Question for Trump Haters

[Tpoppa]

He has scored some foreign policy wins.  Even CNN acknowledged that.

[motocat12]

6 hours ago, nebbish said:

Yeah, not going to happen. Even most of the Republican party hate him. We need a president that can be respected and respectful. Trump is not that man.

What if though... he started changing before the next election. He got elected once this way and has loads of room. I wonder often if the media is being baited/controlled/trolled/played

[Tpoppa]

I think Trump "could" get reelected, but definitely not a foregone conclusion.  The Democratic party needs to up their game and back someone better than Hillary and probably better than Oprah, or there very well could be a second term.  A lot will happen between now and then.

 

[2talltim]

I like the "no sugar coating" attitude he has. While it may not be very "Presidential" he not exactly lying or being "racist". 

And just because the republicans say the don;t like him dosn't mean he won't get reelected, hell they didn't like him during the last election either. 

And that's the biggest difference between Liberal's and Conservatives. A lib will get butt hurt and "loose respect" for some one that has a difference in opinion. Most (not all) conserv's will just listen to the rambleing's chuckle about them and move on. I have no ill will towards anyone reguardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, political views or income. Ill sit down have a drink talk about motorcycles or the weather all day long. I'll show them respect, dignity and treat them like any other person in the world. I might say i don't agree with that and your can also say that. But don't try to push your beliefs on me and tell me i have to change my views. That is the only time I'll get upset. There are many thing i don't agree with in the world and country. But I'm not going to tell you that you have to see it the same way. If it does't impact me I really don't care. But if my families safety, finances and liberties are being impacted i sure the hell will speak up. 

[Tpoppa]

22 minutes ago, 2talltim said:

And that's the biggest difference between Liberal's and Conservatives. A lib will get butt hurt and "loose respect" for some one that has a difference in opinion. Most (not all) conserv's will just listen to the rambleing's chuckle about them and move on.

Liberals love to believe they are the party of tolerance.  But tend to be highly intolerant of any group that has different social or political views.  Not just my opinion, this been identified by respected democrats and studies at liberal universities.  

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/28/us/fareed-zakaria-liberals-cnntv/index.html

https://www.dailywire.com/news/15909/dartmouth-study-highlights-intolerance-and-james-barrett

One of the worst examples of this was Hillary's "Basket of Deplorables" comment during the campaign.  Rather than trying to appeal to swing voters that were leaning Trump, she opted for blatant race baiting.  IMO, that single comment cost her.

 

 

[what]

Besides the stereotypical racist, the left is one of the worst when it comes to perpetuating inequality. It has become their whole platform so if inequality goes away they won't have anyone left to vote for them. Gotta keep those tensions high. 

[Tpoppa]

4 minutes ago, what said:

Besides the stereotypical racist, the left is one of the worst when it comes to perpetuating inequality. It has become their whole platform so if inequality goes away they won't have anyone left to vote for them. Gotta keep those tensions high. 

Andy, Is that a serious comment or are you being sarcastic?  I've heard that point argued from both sides.

[what]

Just now, Tpoppa said:

Andy, Is that a serious comment or are you being sarcastic?  I've heard that point argued from both sides.

It's serious. 

[motocat12]

2 hours ago, 2talltim said:

 

And just because the republicans say the don;t like him dosn't mean he won't get reelected,

Unless the GOP solves the DNC's  tank your own candidate strategy.

[ReconRat]

Yup, politicians strive for votes, which guides their media narrative. If it doesn't match their policy and platform, they do one and say the other, and blame it on the other party. Both parties do this, to varying degrees, depending on their desperation. Must see through the smoke screen, looking for the hidden agendas. And current media "foaming at the mouth hysteria" really doesn't help any at all. Throw in excessive lobbying of Congress, and the average American just isn't represented very well, and has almost no means of finding factual information. No one argues that DC is not a swamp pit, except career politicians and their kin.

[Tpoppa]

24 minutes ago, ReconRat said:

the average American just isn't represented very well

This is the most accurate statement about American politics.

Both parties are guilty as fuck.  If you still think that your party gets it, and it's the other parties fault, then you are stupid as fuck.

[Howabusa]

20 hours ago, Tpoppa said:

Why?  Because some people have a different opinion.

I'm afraid that is pretty weak.

 

Exactly what I was thinking.

[motocat12]

Some how democrats got the word prejudiced removed from the country's vocabulary.(how bad could things have been if it stopped being used) I remember it used to be a word but can't remember the last time I heard/read it. wait! samuel L jackson Pulp Fiction 1994

[Pokey]

Trump is hated mostly by the 2 political "gangs", simply because he is truly an outsider. That man is no GOP, career politician, nor is he a democrat, he ran the GOP platform simply because there is currently no chance for an independent to have a fair opportunity at winning "he beat the corrupt system". Trump is a leader for sure, you don't however have to agree with his tactics. I say again, actions/results speak louder than words, and Trump is toying and playing with so many people it is comical. We forget that we have had many non PC presidents in the past, and I most certainly don't care what anybody from another country "and in particular here" thinks negatively about my country. It is bout time for "America first", he is the American President not the world President, and no other country will EVER do more than the USA does for helping others. Getting shit done isn't always fair, hell nothing in life is fair nor is it guaranteed. We have so many government dependent people in this country it is beyond embarrassing, and more than not are just playing the system because they can. Those are multitudes of voters for the democratic party, and the democratic politicians know fully well how to continue baiting them all in for votes. Emotions, outrage, feelings, free shit..........there is your liberal progressive voting base, those will be the first people to go should we have a massive natural disaster or man made attack which changes life how we currently know it. I am a YUUUUGE Trump supporter and I make no apologies for it, he is the President this country has desperately needed for a very long time. We will find out soon a little bit more how deep the deep state is, and there will be heads rolling for sure. Trump is draining that swamp folks, and those who actually know him say he is brilliant and scary smart. Love him, hate him, loathe him.....we will ALL benefit from his Presidency. Corrupt politicians from both sides are running scared, the deep state is running scared......TRUMP is coming for them.

[Pokey]

On 1/18/2018 at 9:02 PM, nebbish said:

Yeah, not going to happen. Even most of the Republican party hate him. We need a president that can be respected and respectful. Trump is not that man.

 

(Leaving thread before I have to lose respect for more people.)

You don't have to lose respect for anyone, that sir is solely on you. Obama was beyond respectful, and look where that got us all?

[Tpoppa]

1 hour ago, Pokey said:

Trump is hated mostly by the 2 political "gangs", simply because he is truly an outsider. That man is no GOP, career politician, nor is he a democrat, he ran the GOP platform simply because there is currently no chance for an independent to have a fair opportunity at winning "he beat the corrupt system". Trump is a leader for sure, you don't however have to agree with his tactics. I say again, actions/results speak louder than words, and Trump is toying and playing with so many people it is comical. We forget that we have had many non PC presidents in the past, and I most certainly don't care what anybody from another country "and in particular here" thinks negatively about my country. It is bout time for "America first", he is the American President not the world President, and no other country will EVER do more than the USA does for helping others. Getting shit done isn't always fair, hell nothing in life is fair nor is it guaranteed. We have so many government dependent people in this country it is beyond embarrassing, and more than not are just playing the system because they can. Those are multitudes of voters for the democratic party, and the democratic politicians know fully well how to continue baiting them all in for votes. Emotions, outrage, feelings, free shit..........there is your liberal progressive voting base, those will be the first people to go should we have a massive natural disaster or man made attack which changes life how we currently know it. I am a YUUUUGE Trump supporter and I make no apologies for it, he is the President this country has desperately needed for a very long time. We will find out soon a little bit more how deep the deep state is, and there will be heads rolling for sure. Trump is draining that swamp folks, and those who actually know him say he is brilliant and scary smart. Love him, hate him, loathe him.....we will ALL benefit from his Presidency. Corrupt politicians from both sides are running scared, the deep state is running scared......TRUMP is coming for them.

I don't agree with every word, but that's actually a pretty insightful post.

[Pokey]

I am thrilled that you don't fully agree, also thrilled that you don't totally disagree.......we need more of that in this country. Being successful requires give and take, and the Dems don't want to secede at all, at least the GOP is trying somewhat. I am an independent, and I believe Mr President Trump winning, is most certainly a good thing for independents getting more of a fair shake at getting into office going forward. Term limits really does need to seriously be looked into, and there is no question we have politicians who need to be impeached.....but more than a few needs the balls to actually do it. If the President needs both mental and physical evaluations, why in the hell aren't all of Congress and Senators required to do so?

[motocat12]

5 hours ago, Pokey said:

 those who actually know him say he is brilliant and scary smart..

[Qman]

I really havent heard anything from Trump to lead me to think he is racist.   However the previous POTUS showed his racism blatantly throughout his 8 years. 

[Bad324]

On 1/21/2018 at 9:34 AM, Qman said:

However the previous POTUS showed his racism blatantly throughout his 8 years. 

oh for pete's sake I have to hear more about this...

Edited January 22, 2018 by Bad324

[Pokey]

1 hour ago, Bad324 said:

oh for pete's sake I have to hear more about this...

I wouldn't call him "racist" as that term is so misused and totally mistaken these days, but he most certainly showed racial bias in "many situations" and has quite the devotion to the multiple versions of Islam. He did more damage overall to the African American community than we can even imagine, and he had one of the most amazing opportunities in the history of this country to help smooth things over from past transgressions. I guess I will call him a race baiter more than anything else, but of course that is the platform for the DNC anyways. We witnessed mental slavery for a long 8 years at an unprecedented level, and we ALL were affected by that and still fighting that fight.

[Bad324]

27 minutes ago, Pokey said:

I wouldn't call him "racist" as that term is so misused and totally mistaken these days, but he most certainly showed racial bias in "many situations" 

this is what I was looking for. I can't fucking stand how everyone and everything is racist because they don't like something. It's ridiculous and lazy

I despised Obummer but saying he is racist is about as dumb as calling Trump racist.

[Qman]

20 minutes ago, Bad324 said:

this is what I was looking for. I can't fucking stand how everyone and everything is racist because they don't like something. It's ridiculous and lazy

I despised Obummer but saying he is racist is about as dumb as calling Trump racist.

Obummer gave preferential treatment to one race over another.  Pretty much defines "racism".

[DerekClouser]

Not sure if this exactly fits with where the thread was intended on going, BUT, nevertheless, I think I'll put my input on a few things in here...

I wasn't a fan of Hillary and I wasn't a fan of Trump.  Neither seemed to really fit with what I thought would make a good or great President, but in the end, it was the decision most of us were presented with.

Trump won... Congratulations to him on that.  We all are aboard the Trump train whether we liked it or not... and this train has been a bumpy ride to say the least. 

Here are my current issues with the current Presidency (and why I wasn't a fan of Trump to start with) ---

If his goal was to actually achieve certain regulations, constantly blaming 'Democrats' for the failures isn't the answer.  Look at his twitter feed - anything that doesn't go his way, his immediate response is 'Democrats FAULT'.  Even with the Obama haters that said Obama is to fault for X, Y, or Z.... he was able to get through a REP Majority Congress.  

He can't build stability around him because the first sign of someone disagreeing with him, Trump blasts him/her over his twitter feed and later fires them or they quit.  This isn't a good sign.when the staff you put in place closest to you, won't continue to work for you. 

His constant hypocrisy -  Lets look at the current Gov't shutdown over the Budget concerns and DACA.  Now let's take a look at his feed:

Okay, so Trump wants the wall to be included in the budget... That's something he campaigned on and he's actually trying to implement a plan (although he did campaign saying Mexico would pay for it, but that's for another topic) --- So kudos to him for actually attempting to execute something he campaigned on...

But then moments later:

 

Wait... wait... wait... You blast on your twitter moments ago that if there is no wall, there is no Deal... but then blame the Democrats for the shutdown.  This doesn't add up... If Trump isn't willing to negotiate, how can he claim democrats don't care about the military. I'm not saying Trump has to negotiate on the Wall part, he can stand his ground entirely and I'd support that, BUT, don't claim it's the opposite party's fault and they don't care about the military when the two sides can't come to an agreement. 

Let's look at another statement by Trump --- 

Most Democrats don't want unchecked illegal immigration either.  DACA isn't a regulation that prevents the deportation of ALL illegals.  It's a regulation that allows CHILDREN immigrants who came to America the opportunity to defer deportation provided they are abiding by the regulations in place: 

They came to America before turning 16 and have continuously lived in the USA since. 

Must have NO criminal record

Must be attending school or have a HS diploma/GED or been honorably discharged from the military.   

AND even then, it still doesn't give them legal status in the USA, but rather, just defers the deportation --- Isn't that what America is about?  Allowing people to come here to America and better their lives as long as they are upstanding productive citizens?  Have you seen what goes on in other 'shit hole' countries?  Look at Syria at the moment... I intrigue you to watch White Hats documentary.  It's downright scary to live in those places right now.  Complete terror every time they hear a plane fly by..  Sometimes we neglect to look at why these people are coming to America because we forget or don't understand how terrible it is in other countries.   I most recently visited Punta Cana.  Fantastic place, the resort was beautiful, the people were so nice! THEN, I took an excursion off resort.  I was shocked.  The living conditions were horrendous.  Even the worst areas of the US are light years better than what I saw there.  Who wouldn't want to escape to America? Sure, you could argue that they should do it the right way, but I work with plenty of Indian people who are trying to become American citizens and can't because the list is too long.  What are they to do?  

I'm sure the list could go on and on about things that I disagree with about Trump.  But I also will give credit where it's due.  I'm nowhere near the most politically savvy person and I'm sure there's plenty of people who could argue what I've said above to be false and there may be a few things that are actually wrong... but my point is that as an average American who looks at this the way I do are likely to see the same things.  

I dislike Trump, but I honestly believe he isn't racist.  He's a hypocrite, but I don't think a racist. 

 

[Tpoppa]

^^^

In fairness, in regard to the government shutdown, both sides could have easily avoided it if they chose to, they obviously didn't.  This was just 3 days of grand standing and posturing.  The shutdown itself is a meaningless symbol.  The shutdown under Obama (2013?) followed the same playbook.

As far as immigration, this is what I have witnessed with my own eyes ( I could post the campaign videos, but I trust we've seen them already):

• Clinton campaigned that we need to tighten our borders.  Democrats cheered.  He did little/nothing about it, Democrats said nothing.
• Bush campaigned that we need to tighten our borders.  Republicans cheered.  He did little/nothing about it, Republicans said nothing.
• Obama campaigned that we need to tighten our borders.  Democrats cheered.  He did little/nothing about it, Democrats said nothing.
• Trump campaigned that we need to tighten our borders.  Republicans cheered.  He is attempting to follow through, Democrats call him Hitler.

In regard to DACA specifically, I don't think that Trump has the intention of cancelling DACA.  Remember he said he'll give to Congress and they have 6 months to figure it out.  I think that was a negotiating tactic to get funding for the wall.  Take DACA away then offer it back to get the wall.  We'll see how it plays out.

Now, immigration big picture.  Neither dems or reps in DC give a fuck about individual immigrants.  It comes down to votes...immigrants are more likely to be dependent of gov't programs and vote Democrat.  Democrats want to maximize those potential votes, Republicans want to minimize them.  That is immigration in a nutshell...it's been that way since the Civil War . The sides have just changed a few times since then .