Anyone wanna talk healthcare?

[Tractor]

Its been in the news lately and I enjoy reading what the CR members have to say. So what about it? How does the US handle the health care stuff? I don't know about "socialized" health care as the key, but I know I don't got any better ideas besides capitalized health care, but thats just mean:-)

 

Evan

[kirks5oh]

the only thing wrong with the current health care system is that physicians don't make enough money, period. if medicare and other care providers keep cutting their reimbursment rates for physician services, a crisis will soon occur, and physicians will go on strike----and you thought it was bad when teachers go on strike, and your kids don't go to school for a week.

 

back in the early '80's, surgeons were reimbursed around $5,000 by medicare to perform a total knee/hip replacement on a patient. today, you get about $1200. think about the difference (taking into account inflation), and you'll realize doctors don't get paid shit.

 

some pediatricians barely break $100k per year, still working 60 hours a week. you could make that money sweeping the floors 12 hours a day at a factory. and people think doctors get paid too much--fuck off.

 

edit: 'fuck off' is not directed at the original poster

 

kirk

[RedRocket1647545505]

the only thing wrong with the current health care system is that physicians don't make enough money, period. if medicare and other care providers keep cutting their reimbursment rates for physician services, a crisis will soon occur, and physicians will go on strike----and you thought it was bad when teachers go on strike, and your kids don't go to school for a week.

 

back in the early '80's, surgeons were reimbursed around $5,000 by medicare to perform a total knee/hip replacement on a patient. today, you get about $1200. think about the difference (taking into account inflation), and you'll realize doctors don't get paid shit.

 

some pediatricians barely break $100k per year, still working 60 hours a week. you could make that money sweeping the floors 12 hours a day at a factory. and people think doctors get paid too much--fuck off.

 

edit: 'fuck off' is not directed at the original poster

 

kirk

 

 

Nursing FTW.

[Tractor]

Wow I didn't expect to hear an argument like that. I don't believe you. Doctors live in New Albany and drive nice cars. I have a hard time believing any factory worker makes that much for real since if they do they must be dumbasses or something. There always bitching and don't have crap to show for those paychecks everyone is always talking about them getting. Okay back to health care.

 

If its true about doctors then how do they pay off there college loans and move on to the top of the middle class if not higher. Sure they don't end up in the top 5% richest group, but they don't have to worry about money either. I agree though that I think the system steals most of the profits, but I can also tell you that my sister in law is a nurse and I do her taxes and she started out at riverside doing over 70K per year and actually ended up more like 80 to 90K after all the over time they get forced into working. I hear hospitals make a boat load and I guess OSU is expanding a huge amount over the next few years. Proof is in the hospital expansions all around us.

I guess is just sucks that people profit from helping people get well, but what else do you do about it? Giving it away for free would force the government to regulate how much doctors would make. Basically making them a normal low end middle class wage and probably causing quality to go down at least for a little while until people who want to do the job get in and the greedy assholes get out.

 

Evan

[TTQ B4U]

We have three doctors and a lawyer in our family and it's true...Doctors make good money, but not what you think for what they put in. Overhead is killer. My sister in law pays over $126k per year for Malpractice insurance alone. Add in the staff and rent, etc....tons of costs and she walks away with less than $200k/yr.

 

My brother in law in Oregon has a thriving practice and knocks down some serious cash, but he works 14hr days to do it. We laugh because he makes roughly double what I do, but he works 3x as hard to do it. While he's working I'm playing with the kids and enjoying days off with little worries.

 

My other sister in law is also a doc here in Ohio and just starting out. Again, overhead is tough and she basically works until about 3pm every day to break even. According to my brother in law, last year she only brought home just over $110k....after what 13 years of school and training, and long hours and days of work and living like crap for years...makes me love my sales job more every day.

 

There will always be exceptions and variations in income as there are a number of related practices in the medical field. Keep in mind though, there are basically two types of doctors....those that do very well, lead a modest lifestyle and have tons of cash and then there are those that live well above their means and will die with more debt then they could make in two lifetimes. That's being said sarcastically of course, but all three docs in my family say it's not too far off reality.

 

Even my wifes law practice is tough. Revenue is awesome for her being solo, but after all the related expenses, especially payroll for her staff, the bottom line is far lower than you'd think. Still good mind you, but there's hardly a day that goes by where she doesn't think about cashing it in and going to work for a firm as a senior player. If it wasn't for the flexibility which is needed for our kids, she prolly would...and make more money to boot.

 

Wow I didn't expect to hear an argument like that. I don't believe you. Doctors live in New Albany and drive nice cars. I have a hard time believing any factory worker makes that much for real since if they do they must be dumbasses or something. There always bitching and don't have crap to show for those paychecks everyone is always talking about them getting. Okay back to health care.

 

If its true about doctors then how do they pay off there college loans and move on to the top of the middle class if not higher. Sure they don't end up in the top 5% richest group, but they don't have to worry about money either. I agree though that I think the system steals most of the profits, but I can also tell you that my sister in law is a nurse and I do her taxes and she started out at riverside doing over 70K per year and actually ended up more like 80 to 90K after all the over time they get forced into working. I hear hospitals make a boat load and I guess OSU is expanding a huge amount over the next few years. Proof is in the hospital expansions all around us.

I guess is just sucks that people profit from helping people get well, but what else do you do about it? Giving it away for free would force the government to regulate how much doctors would make. Basically making them a normal low end middle class wage and probably causing quality to go down at least for a little while until people who want to do the job get in and the greedy assholes get out.

 

Evan

[Conesmasher]

Wow I didn't expect to hear an argument like that. I don't believe you. Doctors live in New Albany and drive nice cars. I have a hard time believing any factory worker makes that much for real since if they do they must be dumbasses or something. There always bitching and don't have crap to show for those paychecks everyone is always talking about them getting. Okay back to health care.

 

If its true about doctors then how do they pay off there college loans and move on to the top of the middle class if not higher. Sure they don't end up in the top 5% richest group, but they don't have to worry about money either. I agree though that I think the system steals most of the profits, but I can also tell you that my sister in law is a nurse and I do her taxes and she started out at riverside doing over 70K per year and actually ended up more like 80 to 90K after all the over time they get forced into working. I hear hospitals make a boat load and I guess OSU is expanding a huge amount over the next few years. Proof is in the hospital expansions all around us.

I guess is just sucks that people profit from helping people get well, but what else do you do about it? Giving it away for free would force the government to regulate how much doctors would make. Basically making them a normal low end middle class wage and probably causing quality to go down at least for a little while until people who want to do the job get in and the greedy assholes get out.

 

Evan

 

 

You make a very good point from people profiting from the "wellness" of others, but that is very true in all walks of life.

 

But the reason why our health care system is on the cutting edge is because there is money to be made. If there was no profit to be made in the health care industry, the health care industry would begin to disapear.....hospitals would start to go out of business and there would be a lot more funeral homes in operation.

 

There is another ring of truth when you say that "hospitals" are expanding.....that's because people have the money to spend on health care and all of the "boomers" are really starting to need it. They are the ones with all the money and they want to stay alive!!

 

I can't fall for the system keeping the man down philosophy, it's just too depressing.

 

 

There are two things that make me realize that government controlled healthcare won't work.

 

#1 - Social Insurance and Medicare have failed.......they have been bankrupt for a long time

 

#2 - I am POA for my 90 great aunt. We recently have made a couple of different trips to the hospital for a variety of reasons. You know what the first words coming out of their mouths before a procedure is performed......"Is she Medicare or Private Insurance"

 

 

 

 

 

HEALTHCARE IS A PRIVELAGE, NOT A RIGHT.

[HotCarl]

 

some pediatricians barely break $100k per year, still working 60 hours a week. you could make that money sweeping the floors 12 hours a day at a factory. and people think doctors get paid too much--fuck off.

 

Kirk, do you have the name of this imaginary warehouse where I can make 100k a year working 60+ hours a week @ 12.00/hour? sweeping floors no less?

[verse]

Kirk, do you have the name of this imaginary warehouse where I can make 100k a year working 60+ hours a week @ 12.00/hour? sweeping floors no less?

 

No shit.

[kirks5oh]

Kirk, do you have the name of this imaginary warehouse where I can make 100k a year working 60+ hours a week @ 12.00/hour? sweeping floors no less?

 

 

maybe a little bit of an exaggeration, but my dad worked at the ford engine plant #2 in brookpark ohio for 20 years, as high school dropouts swept the floor for 12 hrs a day, and then drove away in lincolns. i'll have to ask him exactly how much they made, but it shocked me.

[kirks5oh]

Wow I didn't expect to hear an argument like that. I don't believe you. Doctors live in New Albany and drive nice cars.

 

If its true about doctors then how do they pay off there college loans and move on to the top of the middle class if not higher. Sure they don't end up in the top 5% richest group, but they don't have to worry about money either. Evan

 

 

i'm pretty well-aware of how much doctors make. family practice doctors, and pediatricians don't make squat. they have to bust their ass, and see tons of patients per day to make a profit---that is why peoples' doctors visits are 15 minutes or less.

 

imagine going to 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-5 years of medical residency, and then earning around $100k per year when you get out in private practice. you would have most likely $150-200k in med school loans, a mortgage, car payments, a family, etc.. all the while worrying about people trying to sue the shit out of you, so they can win the "great american lottery". you quickly understand why fewer college students want to go into medicine. if things are the way they are right now, i would NOT recommend my children going into medicine.

 

now nursing, on the other hand, is a great career right now. my wife is a nurse, and i can tell you they make great, great money, for someone coming right out of a 4 year college. they can make $22-25/hr right out of the gate, and then sign 'weekend-only' contracts, where they work weekends, and make $40/hr.

[Adam]

lincolns aren't expensive and 100k isn't anything to scoff at

 

healthcare doesn't need to be provided if the gov wants to do anything make healthcare affordable so someone can pay for the regular stuff themselves

[kirks5oh]

lincolns aren't expensive and 100k isn't anything to scoff at

 

healthcare doesn't need to be provided if the gov wants to do anything make healthcare affordable so someone can pay for the regular stuff themselves

 

 

when you look at what the previous generation of doctors made, then $100k is something to scoff at. my brother is just finishing med school, and his loans will be around $200k--and he had some scholarship $$, and OSU is fairly cheap for a med school. i went to med school there about 5 years ago, and my loans are only $140k--so you can see med school is getting much more expensive.

 

when you come out of residency, and have $200k in loans, that's like having an extra mortgage, especially since most people try to pay off their loans in 10 years. picture trying to pay off an extra house, and you will understand $100k isn't shit. also consider we're not talking about people coming fresh out of college. we're talking about people who have been through AT LEAST an additional 7 years of school/training after a traditional 4 year college. these people usually have wives, kids, etc. they're already 7 years behind the typical person who starts their career right out of college.

 

i'm not bitching for myself, but i'm bitching for other physicians. this june, i'll be done with my 5th year of residency, and i have a one year fellowship in hip/knee replacement surgery in tampa, before i go into private practice. i'm lucky enough to have already signed a job contract, and be in a medical career that is still fairly good when it comes to reimbursment

[NTHER91]

so if a doctor makes 100k a yr and has 200k in loans why dosnt the doctor stop buying 400k houses and a benz and pay off his shit quicker

 

of course this dosnt reflect anyone on cr but your a doctor its your fault you have so much debt live with it

[Mensan]

Kirk, do you have the name of this imaginary warehouse where I can make 100k a year working 60+ hours a week @ 12.00/hour? sweeping floors no less?

 

Almost any factory. I know an electrician at a refinery in Pennsylvania that made $250K in one year. That's with a HS education, no degree. The jobs are out there, you just have to look for them.

[kirks5oh]

so if a doctor makes 100k a yr and has 200k in loans why dosnt the doctor stop buying 400k houses and a benz and pay off his shit quicker

 

of course this dosnt reflect anyone on cr but your a doctor its your fault you have so much debt live with it

 

 

not sure if that was directed at me, cause i don't drive a benz, and i live in hilliard.

like i said, i've lived with my decision to go into medicine, and am still happy/positive about MY future in medicine. i've already signed a contract where i will not likely have to pay off a single cent of my med school loans, put money down on 5 acres of lakefront property in wisconsin, and a great signing bonus. but i would consider orthopedic surgery the top 5% of salaries obtainable in medicine--its a hard career to get into.

 

i drive nicer cars than most of the family doctors/pediatricians around, and i'm still in my residency. medical residents are typically limited to 80 hours of work per week, but some programs (like ours) allow moonlighting (working extra time at different hospitals for much more $$--like $75/hr in some instances). so not all of medicine is bad, but the 'golden years' of this career are in the past.

[NTHER91]

not to you i mean your a doctor we need more just wish they didnt complain cuz they are only making 300 k this yr

[kirks5oh]

not to you i mean your a doctor we need more just wish they didnt complain cuz they are only making 300 k this yr

 

i hear you.

but keep in mind the average dentist makes much more than the average doctor. i'm not arguing for those making $300k, only for the poor bastards that come out having spent their whole life in school, at age 30, and $100k is their maximum salary.

[Tractor]

"Oh BOO HOO I"m a poor doctor that had to go to school for at least 8 years and I only make 100 to 150K per year and I have all these school loans." Thats just a bunch of crap.

Loans can get paid off. Its not that big of a deal and I'll trade any doctor straight up right now for that problem. Lets seem them deal with making 20K per year and dealing with loans, kids, all the same problems. Its ratios. I'd rather have to spend 70% of 150K to live and have the 30% remaining than 70% of 20K and have to manage with the remaining 30% of that to enjoy exsisting and I know you all would too.

 

I agree healthcare is cutting edge because there is money to be made. If there weren't I'm sure it would be crappy as hell just like Canada and Europe.

I also agree that healthcare is a privilage, but ain't that mean:-) I guess poor people just shouldn't get sick. Oh and any illegals found trying to get medical help can get free treatment, but there payment is that they should be shipped back home. They should be greatful that they got sick/injured in the US and got to live. That should be enough for them and they should just stay home. hehe I'm on a mean streak:-)

 

Oh and one more thing. Most people who get a 4 year degree still never come close to making 100K per year at their jobs with most starting less than 30K per year for there first few positions.

 

Evan

[LJ]

Almost any factory. I know an electrician at a refinery in Pennsylvania that made $250K in one year. That's with a HS education, no degree. The jobs are out there, you just have to look for them.

 

Not so much anymore, that is why the United States is turning to a service based industry and we have such things as the "Rust Belt" etc (among many other factors)

 

The days of the 100k factory worker are all but over

[LJ]

Oh and one more thing. Most people who get a 4 year degree still never come close to making 100K per year at their jobs with most starting less than 30K per year for there first few positions.

 

Evan

4 year degrees aren't worth as much as they used to be. That is one reason why socialized college would be the downfall of this country

[kirks5oh]

"Oh BOO HOO I"m a poor doctor that had to go to school for at least 8 years and I only make 100 to 150K per year and I have all these school loans." Thats just a bunch of crap.

Loans can get paid off. Its not that big of a deal and I'll trade any doctor straight up right now for that problem. Lets seem them deal with making 20K per year and dealing with loans, kids, all the same problems. Its ratios. I'd rather have to spend 70% of 150K to live and have the 30% remaining than 70% of 20K and have to manage with the remaining 30% of that to enjoy exsisting and I know you all would too.

 

Oh and one more thing. Most people who get a 4 year degree still never come close to making 100K per year at their jobs with most starting less than 30K per year for there first few positions.

 

Evan

 

i'd like to take the opportunity to disagree with most of everything quoted above. 1st off, medical school is not easy to get into. most people go through college not knowing what it really means to take a difficult classload/work their asses off for grades. where i went to college (miami of ohio) 1000 people in my class started out pre-med. 112 got into med school.

 

 

so of course a lot of people would trade places with people who get into medical school. that doesn't mean they're capable of doing the job--the same way i could never be a computer programmer. medical residency takes a serious toll on someone (timewise, socially, mentally, financially, and healthwise). so you're damn right i expect to earn a great living having survived through pre-med, busting my ass through med school to get into a good residency, and surviving residency, without getting "weeded out" as we say. and in the end, medicine is not a career, its a lifestyle. when i go home at the end of the day, i'm still on call

 

 

and you're flat out wrong when you say few college grads earn over $100k in their careers

[OSUGT]

Healthcare is a major issue. In my line of work, unpaid medical bills destroy otherwise good credit. In turn, I cannot get financing in some cases. Kind of a trickle down effect on the economy in a sense.

 

I would like to see tort reform to eliminate unnecessary lawsuits, I would like illegals not to have access to public healthcare and I would like a census taken of the 40+ million people without healthcare to ask if they voluntarily choose not to have it.

[Tractor]

I'm not attacking anyone on here personally so cool down just a little. I don't know any of you so I can't attack anyone in that maner.

 

Well I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of college grads do not make as much as you seem to think. The only exceptions for higher paying jobs are the people who get into a profession such as doctors, engineers, lawyers, even alot of business grads don't make that kind of money for a long time. I bet if we all went to class reunions from HS and laid out tax forms on the table you'd see what I mean. 10 years out the doctors are just graduating, but I can tell you they are making far more than most any of the others that went through 4 years and have had the rest of the time to build job experience and hunt around for a good paying (to them) job. Of course on that same note I bet we might see that doctors don't increase in salary nearly like the others can.

 

I agree I hope to hell a person that puts that much work into schooling could make alot of money. I just don't agree that they have it rough. That was the point I was making.

Also I'm sure that a great number of those 1000 who signed up for pre med really truely knew what they where getting in to. I'm sure its hard schooling and if its not it should be, but saying that about 11.2% made it through only has meaning if 100% of them were giving 110% effort.

 

I was kinda hoping this would go more towards healthcare instead of doctors and salaries, but I guess I even hijacked my own thread:-) Thanks OSUGT for getting us back on track.

[TTQ B4U]

I agree. We require 4 year degree's and pay very well, but it's not about the degree. Even in my previous jobs, where folks in sales and engineers make $75-$150k it's more about their experience in the field and on the job that gets them the money.

 

I think that's one thing that goes hand in hand with your comment...companies used to look for a degree and pay more for that. Today, however, I think they expect you to have a degree and pay for the experience.

 

4 year degrees aren't worth as much as they used to be. That is one reason why socialized college would be the downfall of this country

[kirks5oh]

I'm not attacking anyone on here personally so cool down just a little. I don't know any of you so I can't attack anyone in that maner.

 

 

I agree I hope to hell a person that puts that much work into schooling could make alot of money. I just don't agree that they have it rough. That was the point I was making.

Also I'm sure that a great number of those 1000 who signed up for pre med really truely knew what they where getting in to. I'm sure its hard schooling and if its not it should be, but saying that about 11.2% made it through only has meaning if 100% of them were giving 110% effort.

 

I was kinda hoping this would go more towards healthcare instead of doctors and salaries, but I guess I even hijacked my own thread:-) Thanks OSUGT for getting us back on track.

 

 

i'm not complaining for myself, i'll be in the minority of physicians who never have to worry about money (hopefully), and can live comfortably (not extravagantly). being in the medical career means working your ass off, and CONSTANTLY trying to cover your ass so you don't get sued when someone experiences a recognized complication (post-surgical wound infection, etc). it IS a reality that the average surgeon will be sued AT LEAST twice during their career. and by sued i mean lawsuits that actually go the distance and don't get thrown out immediately.

 

it IS true that many students going into pre-med are 'pretenders', and get weeded out in the first year. but at least 500 out of the 1000 make it to organic chemistry, which cuts the filed in half.

 

just keep in mind there are plenty of physicians out there who drive hyundais and toyotas.

 

kirk