Religious posters removed from classroom

[Mensan]

How does this make you feel?

[supldys]

Thats a tough one, part of me says in a regular classroom, the kids shouldnt really be bombarded by any religious material. But at the same time, if this teacher advised a christian school group, they should be allowed to put that stuff up wherever they meet. I guess just tell the teacher to put it up when appropriate, and take it down when its not appropriate, although a pain in the ass, thats pretty much how you have to deal with "sue-happy" parents these days.

[cptn janks]

fine by me.

 

The question is, are they appropriate in the context of Spanish-language instruction?"

 

NO. teach kids about god in religion class, teach em spanish in spanish class.

[Conesmasher]

seperation of church and state, plain and simple.

[Mensan]

I had the same thoughts pretty much. I don't like the idea that kids should not be allowed to pray in school of their own free will. There are some places that have started trying to enforce that, and I think it imposes on their first amendment rights. School sponsored (public school) religion is not something that should be allowed, IMO.

[thorne]

I am a Spirtual person but not relgious to many poeple like to prejudge you when you say your christian. Plus to many people have diffrenst extents I have seen one chrisitan call another christian evil because they went to the movies Whoa.. So honestly i think these type of things do not belong in a classroom.

Long Winded there

[Total Sign]

I think that christian activist are starting to get to extreme. Now church and state have never been seperate. Have it in a seperate classroom.

[OGRE]

seperation of church and state, plain and simple.

 

 

unfortunatly, there is no "separation of church and state" it's a term made up that is not found in the constitution, or any federal or state law for that matter. You have just been brainwashed for so long to believe that this is there.

 

what it does say is:

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

 

do you know that the left has beat that saying into people's heads so much that an AP poll found that 67% of americans thought that "separation of church and state" was in there, it isn't.

 

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

[Mensan]

The courts have the responsibility to interpret the U.S. Constitution in specific instances. In 1947, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled:

 

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State'."

 

A simple set of criteria is that the government (and by extension public schools) may not:

* promote one religion or faith group over any other

* promote a religiously based life over a secularly based life

* promote a secularly based life over a religiously based life.

 

There is some opposition, particularly among Fundamentalist Christians to this interpretation of the First Amendment by the courts. They feel that the Amendment should be interpreted literally to mean that the government may not raise any one denomination or religion to the status of an official or established religion of the country. They feel that the First Amendment contains no wording that prohibits the government from engaging in certain religious activities, like requiring prayer as part of the schedule at public schools, requiring schools, courts and government offices to post the Ten Commandments, allowing public schools to have organized prayers as an integral part of public school sports events, praying before board of education or municipal government meetings, etc.

[Devils Advocate]

Why must religion and school mix? If you need to pray, pray at home or somewhere other than school. If your religion requires you to pray while at school, then have a meeting with an executive faculty member to set up personal time during those instances during the day. Do not force religion on those who may not share your beliefs. I think some guy named Hitler did that, didn't he?

[sgtschulze]

Why must religion and school mix? If you need to pray, pray at home or somewhere other than school. If your religion requires you to pray while at school, then have a meeting with an executive faculty member to set up personal time during those instances during the day. Do not force religion on those who may not share your beliefs. I think some guy named Hitler did that, didn't he?

 

I agree with everything except the "ole' slippery slope". If you begin letting people "practice" religion etc... during normal activities that are required for work (whether it be school or business) then you penalize those that don't practice by offering special permission to those that do. The flip side is to begin letting everyone break during ANY religious time. Imagine the school or work day going from 6-8 hours to 10 hours. With two hours unpaid for "religious" practices. Kind of like letting non-smokers take smoke breaks.

[Trouble Maker]

I think having up posters for meetings is fine because people will go to those meetings that want to. Having posters up about those meetings is nothing different from having poster up for thespian meetings or Spanish club, imho. BUT when a teacher puts religious posters up advocating what people from a certain political spectrum are doing that is definitely crossing the line.

 

I went to a really good public high school and we talked all of the time about religion, politics, news and had a lot of good debates between the students. I can never once recall a teacher voicing their PERSONAL OPINION on any subject. They were always simply the mediators of the debates and would interject as the devils advocate if everyone agreed on the subject.

 

It sounds a little wrong how they went about taking care of the situation, but that really doesn't effect how I feel this situation should end.

[thorne]

If someone wants to say a pray to them selves in a school then what does that hurt?. I mean if I am sitting next to you at lunch and you give thanks then your hurt no one and spent your own time how you see fit. I don't see giving students special lead way but if a student wanted in there own time during school to pray They have the freedom now and why should that be taken away. If we start doing things like that we might as well label our selves nazis

[Guest powers]

as faras the posters they did sent the message that X faith is practiced by the leaders of our country. That in my opinion would infulence some toward that faith. Public school is the wrong venue to impose religious ideas into young individuals who are very easily influenced.

 

Now prayer in school by a student is just the practicing of their religion. It is not an imposition of faith by the staff. It is freedom to practice his or her beliefs. Now the schools make special provisions for childern with physical diasabilties as well as students with learning impediements. If a parent would ask the school to allow their child a few minutes a day to pray well I see that as no different. Now if you say that is unfair, consider this the student more than likely would be gone the same amount of time as someone who needs to go use the restroom. By allowing the student to practice his or her religion they are in no way promotiong it. Kind of like kids who wear crosses around their neck. The school has never said anything out that, but it is an outward sign of ones faith. That same necklace could be considered an advertisement for christianity. This is ok as long as it is the student who chooses to display it. That is their consitutional right.

 

This country was not founded on christianity, it was founded on freedom of religion by christins.

[Trouble Maker]

Now the schools make special provisions for childern with physical diasabilties as well as students with learning impediements. If a parent would ask the school to allow their child a few minutes a day to pray well I see that as no different.

 

Wow, just wow.

[sgtschulze]

 

This country was not founded on christianity, it was founded on freedom of religion by christins.

 

Correct. The constitution says OF not freedom FROM religion. I don't practice my faith as frequently as I should. IMO Religion in general directs a civilization. How are laws developed etc...?? It's based on moral thought or moral consensus. Morals come from right or wrong. Which are influenced or begin as religious dogma.

 

I sound way too much like a teacher or something.... I need a beer.

 

BTW Take a look at most countries and search for their "Official" language, religion etc... you'll see that most countries endorse a language, religion etc... while the US does not. That's right folks...the US does not have an official language.

[Guest powers]

Wow, just wow.

The only thing I was saying is that school makes consessions for students who need them all the time. Perhaps a persons faith is just as important to them as anything else.

[Orion]

evolution is a religion.

[Trouble Maker]

The only thing I was saying is that school makes consessions for students who need them all the time. Perhaps a persons faith is just as important to them as anything else.

 

People chose their religion and chose to believe. I'm pretty sure if you gave any handicapped person the person a choice whether they were handicapped or not they would chose to not be handicapped.

 

It's kind of offensive to compare the two actually.

 

I'm not saying kids shouldn't be allowed to pray in school; that would be pretty dumb. I'm just saying arguing that they (any religous person) need special privileges because we slightly cater to people who can't walk because of a birth defect or don't operate at the regular intelligence level because something in their brains isn't wired quite right is the most asinine argument ever. I don't think anyone should get special privileges in a public school setting because they chose to believe in something.

 

Retards is to MH class is not like a religous person is to needing to leave class at special times to pray.

 

I'm pretty sure that would be no different than if I would say I'm choosing to believe that I have to go take a shit every hour on the hour and put it in a plastic baggie and carry it around in my backpack all day. I need to save it, one day it will be the savior of humanity because science will find a cure to cancer in my shit. But I’m not sure which shit it’s going to be. I just had a vision that it's going to be one of my steamy piles. Then I would be expecting the school to cater to that belief and that would just be dumb.

[Guest powers]

 

I'm pretty sure that would be no different than if I would say I'm choosing to believe that I have to go take a shit every hour on the hour and put it in a plastic baggie and carry it around in my backpack all day. I need to save it, one day it will be the savior of humanity because science will find a cure to cancer in my shit. But I’m not sure which shit it’s going to be. I just had a vision that it's going to be one of my steamy piles. Then I would be expecting the school to cater to that belief and that would just be dumb.

Well if the consitution said you have the right take a shit every hour and carry it around they would have to make an allowance for that.

[Mensan]

evolution is a religion.

 

Sometimes you say realy smart things. Sometimes you don't. This is one of those times.

[Trouble Maker]

Well if the consitution said you have the right take a shit every hour and carry it around they would have to make an allowance for that.

 

Nope, that's my belief.

As soon as one practices a belief on a regular basis that makes it religious.

 

Time to go take a shit.

 

You missed the point and are trying to argue semantics instead of points. I was obviously using an idiotic example out of left field (and to try to add some humor in), but that doesn't make the point any less valid.

 

You also didn't address my main point which either tells me you don't know how to debate or don't have a valid argument against it. I'll assume the later for now. I'll put it in capital letters just so you get it this time. BEING PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY HANDICPAED IS NOTHING LIKE CHOSING A BELIEF OR RELIGON. I find it sickening that you would liken the two.

 

DJ, if you don't think there is scientific grounds for the theory of evolution then you chose to say that some one would have a belief in evolution (one could say that about any 'theory'). BUT real scientists do not just pull theories out of mid air. For one they are theories to try to explain something that is really there. For two one should try to make the theory plausible, which evolution is.

 

I don't see how it's possible to religiously practice the belief of evolution. It doesn't really make sense.

 

Furthermore, to try to belittle someone for believing in a scientific theory when you yourself believe in things unseen is a little bit hypocritical don't you think?

 

Also, who said anything about evolution? Stay on topic!!! : )~

[Doug1647545489]

evolution is a religion.

 

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)

n.

 

-Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

-A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

-The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

-A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

-A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

 

 

 

ehhh no

[Kevin R.]

"I went to a really good public high school and we talked all of the time about religion, politics, news and had a lot of good debates between the students. I can never once recall a teacher voicing their PERSONAL OPINION on any subject. They were always simply the mediators of the debates and would interject as the devils advocate if everyone agreed on the subject."

 

That is how my highschool is right now, and I think it works out for the best. We can talk about whatever, argue, debate, etc, but the teacher will never make anyone feel like they are correct or wrong on the subject. It is simply just difference in opinions.

[Guest powers]

I don't liken the two. That is how you are chooseing to read what I posted. I am telling you I don't liken the two. What I am saying is that schools make all kinds of room for thnings that are needed. That being one of them. I also feel STRONGLY that people have the right in this country to practice what ever religion they want as long as it does not impose it's self on me. Now if you can't understand what I am saying you are more than welcome to talk to me about it in person. It is always easier to convey ideas that way.