Mallard Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Obviously not enough. Drastic times call for drastic measures. The truth is that right now we dont need them. As we build up the economy they can build their business back up as well. Making and trying to sell cars and car parts that are not being purchased insnt exactly a smart investment. Yes it will hurt the economy... but giving them money and letting them do what they are doing now is just prolonging the inevitable. The problem is, if you lay off a UAW employee they still get 95% of their pay. So it's in their favor to continue to build cars and sell them for a loss/have excessive inventory/etc. sometimes. It also means that the cuts that save the most money come from the engineering staff. The buyouts going on at Chrysler right now are ridiculous! They're buying out so many people they're either going to have to re-hire them, or go out of business. There are a lot of suppliers that will go bankrupt if one of the "big 3" file for Ch. 11. My fiance just lost her job this morning, along with a lot of other engineers at her company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 The problem is, if you lay off a UAW employee they still get 95% of their pay. So it's in their favor to continue to build cars and sell them for a loss/have excessive inventory/etc. sometimes. It also means that the cuts that save the most money come from the engineering staff. The buyouts going on at Chrysler right now are ridiculous! They're buying out so many people they're either going to have to re-hire them, or go out of business. There are a lot of suppliers that will go bankrupt if one of the "big 3" file for Ch. 11. My fiance just lost her job this morning, along with a lot of other engineers at her company. They need Congress on their side against the UAW. How long is the wait to get a job at Honda? What do you make there? It's prevailing wage right? about $23.50/hr or so? There is no reason that the Big 3 need to give in to the UAW. Restructure, pay prevailing wage, all will be well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Let's see what happens. First thing should be to sell off those private jets. And make Alan Mulally move to the south side of Detroit from Seatle and put his money into that community if he wants taxpayers money. I'm not really serious about the moving part but the plane thing should be a reality along with either a house cleaning of higher ups, or big, I mean big, salary cuts for the higher ups until that money is paid in full and they can afford to pay better salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Let's see what happens. First thing should be to sell off those private jets. And make Alan Mulally move to the south side of Detroit from Seatle and put his money into that community if he wants taxpayers money. I'm not really serious about the moving part but the plane thing should be a reality along with either a house cleaning of higher ups, or big, I mean big, salary cuts for the higher ups until that money is paid in full and they can afford to pay better salaries. Why should they sell the plane? They have plants in other countries, not to mention the fact, I'm pretty sure the market for multi-million dollar private jets is not very strong right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 From April of 2007..... http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/companies/ford_execpay/ Sheesh...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Why should they sell the plane? They have plants in other countries, not to mention the fact, I'm pretty sure the market for multi-million dollar private jets is not very strong right now because they can fly like the rest of the population does. That is an immediate expense that can be cut and not needed. Are there no first class flights to plants all over the world? My point is they can "rough it a little" if you call "first class" roughing it..... The general Population couldn't reconize these three in a line up if we tried. What is the need for private flights? Security? I don't think so, I can't even take my bottle of shampoo on board a freakin' plane. I have to put some in a smaller bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88lx5oh Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 They need Congress on their side against the UAW. How long is the wait to get a job at Honda? What do you make there? It's prevailing wage right? about $23.50/hr or so? There is no reason that the Big 3 need to give in to the UAW. Restructure, pay prevailing wage, all will be well. it takes a while to get on at honda, i have been a temp out here for 3 years i make close to $19 an hour as a temp. just had my interview for full time last month top wage as a full time honda associate is somewhere like $25.60 or so an hour, that would be your average line worker, then it will go up from there, for TL, coordinators, and what not. if the big 3 dont get bailed, it will be good and bad we will get fucked most of our distributers make parts for GM too, and we couldnt make enough cars to keep those companies in business. on the other hand, if they dont get bailed out, then honda sales will improve, people who cant buy a gm, ford, or chrysler will be forced to buy somethgin else, which means they may buy a honda. we are getting hit pretty good right now too though. they cut all overtime, no matter what right now. i think we are going to be taking a few more days off during xmas, and there is rumor of decreasing production numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 because they can fly like the rest of the population does. That is an immediate expense that can be cut and not needed. Are there no first class flights to plants all over the world? My point is they can "rough it a little" if you call "first class" roughing it..... The general Population couldn't reconize these three in a line up if we tried. What is the need for private flights? Security? I don't think so, I can't even take my bottle of shampoo on board a freakin' plane. I have to put some in a smaller bottle. Read the 2nd part of the post. Even if they put them up for sale, it's not going to take anything off of the balance sheet for probably a few years. They would save more money by just using it and depreciating it rather than having it sitting there unused while trying to sell it for years. The issue with the jets when they went to Washington was that all 3 left Detroit at the same time on their separate jets, when they could have taken one. The other issue is, you can't really conduct business on a commercial flight from Detroit to China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 it takes a while to get on at honda, i have been a temp out here for 3 years i make close to $19 an hour as a temp. just had my interview for full time last month top wage as a full time honda associate is somewhere like $25.60 or so an hour, that would be your average line worker, then it will go up from there, for TL, coordinators, and what not. if the big 3 dont get bailed, it will be good and bad we will get fucked most of our distributers make parts for GM too, and we couldnt make enough cars to keep those companies in business. on the other hand, if they dont get bailed out, then honda sales will improve, people who cant buy a gm, ford, or chrysler will be forced to buy somethgin else, which means they may buy a honda. we are getting hit pretty good right now too though. they cut all overtime, no matter what right now. i think we are going to be taking a few more days off during xmas, and there is rumor of decreasing production numbers So $53,248 as a line worker with NO overtime + benefits. I am pretty sure that people would be kicking down the door at the Big 3 if they paid that, rather than the bullshit # that the UAW forces them to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88lx5oh Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 So $53,248 as a line worker with NO overtime + benefits. I am pretty sure that people would be kicking down the door at the Big 3 if they paid that, rather than the bullshit # that the UAW forces them to pay. with the HEP check, and profit sharing and what not, normal line worker will do about $61k a year, no overtime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaze Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 What is the need for private flights? Security? Bingo. All three companies said they required their chief executives to fly on private planes for security reasons. None would identify the type of plane used or the number of people who traveled to Washington. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bailout20-2008nov20,0,1807355.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Also in the 21st century how about holding a Web conference or meeting if it is on the other side of the world. DO you really need to "be" there? Networks are there, i do this for my cable bill fee with my father in AZ. Not as good as shaking his hand, but he gets to see his grandaughter otherwise no contact because he can't afford to fly here right now. It seems like common folk make things work, and 1%ers have a different set of rules, I really don't care that you are accustomed to flying private. If I lose my job, I may be accustomed to living in my house, but if I can't pay the mortgage, I'm pertty sure I don't get to keep the house..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Also in the 21st century how about holding a Web conference or meeting if it is on the other side of the world. DO you really need to "be" there? Networks are there, i do this for my cable bill fee with my father in AZ. Not as good as shaking his hand, but he gets to see his grandaughter otherwise no contact because he can't afford to fly here right now. It seems like common folk make things work, and 1%ers have a different set of rules, I really don't care that you are accustomed to flying private. If I lose my job, I may be accustomed to living in my house, but if I can't pay the mortgage, I'm pertty sure I don't get to keep the house..... Wow... much experience managing? I could have people in Texas send me video of wells going in down there, but every so often we have to go down and check things out ourselves to make sure everything is going smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 SO for the brief time you are there things can not be made to seem they are going well? Hell we have managers that came down to our sales floor in our store when the new director had his first few days on the job last week, and they told everyone on the floor to "act busy". So yes I do understand. The truth is really, CEOs and executives are so far removed form daily operations that a visit means nothing. I can see this in our little bookstore, let alone one of the big 3. BTW why are the plants all over the world? Don't we need jobs here? Oh yeah the UAW is not in other countries...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragknee66 Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 ""Democrats want spending plan from Big Three automakers before agreeing to any bailout, two Democratic sources tell CNN"" I can agree with this.. before shelling out the money I think everyone should know where its going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 I say let them die! Anyone notice that Honda, Toyota, BMW are not asking for money? They all have operations here too, but they are better ran companies and have cash to weather the storm. IMHO this is largely a union caused problem. UAW has demanded wages that are largely inflated for the skill level required. One of these days people will see unions are not good for economies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 I say let them die! Anyone notice that Honda, Toyota, BMW are not asking for money? They all have operations here too, but they are better ran companies and have cash to weather the storm. IMHO this is largely a union caused problem. UAW has demanded wages that are largely inflated for the skill level required. One of these days people will see unions are not good for economies. That's because they're not American companies! Why would the US government help a company whose profits go overseas. This is not an American only problem! It's effecting every auto maker, and they are all calling their respective governments asking for money. Both Germany and the European Union are studying the possibility of providing support for their automotive industries. Australia has provided more than $4 billion in funding for its vehicle manufacturers. Automotive manufacturers in China are already voicing their expectation of financial assistance from their government as well. “The Chinese government will undoubtedly support us,” says She Cairong, general manager of JAC Motors, a Chinese automobile manufacturer. This quote appeared in a New York Times article this morning, highlighting China’s consideration of a plan to provide assistance to its domestic automobile companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 That's because they're not American companies! Why would the US government help a company whose profits go overseas. This is not an American only problem! It's effecting every auto maker, and they are all calling their respective governments asking for money. Ah yes, the automaker giants JAC and CHERY in China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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