 of 'em with anything more deadly than an air soft pistol. Instructor is ex-Marine, retired LEO with many years in RENU (narcotics), and if I was him, I'd wave my hands and cry "Uncle!" rather than graduate more than half these folks. If this is the norm for the average CCL holder, shit is gonna start to get wonky REAL QUICK!!!I think instructors are supposed to fail students they feel don't meet the requirements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 When did you buy a gun!?I think we're all in agreement that it would be best if that never happens. If I ever feel like I "need" a gun, it's gonna be a sad, sad day, and a terrible commentary on the state of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 You're too late. It already is a sad sad time and the state of the world is turrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 My class was like that scene in "Armed and Dangerous" where they are learning to be security guards. Every question was like:"Say someone lyin' and you know they lyin'...can ya shoot 'em?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Idiots with guns? No WAI! Magz: That was kind'a my point. As I stated, I'm a relative newb when it comes to handguns, so when I decided to buy one, I did a lot of research online on what handgun would be appropriate for my use, what was reliable, what was easy to maintain. Watched "How to" videos to learn the basics of handling, use, cleaning. That was before I even walked into a store to look at models and price. I've taken several basic handgun classes and shot 400-500 rounds thru at least 3 different caliber SAs just to get proficient with handling, aiming, safety. When I decided to go for my CCL, I assumed the class would be made up of very experienced shooters with a real need for self-protection based on occupation or other critical need. WRONG!!! The great majority of attendees were complete newbs, half of whom neither currently own a gun (they had to pass out 5 of those cute orange "dummy" pistols for training) and the ones who had purchased have NEVER FIRED their handguns that they recently purchased! The most basic concepts--how to load a round into the chamber, how to determine if the gun is in the RTF state, keeping the muzzle pointed down-range, keeping the trigger finger out of the trigger guard until target acquisition, clearing the chamber after dropping the magazine--were all totally unpracticed skills. It's as if the only reason they're getting their CCL is for "fun"....and they'll be walking among us with loaded SAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think you need to re-evaluate these people at the end of the class. If they still suck and they are passed you have a valid concern. If they don't suck or are not passed then the system is working properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Tonik: Point taken. However, I'll be very surprised if the class doesn't have 100% pass rate. Tonight is the written final exam and range test. If I find out the pass-fail rate, I'll post up tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Magz: That was kind'a my point. As I stated, I'm a relative newb when it comes to handguns, so when I decided to buy one, I did a lot of research online on what handgun would be appropriate for my use, what was reliable, what was easy to maintain. Watched "How to" videos to learn the basics of handling, use, cleaning. That was before I even walked into a store to look at models and price. I've taken several basic handgun classes and shot 400-500 rounds thru at least 3 different caliber SAs just to get proficient with handling, aiming, safety. When I decided to go for my CCL, I assumed the class would be made up of very experienced shooters with a real need for self-protection based on occupation or other critical need. WRONG!!! The great majority of attendees were complete newbs, half of whom neither currently own a gun (they had to pass out 5 of those cute orange "dummy" pistols for training) and the ones who had purchased have NEVER FIRED their handguns that they recently purchased! The most basic concepts--how to load a round into the chamber, how to determine if the gun is in the RTF state, keeping the muzzle pointed down-range, keeping the trigger finger out of the trigger guard until target acquisition, clearing the chamber after dropping the magazine--were all totally unpracticed skills. It's as if the only reason they're getting their CCL is for "fun"....and they'll be walking among us with loaded SAs.Based on what you are saying it sounds like this course can be done without ANY previous training or use. A CCL should not be a beginner course. It should only be available after passing stringent other courses. These are bloody firearms not toys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Based on what you are saying it sounds like this course can be done without ANY previous training or use. A CCL should not be a beginner course. It should only be available after passing stringent other courses. These are bloody firearms not toys! This is not how the law is set up, there is nothing required to sign up for the class. As for passing or failing, I bet they all pass, they just have to hit the target on the shooting portion. If they are having issues the instructor should work with them to get them able to hit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Based on what you are saying it sounds like this course can be done without ANY previous training or use. A CCL should not be a beginner course. It should only be available after passing stringent other courses. These are bloody firearms not toys! Since abortion is a constitutional right and ends with a death should there be multiple stringent training courses and tests before you are allowed to have one? Also, someone please post up how many people have died or been seriously injured by CHL holders discharging accidentally or wrongly. 1.5 million babies are aborted each year due to accidental discharges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Since abortion is a constitutional right and ends with a death should there be multiple stringent training courses and tests before you are allowed to have one? Also, someone please post up how many people have died or been seriously injured by CHL holders discharging accidentally or wrongly. 1.5 million babies are aborted each year due to accidental discharges.That is a completely separate issue. But I believe you mean to say fetuses not babies. They are not the same thing legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 That is a completely separate issue. But I believe you mean to say fetuses not babies. They are not the same thing legally.Really? So I can shoot a pregnant woman and only get charged with one murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Can we talk about religion next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Can we talk about religion next? Freedom of Religion, another constitutionally protected right that does not have mandatory training classes that has killed boatloads of people. The Catholics and their Crusades's, the Muslims and their Jihad or whatever they are doing? Religion has killed millions yet we don't require any training for that. And I am still waiting for someone give me some statistics where licensed CHL holders have committed a statistically significant number of accidental murders. That's the problem with the anti-2nd amendment nuts. They spout out all this bullshit about unsafe gun owners but when you look at the numbers you find out they are full of shit. And that the gun show loophole accounts for pretty much none of the illegally used guns on the streets, further filling them up with shit. And that the fucking homicide rate in the US is currently at a damn near ONE HUNDRED YEAR LOW. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I would be willing to bet that 99% of the people that have zero experience will quit conceal carrying within 3-6 months anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Tonik: Point taken. However, I'll be very surprised if the class doesn't have 100% pass rate. Tonight is the written final exam and range test. If I find out the pass-fail rate, I'll post up tomorrow. Everyone passed in my class. Even though some of those people shouldn't be allowed to hold a gun let alone conceal carry one imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Everyone passed in my class. Even though some of those people shouldn't be allowed to hold a gun let alone conceal carry one imo. How many people have these people killed or wounded since then? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Really? So I can shoot a pregnant woman and only get charged with one murder?Potentially yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 This is not how the law is set up, there is nothing required to sign up for the class. As for passing or failing, I bet they all pass, they just have to hit the target on the shooting portion. If they are having issues the instructor should work with them to get them able to hit it. I haven't taken the range exam yet, but it was described last night as having to put a minimum of 8-9 of 10 rounds into a full size torso target at distances of 3 and 5 yds, so a total of 20 rounds toward the target. Even a rank newb should be able pass that with their eyes closed. I realize that's supposed to mimic the most likely threat scenario in an encounter, but really... Since abortion is a constitutional right and ends with a death should there be multiple stringent training courses and tests before you are allowed to have one? Also, someone please post up how many people have died or been seriously injured by CHL holders discharging accidentally or wrongly. 1.5 million babies are aborted each year due to accidental discharges. Not gonna go anywhere near the abortion/religion button on a motorcycle forum, but my feeling is that CCL will become somewhat akin to the problem we all face as road users: that the state requires such minimal level of training and competency as far skills/knowledge/awareness for issuance of a driver's license, the "stupid quotient" behind the wheel of an automobile is increasing at an almost exponential rate. Apply that same scenario to CCL and you can see where I'm going. I sincerely hope I'm wrong!!! I would be willing to bet that 99% of the people that have zero experience will quit conceal carrying within 3-6 months anyway. We can only hope this is the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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