Pope Accused of Spreading Heresy

[Tpoppa]

This doesn't surprise me.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/world/pope-heresy/index.html

[Tonik]

 

I wonder if those priests that object will be taking a knee during Mass.

[Tpoppa]

I think Francis is a nice man, but a bad Catholic.

While the Catholic church was due for reform, you can't just rewrite dogma without undermining the entire religion.  It's very hard to argue that an eternal, all knowing god changed his mind because people's social opinions changes & some of the church's rules became unpopular 

 

[jschaf]

Religion in general is not a good thing.  This brand or that brand, makes no difference.  All of the proponents try to make it look like unless you subscribe to their brand you either don't know what you are talking about or are some evil fuck.  I call bullshit.

.

.

[what]

I don't think I will ever be able to say the good religion has brought to the world outweighs the bad. I wouldn't lose any sleep if the Catholic Church came crashing down tomorrow, sadly something different would just pop up to replace it, and probably worse. 

[MidgetTodd]

Religion has been the number one cause of homicide since the beginning of time. 

You are correct that the good will never outweigh the bad

[TimTheAzn]

My religion is motorcycling. Best one there is. Yes, I'm pushing it onto all of you.

[Blitz]

Many, many millions of faithful, good people call themselves religious. 

Blanket statements declaring religion to be more bad than good, or to have caused more harm than good, or to have lead to more deaths than anything else are essentially useless and provide little in the way of a compelling argument.

Any war or killing brought on by religion means those followers we're practicing their faith correctly....and were more influenced by money, power, fame, or love of self than that of God. Any criticism or judgement or shunning of the actions of others by those that are religious likewise means they're doing it wrong. 

In this season, I see many fellow Christians opening their hearts and wallets to help lift and to love those around them. And if they're doing it correctly, they should be doing it year round. I see very little else in this world that compels people to be good and decent and loving. I'm not saying any of you should be religious. But declaring it a useless cause of death and destruction is narrow minded. 

 

[what]

43 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Many, many millions of faithful, good people call themselves religious. 

Blanket statements declaring religion to be more bad than good, or to have caused more harm than good, or to have lead to more deaths than anything else are essentially useless and provide little in the way of a compelling argument.

Any war or killing brought on by religion means those followers we're practicing their faith correctly....and were more influenced by money, power, fame, or love of self than that of God. Any criticism or judgement or shunning of the actions of others by those that are religious likewise means they're doing it wrong. 

In this season, I see many fellow Christians opening their hearts and wallets to help lift and to love those around them. And if they're doing it correctly, they should be doing it year round. I see very little else in this world that compels people to be good and decent and loving. I'm not saying any of you should be religious. But declaring it a useless cause of death and destruction is narrow minded. 

 

Religion is just an extension of the tribal nature of humans. Different language? Kill 'em. Different hair/eye/skin color? Kill 'em. Different leader/philosophy? Kill 'em. The truth is if religion never existed, people would have found other reasons to kill/harm each other, religion just offers a really really good excuse to do so. My spaghetti man is stronger than your linguine man and I'm gonna prove it by killing you and making your women/children our slaves.

 

I will say that I firmly believe that organized religion is the most brilliant form of government ever conceived by man. 

 

Yay people. 

[Tpoppa]

I attempt to live my life as a thoroughly decent human being.  I've never needed any religion or ideology to convince me of that.  I just seems right to me.

If you needed religion to tell you that lying, cheating, and stealing is wrong...then deep down you are shithead.

[Blitz]

Just now, what said:

Religion is just an extension of the tribal nature of humans. Different language? Kill 'em. Different hair/eye/skin color? Kill 'em. Different leader/philosophy? Kill 'em. The truth is if religion never existed, people would have found other reasons to kill/harm each other, religion just offers a really really good excuse to do so. My spaghetti man is stronger than your linguine man and I'm gonna prove it by killing you and making your women/children our slaves.

 

I will say that I firmly believe that organized religion is the most brilliant form of government ever conceived by man. 

 

Yay people. 

Please give me the bible verse that says to kill anyone with a different language, hair, leader or philosophy....  I'll wait....

Mark 12: 30-31: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Luke 6 27-36: But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

You say organized religion is a brilliant form of government, but I say if people would put those two bible verses to good use the world would be a whole lot better place. No offense Andy, but your arguments are the typical anti-religion mutterings of someone that lacks a full understanding of the good a devoted believer can do in the world and for those around them. You're jaded by the actions of Christians in this country and their judgemental nature and hypocritical actions? Yeah well, join the club. So are many Christians.

You cannot classify the effect of religion on broad swaths of millions of people by your generalizations. It's not possible. I'm not asking you to convert. I'm simply saying it's offensive and narrow minded to make these grand statements of the uselessness of religion when I see daily people that sacrifice money, time, love and self to care for, help, feed and inspire people around them....and they GAIN NOTHING FROM IT, other than the self satisfaction that they loved their neighbor...whether they deserved it or not. I see believers drop food off at people's homes they barely know, because they know they're sick. I see people walk up and down the street shoveling neighbors sidewalks because they know they're elderly. I see people give 10% and more of everything they earn to help those around them....not straight to the church. Straight to the homeless. Straight to the hungry.

Anyway....   nobody is asking you to believe in your offensive spaghetti man. Let me know once you figure out how collagen can be formed at random...without an intelligent creator:
 

"The building blocks of life might be the 20 elements of amino acids that combine in certain sequences to form the 700,000 kinds of proteins in our body.  The number of proteins discovered is increasing and might be in the range of one million kinds.

Hemoglobin is only a chain of 146 amino acids long, a runt by protein standards in length, and yet it offers 10 X 10¹⁹⁰, of possible amino-acid combinations in order to have the exact sequence of the different kinds of amino acids.

To make the protein called “collagen” you need to arrange 1,055 amino acids in precisely the right sequence which means you need 1,055 spinning wheels with 20 symbols in each wheel to coincide exactly for the jack pot!

Thus, the odd that any protein was formed by hazard is nil."

 

 

[Tpoppa]

1 hour ago, Blitz said:

Please give me the bible verse that says to kill anyone with a different language, hair, leader or philosophy....  I'll wait....

 

I would agree with you Jamie.  Christ was a pacifist.  But every religion has bred their own brand of "we're right; you're wrong" intolerance.

Islam, on the other hand, is a deeply flawed ideology that at some point became a religion.  It's inspired quotes like:

Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”

Islam is fine justifying violence, killing, rape, and slavery in certain situations.  Even Mohammad committed murder and rape.  What??? Where did this hate speech come from??? Well it's right in the fucking Quran.  Read what's in there...you'll be surprised 

Violence https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

Rape https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/rape-adultery.aspx

Slavery https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/slavery.aspx

Women's rights https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/women-worth-less.aspx

Edited December 6, 2017 by Tpoppa

[Tonik]

For a hundred years bikers have had loud pipes, gangs that rob, murder and rape and sell crack.

Bikes are bad.

[jschaf]

Jamie- When you consider that the likely number of planets in the metaverse is most likely infinite, the odds of random combinations spawning life is more than probable. It's a given. Nothing against religion for you if it doesn't cause you to hate & makes you do good. Athiests are maligned throughout history, but many of them do good as well.

[MidgetTodd]

19 minutes ago, Tonik said:

For a hundred years bikers have had loud pipes, gangs that rob, murder and rape and sell crack.

Bikes are bad.

Yes. 

But we don't disguise it as religion and proclaim that everyone that doesn't follow us is wrong to justify ourselves. 

So cast those stones. 

Everything I do isn't always good or righteous but at least I'm transperant about. 

[Tonik]

47 minutes ago, MidgetTodd said:

Yes. 

But we don't disguise it as religion and proclaim that everyone that doesn't follow us is wrong to justify ourselves. 

That is just more of the broad brush generalities that I am pointing out. Most religious people don't proclaim that, and most bikers don't sell crack.

[MidgetTodd]

How can you speak for the masses, I'll sell anything if the Risk/Reward ratio is right

[Blitz]

3 hours ago, jschaf said:

Jamie- When you consider that the likely number of planets in the metaverse is most likely infinite, the odds of random combinations spawning life is more than probable. It's a given. Nothing against religion for you if it doesn't cause you to hate & makes you do good. Athiests are maligned throughout history, but many of them do good as well.

I find it very hard to believe that we, here on earth, happen to be the beneficiaries of enough happy coincidences to make us just extremely lucky to have conscious intelligence.

Earth a little closer to the sun, too hot for life. Earth a little further away, too cold. Earth a little bigger, too much gravity. A little smaller, we go flying off into space. Amino acids in the primordial soup line up perfectly to create the first proteins at random? DNA comes together to instruct cells how to behave spontaneously? Evolution, in its perfectly effective simplicity...just came about by accident?

Im sorry man, if you cannot see a beautiful intelligence in the creation of this world...you’re not looking hard enough.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Blitz

[what]

4 hours ago, Blitz said:

Please give me the bible verse that says to kill anyone with a different language, hair, leader or philosophy....  I'll wait....

Mark 12: 30-31: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Luke 6 27-36: But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

You say organized religion is a brilliant form of government, but I say if people would put those two bible verses to good use the world would be a whole lot better place. No offense Andy, but your arguments are the typical anti-religion mutterings of someone that lacks a full understanding of the good a devoted believer can do in the world and for those around them. You're jaded by the actions of Christians in this country and their judgemental nature and hypocritical actions? Yeah well, join the club. So are many Christians.

You cannot classify the effect of religion on broad swaths of millions of people by your generalizations. It's not possible. I'm not asking you to convert. I'm simply saying it's offensive and narrow minded to make these grand statements of the uselessness of religion when I see daily people that sacrifice money, time, love and self to care for, help, feed and inspire people around them....and they GAIN NOTHING FROM IT, other than the self satisfaction that they loved their neighbor...whether they deserved it or not. I see believers drop food off at people's homes they barely know, because they know they're sick. I see people walk up and down the street shoveling neighbors sidewalks because they know they're elderly. I see people give 10% and more of everything they earn to help those around them....not straight to the church. Straight to the homeless. Straight to the hungry.

Anyway....   nobody is asking you to believe in your offensive spaghetti man. Let me know once you figure out how collagen can be formed at random...without an intelligent creator:
 

"The building blocks of life might be the 20 elements of amino acids that combine in certain sequences to form the 700,000 kinds of proteins in our body.  The number of proteins discovered is increasing and might be in the range of one million kinds.

Hemoglobin is only a chain of 146 amino acids long, a runt by protein standards in length, and yet it offers 10 X 10¹⁹⁰, of possible amino-acid combinations in order to have the exact sequence of the different kinds of amino acids.

To make the protein called “collagen” you need to arrange 1,055 amino acids in precisely the right sequence which means you need 1,055 spinning wheels with 20 symbols in each wheel to coincide exactly for the jack pot!

Thus, the odd that any protein was formed by hazard is nil."

 

 

I'm plenty versed in religion, enough so that I chose to not be a part of it. As for showing you verses that advocate violence and harm, take a gander at a good portion of the old testament, or any religion based on the the abrahamic god. Look at the polytheistic religions that came before monotheism and the havoc they brought with them. It's tribalism in another form. I'm not going to tell you that there isn't a god, or a bunch of gods, or who knows what, because nobody 'really' knows what happens after they die and where everything all came from. People choose to believe something and put their faith into it if they need to. There's comfort in knowing that there's someone watching over you, even if you're alone. Some people need that comfort and that's fine, so long as they don't start telling other people that their way is the only way or else. 

 

Religious folk do good things every day, I'm not disputing that. Humanity does shitty things every day, and a lot of it is in the name of some god or another. That's something that can't be disputed. 

[Qman]

14 hours ago, what said:

Religion is just an extension of the tribal nature of humans. Different language? Kill 'em. Different hair/eye/skin color? Kill 'em. Different leader/philosophy? Kill 'em. The truth is if religion never existed, people would have found other reasons to kill/harm each other, religion just offers a really really good excuse to do so. My spaghetti man is stronger than your linguine man and I'm gonna prove it by killing you and making your women/children our slaves.

 

I will say that I firmly believe that organized religion is the most brilliant form of government ever conceived by man. 

 

Yay people. 

Kill one, you're a murderer.  Kill many, you're a conqueror.  Kill'em all, you're a God!

[MidgetTodd]

1 hour ago, Qman said:

Kill one, you're a murderer.  Kill many, you're a conqueror.  Kill'em all, you're a God!

Kill em all you're a Marine. 

Dont get it twisted youngster 

[Qman]

13 minutes ago, MidgetTodd said:

Kill em all you're a Marine. 

Dont get it twisted youngster 

That ain't what Dave Mustaine told me!

[jacobhawkins]

[durk]

I’ve been trying to stay out of this thread, but don’t want @Blitz to feel as though he is the only one that feels the way he does. I personally am not versed in all religions. I can only speak of my own experience as a Christian. I grew up not attending church and picking on the neighbor girl about attending church. Then I started dating her cousin(small town)at the age of 19. I started to attend church with this girl who is now my wife. It was not church that necessarily won me over, however, it was her family and the way they cared for each other as well as those outside of their family. If you have never felt or witnessed Christian love I would tell you, you are probably missing out. There is a difference in my experience. I feel my parents love and care for me, but it’s different than my in-laws. I get what some of you are saying about not needing religion to be a good person. Some of you do a lot for others and help folks out you hardly even know.

I also understand that some of you have had Christians treat you not so good, and I’m sorry for that. I would tell you a couple of things on that point. Christian is not the definition of a perfect person, and my guess is that as Jamie mentioned that person was probably doing it wrong. 

What Christianity has done for me, is taught me to put myself aside and care for others. I’m an only child and definitely needed some help in the selfish category. Truth be told I’m still a work in progress there, but well beyond where I was and where I’d be without Christ in my life. Being a Christian has also taught me to be more of a giving person, again not just thinking of myself.  I have also seen Christianity have a huge impact in my children’s lives. I have 2 teenage daughters who are awesome people that I enjoy being around. Both of whom are very carrying young ladies and are well thought of by both their peers and adults. My oldest was paid one of the greatest compliments a coach could give I believe. At the end of the volleyball season team banquet her coach said she was a coach’s dream because she was so coach able. She listens and respects authority(something her dad needs to work on with the idea of speed limits-conversation for another time). 

Guys I’m not saying I have all the answers. I do feel I have been blessed and I agree with Jamie that we are not here by just some random chance. The other thing I look at is that if I am wrong am I really missing out by living my life as a Christian. Then again what if I am right. 

Jamie thanks for the reminders of what a Christian should be in those scriptures you quoted. That love your enemies is always a tough one for a guy that used to be all about don’t get mad, get even. 

 

[what]

31 minutes ago, durk said:

I’ve been trying to stay out of this thread, but don’t want @Blitz to feel as though he is the only one that feels the way he does. I personally am not versed in all religions. I can only speak of my own experience as a Christian. I grew up not attending church and picking on the neighbor girl about attending church. Then I started dating her cousin(small town)at the age of 19. I started to attend church with this girl who is now my wife. It was not church that necessarily won me over, however, it was her family and the way they cared for each other as well as those outside of their family. If you have never felt or witnessed Christian love I would tell you, you are probably missing out. There is a difference in my experience. I feel my parents love and care for me, but it’s different than my in-laws. I get what some of you are saying about not needing religion to be a good person. Some of you do a lot for others and help folks out you hardly even know.

I also understand that some of you have had Christians treat you not so good, and I’m sorry for that. I would tell you a couple of things on that point. Christian is not the definition of a perfect person, and my guess is that as Jamie mentioned that person was probably doing it wrong. 

What Christianity has done for me, is taught me to put myself aside and care for others. I’m an only child and definitely needed some help in the selfish category. Truth be told I’m still a work in progress there, but well beyond where I was and where I’d be without Christ in my life. Being a Christian has also taught me to be more of a giving person, again not just thinking of myself.  I have also seen Christianity have a huge impact in my children’s lives. I have 2 teenage daughters who are awesome people that I enjoy being around. Both of whom are very carrying young ladies and are well thought of by both their peers and adults. My oldest was paid one of the greatest compliments a coach could give I believe. At the end of the volleyball season team banquet her coach said she was a coach’s dream because she was so coach able. She listens and respects authority(something her dad needs to work on with the idea of speed limits-conversation for another time). 

Guys I’m not saying I have all the answers. I do feel I have been blessed and I agree with Jamie that we are not here by just some random chance. The other thing I look at is that if I am wrong am I really missing out by living my life as a Christian. Then again what if I am right. 

Jamie thanks for the reminders of what a Christian should be in those scriptures you quoted. That love your enemies is always a tough one for a guy that used to be all about don’t get mad, get even. 

 

Christianity helps a lot of people, as do most all religions. For anyone where it has improved their life and the lives of those around them, getting involved in a religion is a really good thing. On the other side of things you have people claiming to be prophets or to be the direct line to god that are using other's beliefs against them and stealing their hard earned livelihood with a smile on their face. The point I've been trying to make is that religion (not specifically christianity, but all religion) gives people an excuse and an avenue to be tremendously evil and do harm against people that are seeking help or trying to help the most vulnerable and desperate. If people practiced their beliefs in private and then lived their lives by them, the world may be in a better place.