Reason #10448 Why Macs > *

[lemosley01]

No, the powerpc arch is better because it is risc based and handles information better. I even said that the x86 switch isnt bad because will allow them to put the faster processor into the laptops. im not sure what the hell you were reading, but i never even specified exactly why i felt the ppc was better

 

Hardly. There is a lot of 'blurring' of lines between RISC and CISC architecture. For example, the AMD architecture if VERY RISC like, while the PPC, IIRC, relies on some CISC tricks.

 

Not as clear cut as it used to be and state of the art has advanced a VERY long way as witnessed by the efficiency of the AMD chips and the raw clock speed of the Intel chips.

 

But as far as quality parts, I doubt what you pay for is 'quality' parts - at least, processor-wise. More likely you pay a premium for that little 'Apple' logo and all of the wizbang marketing that goes behind it.

 

One of the articles I linked to even indicated that Apple overcharges outrageously for memory.

 

[edit] In my 15 years of working with Intel boxes, I have never had a processor fail. Motherboards, drive controllers, and hard-drives, but no processors. The Apple motherboard might be better - some of the stuff that is coming out of asia is absolute garbage.

[Drunkendubber]

I dont really feel like readin all of this but i'll throw in my glove for what i've seen so far.

Macs are no better than PC's why do they generally lock up less? Hardware is only made by a few vendors, limits the number of variables and possibilities of manufacturers to cut corners by creating cheaper parts that are prone to failure/interference. Quality PC = Quality Mac parts.

 

"jmr3681, welcome to OS X! Im using a six year old machine and its not doing any of that! also apple+alt+esc can be done with two fingers, ctrl+alt+del needs three fingers and two hands"

 

i can ctrl alt delete with one hand 3 fingers i dont know what kinda little girl hands you have but there is a ctrl button and alt button on both sides of most keyboards. Also i run win xp sp2 on my P2 400 just fine, the trick is I'm not an idiot which probably the reason why yours is running ok too.

 

Ben honestly comparing the g4 proc to a pentium 2 ?? i mean honestly the p2 is a whole generation behind thats like me comparing my dual core opteron to a g4

 

super computers string 1100 macs together and be the 2nd sweetest, HA!! ahahahaha!!! try 40960 processors.

 

I'm not saying risc architecture isn't good its great but that doesnt mean cisc is bad they just make up for the load with more speed.

 

Mac logic boards fucking suck, they break as much as the shit we get from dell. YOu mass produce anything and shit will break

 

Applications don't get salty but its true you just dont have the app. library with a mac that you do with a pc. Hell you didn't have a decent office sweet until Microsoft ported theirs over.

 

As for HEat and power consumption why they should have chose AMD as their winner but intel simply has the R&D to make bad ass chipsets which is probably why they went with them. AMd makes the better procs. Intel makes the best reference boards.

 

Lastly WTF is up with the unhappy folder on boot failure

[Cougar1647545494]

cougar, i dont think im smarter than anyone, i just think my computers better . but seriously, macintosh and video games are my two areas of expertise. so before you start flaming me for having a very strong opinion towards the two, go make fun of tinman because he thinks he can weld better than you.

 

Ok, but you should still know as a gamer you play it for fun, not because of who made it, who likes it, who told you to like it, what its about, what not, yadda yadda. I loved 1942, BF2 is an enjoyable game even though EA fubared it a bit.

[ohio_wookie]

Ok first, fuck you CaptainAsshat on the girly hands thing, Im used to laptop keyboards that only have the one set of alternative buttons. and i am not an idiot i still use windows suXP on a daily basis and have learned to hack at it and get in running just the way i like it, where its faster and more reliable. I personally never started bashing windows. i think that windows was a great idea (although stolen) that microsoft keeps fucking up worse and worse. i just really like the fact that os x is unix base, which brings me to the point that you said there is no app library os x itself might have a smaller library than windows, we still have the entire linux/unix library open to us.

 

and chris, im sorry i bash the games so much, if you truely enjoy the game, great! i just dont like seeing some of the stuff that developers think they can get away with. the fact that people go along with it and make some of the most mediocre games best sellers, while the great games sit on the shelf. personally i have a high standard for my work, and im just affraid that if this keeps up none ive my games will sell because they will be beaten out by BF4, CS:2024, Doom 5, Quake 6, and i cant forget WOWs 28th expansion pack.

 

Im just going to end the argument with the fact that its all opinion anyway.

[Casper]

I dont really feel like readin all of this but i'll throw in my glove for what i've seen so far.

Macs are no better than PC's why do they generally lock up less? Hardware is only made by a few vendors, limits the number of variables and possibilities of manufacturers to cut corners by creating cheaper parts that are prone to failure/interference. Quality PC = Quality Mac parts.

 

This really has nothing to do with the hardware. Its the drivers. Apple uses a limited amount of vendors for hardware so that they can test and retest the drivers. Thus, no problems with Macs crashing due to driver problems.

 

"jmr3681, welcome to OS X! Im using a six year old machine and its not doing any of that! also apple+alt+esc can be done with two fingers, ctrl+alt+del needs three fingers and two hands"

 

i can ctrl alt delete with one hand 3 fingers i dont know what kinda little girl hands you have but there is a ctrl button and alt button on both sides of most keyboards. Also i run win xp sp2 on my P2 400 just fine, the trick is I'm not an idiot which probably the reason why yours is running ok too.

 

I'm not quite sure why someone wouldn't be able to ctrl+alt+del with one hand, but whatever.

 

Ben honestly comparing the g4 proc to a pentium 2 ?? i mean honestly the p2 is a whole generation behind thats like me comparing my dual core opteron to a g4

 

I know the difference. Most don't. I was comparing relatively equal processor speads against eachother. Not equal processors. Thus, proving the Mac PPC processor is faster and more efficient.

 

super computers string 1100 macs together and be the 2nd sweetest, HA!! ahahahaha!!! try 40960 processors.

 

Actually, you're about six months behind. The world's fastest supercomputer is the DOE/NNSA/LLNL BlueGene/L. It's a cluster of IBM eServers. It has 131,072 processors. The one you're talking about is second place right now. It is the IBM Thomas Watson BGW eServer.

 

I'm not saying risc architecture isn't good its great but that doesnt mean cisc is bad they just make up for the load with more speed.

 

PPC = great in the day

x86 = better now

I already said this.

 

Mac logic boards fucking suck, they break as much as the shit we get from dell. YOu mass produce anything and shit will break

 

Mac logic boards suck? How so? I've been working with thousands of Macs for years. I've replaced 155 logic boards. Of those 155 logic boards, 145 of those were lightning strikes. Actually, it was one lightning strike. Hilliard elementary school. That sucked. The most common problem I've seen on logic boards is the NIC. It (just like most of the PCs) is on board. We had a lightning strike here at work this past season. We had 425 PCs damaged. All were NICs except for about 20 mobos. We had one Mac damaged. It was the on board NIC. I couldn't tell you how many motherboards I've replaced. Macs definitely hold up better.

 

Applications don't get salty but its true you just dont have the app. library with a mac that you do with a pc. Hell you didn't have a decent office sweet until Microsoft ported theirs over.

 

Uhm... okay. I still don't use MS Office. But whatever dude. http://www.OpenOffice.org rocks. MS Office sucks my balls.

 

As for HEat and power consumption why they should have chose AMD as their winner but intel simply has the R&D to make bad ass chipsets which is probably why they went with them. AMd makes the better procs. Intel makes the best reference boards.

 

Actually, AMD was looked at first. They said they couldn't keep up with the amount Apple wanted made. A huge problem that arose with the G5 was supply. Macs kept getting backordered because of the processors. Apple doesn't want this problem ever again, so that was part of the contract. AMD said they couldn't do it. Intel was more than happy to provide the processor. Plus, I am personally glad they went with Intel.

 

Lastly WTF is up with the unhappy folder on boot failure

 

What the fuck is up with the blue screen with a bunch of HEX that tells me I did something illegal and the computer must be shut down? The "unhappy folder" at bootup means it cannot find a bootable system folder. Its been carried over from the OS 9 days. What don't you get about it?

 

You make my brain hurt.

[lemosley01]

What the fuck is up with the blue screen with a bunch of HEX that tells me I did something illegal and the computer must be shut down? The "unhappy folder" at bootup means it cannot find a bootable system folder. Its been carried over from the OS 9 days. What don't you get about it?

 

You make my brain hurt.

 

Actually, that shit isn't so bad once you know how to read it. However, once you get to a BSOD, you're beyond the realm of the average user.

 

How does OSX handle driver problems like that? I mean, there is shit that goes on that the OS simply can't recover from (on Intel boxes, a MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION is an excellent example).

[Casper]

Actually, that shit isn't so bad once you know how to read it. However, once you get to a BSOD, you're beyond the realm of the average user.

 

How does OSX handle driver problems like that? I mean, there is shit that goes on that the OS simply can't recover from (on Intel boxes, a MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION is an excellent example).

 

 

The equivalent would be a kernel panic error, same as in Linux. Usually that's corrupt system software though.

[lemosley01]

The equivalent would be a kernel panic error, same as in Linux. Usually that's corrupt system software though.

 

Those I have seen. They're about as full of useful information (to a user) as BSODs are.

 

Hopefully easier to debug, though.

[fush]

The BlueGene/L is PowerPC. That being said don't hand the crown to x86 so easily a lot of the stuff coming out of IBM and Sun is still quite a ways ahead of x86 server hardware. The x86 vendors are catching up in large chunks but the market for the other systems hasn't gone away. Only about 5% of new installs (unix) coming out of my group at work are on x86 hardware. The main chunk is Solaris still and with Solaris 10 and the new niagara boxes it may pick up some more share from the AIX/PPC and x86/Linux offerinings.

[El Karacho1647545492]

this is the ultimate geek thread...not nerd, but geek.

[Trouble Maker]

I can ctrl+alt+delet with my one penor and not even have to use any hands.

 

On a slight related note, I got my first ever BSOD that I thought was 100% legit and I knew exactly what caused it (not just some BS of a program locking up). I accidentally pulled out a PCMCIA card that was communicating from an external device to a program at the time. The computer didn't like that too much, instant crash.

[Casper]

The BlueGene/L is PowerPC. That being said don't hand the crown to x86 so easily a lot of the stuff coming out of IBM and Sun is still quite a ways ahead of x86 server hardware. The x86 vendors are catching up in large chunks but the market for the other systems hasn't gone away. Only about 5% of new installs (unix) coming out of my group at work are on x86 hardware. The main chunk is Solaris still and with Solaris 10 and the new niagara boxes it may pick up some more share from the AIX/PPC and x86/Linux offerinings.

 

 

You're right, the BlueGene/L is a PowerPC. But not a Mac. Its a bunch of IBMs.

 

I am in love with this supercomputer: http://www.tcf.vt.edu/systemX.html

 

I want to go visit it.

[fush]

The PowerPC in the eServers is a bit more advanced than the G5 which comes in the Mac. The new quad-core p5+ stuff is dope shit.

[lemosley01]

You're right, the BlueGene/L is a PowerPC. But not a Mac. Its a bunch of IBMs.

 

I am in love with this supercomputer: http://www.tcf.vt.edu/systemX.html

 

I want to go visit it.

 

Make sure you were a rubber...wouldn't want to gum up the insides of thing.

[Tractor]

I guess I'll add my profound insight to this discussion. If macs are so great then why is it that 99% of all businesses that I deal with as an officer equipment tech have PC's. Shouldn't everyone have the "much better" mac? Why is it that I have certs in both PC and mac's, but I've never really seen customers with macs? About the only places I see with macs are schools and newspapers.

I guess I'll anwser my own question. Because macs cost to much, don't have nearly enough software, and their company sucks because they were unable to remain competitive against the PC platform. Now the only users of macs are the diehards and thats about it. Just end this and get a PC so we in the IT field don't have to waste time catering to a weak 3rd party.

 

RANT MODE /off hehe you can tell I had a fun day at work.

 

Evan

[Drunkendubber]

"uck you CaptainAsshat"

 

I didn't call you any names yah FUckface in fact i called you not an idiot

 

"is no app library os x itself might have a smaller library than windows"

I want to agree with this as an xbox fan but honestly library is really what its all about.

 

 

"Actually, you're about six months behind. The world's fastest supercomputer is the DOE/NNSA/LLNL BlueGene/L. It's a cluster of IBM eServers. It has 131,072 processors. The one you're talking about is second place right now. It is the IBM Thomas Watson BGW eServer."

 

I know ben he said the #2 computer, thats what we were talking about.

link to my info http://www.top500.org

 

"Uhm... okay. I still don't use MS Office. But whatever dude. http://www.OpenOffice.org rocks. MS Office sucks my balls."

 

you let me know how that formatting works out when you send a document to the business world that uses MS. THey own the market thats all that really matters

 

"I know the difference. Most don't. I was comparing relatively equal processor speads against eachother. Not equal processors. Thus, proving the Mac PPC processor is faster and more efficient."

 

again this doesn't prove anything the technology difference is huge because of the years in between a lot of steps were made for both sides p3's were in the giga range and not to much faster or slower than the g4s of the same time. but hell those days neither was good for graphics when you could just go get an O2 from sgi for the same price of pimp shit.

 

"Mac logic boards suck? How so?"

 

I spent enough time fucking with the lil bastards at OSU and BBY to form my own opinion. you're not the only person that has shit to fix.

 

"PPC = great in the day

x86 = better now

I already said this"

 

I have to disagree with this PPC is still a good proc it just needs the mainstream price conscious engineering effort whiiiiiich will never happen.

 

"What don't you get about it?"

 

I find it as gay as you find the Blue screen. that what.

[Drunkendubber]

Can we all just take a moment and laugh at the itanium.

[Drunkendubber]

Side topic: the new ageia physX engine. Will it be as profound as 3d accelorators?

[lemosley01]

Side topic: the new ageia physX engine. Will it be as profound as 3d accelorators?

 

No. We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of 'real world' physics, but, frankly, in gaming it is almost not needed. How 'realistic' can you make something and still have it be fun? Honestly, real world physics are not fun. They suck.

 

There will be many interations of coprocessors for that kind of math. Being the first isn't always the best in what could potentially be an emerging market.

 

S3 Virge ring any bells?

[lemosley01]

Can we all just take a moment and laugh at the itanium.

 

Is Intel still pushing that thing?

 

What a clusterfuck. I think Intel got too smart. They kind of forgot past history - like how many years it took to move from 16 bit to 32 bit software even though the processors were commonly in use. Why did they think people would just dump their existing software or 'upgrade' to a more expensive machine that runs their existing software slower?

 

I nominate Intel for the 'Poor Market Understanding' award of the decade.

[El Karacho1647545492]

I nominate Intel for the 'Poor Market Understanding' award of the decade.

Honda clearly wins that for being the most off-target with their demographic aim with the Element. It was supposed to be for the SoCal surfer/hipster/Hollister-loving teenagers, and the only people I ever see driving it are economically-minded fortysomethings that favor utility over all else.

[Cougar1647545494]

It, for the most part, is opinion. I agree on the majority of games being trash that game developers push out to make a buck.

[Drunkendubber]

No. We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of 'real world' physics, but, frankly, in gaming it is almost not needed. How 'realistic' can you make something and still have it be fun? Honestly, real world physics are not fun. They suck.

 

There will be many interations of coprocessors for that kind of math. Being the first isn't always the best in what could potentially be an emerging market.

 

S3 Virge ring any bells?

 

I'm not interested in RW physics so much as I am interested in the number of interacting objects that it will allow in a game. Particles especially. Not to mention blowing just about anythign into little pieces

[lemosley01]

Honda clearly wins that for being the most off-target with their demographic aim with the Element. It was supposed to be for the SoCal surfer/hipster/Hollister-loving teenagers, and the only people I ever see driving it are economically-minded fortysomethings that favor utility over all else.

 

Yes, but the element is actually selling. Unlike the Itanium.

[Mark1647545493]

Here at Sterling we have about 900 production servers in our data center and maybe another 5 or 600 servers in our lab. Of those 1400 + servers 700 or so are Windows machines and the rest are Unix/Linux (not including the 3 mainframes or anything to do with SAN). Not one server is a Mac. Why is that other than price and software availablity?

 

I'm not saying I like one machine over the other because I use an XP machine, an old IMac DV that I got from our Marketing dept. and I have Linux on a Compaq server and they all have they're own good and bad qualities.