RIP US Constitution, 1787-2011

[copperhead]

Obama campaigned on the (broken) promise that he would personally slam the doors shut on Guantanamo Bay. Instead, he is planning on signing a law allowing anyone accused of terrorist links, for whatever reason the police feel like using, that will send US citizens there with no chance of a trial, for as long as they want.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/americans-face-guantanamo-detention-obama

 

Barack Obama has abandoned a commitment to veto a new security law that allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay.

 

Human rights groups accused the president of deserting his principles and disregarding the long-established principle that the military is not used in domestic policing. The legislation has also been strongly criticised by libertarians on the right angered at the stripping of individual rights for the duration of "a war that appears to have no end".

 

The law, contained in the defence authorisation bill that funds the US military, effectively extends the battlefield in the "war on terror" to the US and applies the established principle that combatants in any war are subject to military detention.

 

The legislation's supporters in Congress say it simply codifies existing practice, such as the indefinite detention of alleged terrorists at Guantánamo Bay. But the law's critics describe it as a draconian piece of legislation that extends the reach of detention without trial to include US citizens arrested in their own country.

 

"It's something so radical that it would have been considered crazy had it been pushed by the Bush administration," said Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch. "It establishes precisely the kind of system that the United States has consistently urged other countries not to adopt. At a time when the United States is urging Egypt, for example, to scrap its emergency law and military courts, this is not consistent."

 

There was heated debate in both houses of Congress on the legislation, requiring that suspects with links to Islamist foreign terrorist organisations arrested in the US, who were previously held by the FBI or other civilian law enforcement agencies, now be handed to the military and held indefinitely without trial.

 

The law applies to anyone "who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaida, the Taliban or associated forces".

 

Senator Lindsey Graham said the extraordinary measures were necessary because terrorism suspects were wholly different to regular criminals.

 

"We're facing an enemy, not a common criminal organisation, who will do anything and everything possible to destroy our way of life," he said. "When you join al-Qaida you haven't joined the mafia, you haven't joined a gang. You've joined people who are bent on our destruction and who are a military threat."

 

Other senators supported the new powers on the grounds that al-Qaida was fighting a war inside the US and that its followers should be treated as combatants, not civilians with constitutional protections.

 

But another conservative senator, Rand Paul, a strong libertarian, has said "detaining citizens without a court trial is not American" and that if the law passes "the terrorists have won".

 

"We're talking about American citizens who can be taken from the United States and sent to a camp at Guantánamo Bay and held indefinitely. It puts every single citizen American at risk," he said. "Really, what security does this indefinite detention of Americans give us? The first and flawed premise, both here and in the badly named Patriot Act, is that our pre-9/11 police powers were insufficient to stop terrorism. This is simply not borne out by the facts."

 

Paul was backed by Senator Dianne Feinstein.

 

"Congress is essentially authorising the indefinite imprisonment of American citizens, without charge," she said. "We are not a nation that locks up its citizens without charge."

 

Paul said there were already strong laws against support for terrorist groups. He noted that the definition of a terrorism suspect under existing legislation was so broad that millions of Americans could fall within it.

 

"There are laws on the books now that characterise who might be a terrorist: someone missing fingers on their hands is a suspect according to the department of justice. Someone who has guns, someone who has ammunition that is weatherproofed, someone who has more than seven days of food in their house can be considered a potential terrorist," Paul said. "If you are suspected because of these activities, do you want the government to have the ability to send you to Guantánamo Bay for indefinite detention?"

 

Under the legislation suspects can be held without trial "until the end of hostilities". They will have the right to appear once a year before a committee that will decide if the detention will continue.

 

The Senate is expected to give final approval to the bill before the end of the week. It will then go to the president, who previously said he would block the legislation not on moral grounds but because it would "cause confusion" in the intelligence community and encroached on his own powers.

 

But on Wednesday the White House said Obama had lifted the threat of a veto after changes to the law giving the president greater discretion to prevent individuals from being handed to the military.

 

Critics accused the president of caving in again to pressure from some Republicans on a counter-terrorism issue for fear of being painted in next year's election campaign as weak and of failing to defend America.

 

Human Rights Watch said that by signing the bill Obama would go down in history as the president who enshrined indefinite detention without trial in US law.

 

"The paradigm of the war on terror has advanced so far in people's minds that this has to appear more normal than it actually is," Malinowski said. "It wasn't asked for by any of the agencies on the frontlines in the fight against terrorism in the United States. It breaks with over 200 years of tradition in America against using the military in domestic affairs."

 

In fact, the heads of several security agencies, including the FBI, CIA, the director of national intelligence and the attorney general objected to the legislation. The Pentagon also said it was against the bill.

 

The FBI director, Robert Mueller, said he feared the law could compromise the bureau's ability to investigate terrorism because it would be more complicated to win co-operation from suspects held by the military.

 

"The possibility looms that we will lose opportunities to obtain co-operation from the persons in the past that we've been fairly successful in gaining," he told Congress.

 

Civil liberties groups say the FBI and federal courts have dealt with more than 400 alleged terrorism cases, including the successful prosecutions of Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber", Umar Farouk, the "underwear bomber", and Faisal Shahzad, the "Times Square bomber".

 

Elements of the law are so legally confusing, as well as being constitutionally questionable, that any detentions are almost certain to be challenged all the way to the supreme court.

 

Malinowski said "vague language" was deliberately included in the bill in order to get it passed. "The very lack of clarity is itself a problem. If people are confused about what it means, if people disagree about what it means, that in and of itself makes it bad law," he said.

 

Over 90 senators voted for this. They are all traitors to our nation and should be tried for treason. This was a bi-partisan endeavor, both sides are equally guilty. Rand Paul is the only person in the Senate who is standing up and fighting for OUR rights. He has very little support, and the support he does have is being quiet. Something has gone seriously wrong in our country and it needs fixed, now, before the rest of our rights are gone.

[Buckeye1647545503]

If Ron Paul is not elected next time we are all fucked

[copperhead]

http://www.infowars.com/indefinite-detention-bill-heads-to-obamas-desk/

[RyM3rC]

Something has gone seriously wrong in our country and it needs fixed, now, before the rest of our rights are gone.

 

You know something is very very wrong when Feinstein and Paul agree on something. I agree entirely, this shit is so sketchy it's full of fuck. One big step closer to civil war, thanks a bunch guys.

 

Yeah if Ron Paul isn't elected next term, I'll be doubling my survival and self-sustainment projects.

 

OMG wait, Obama said one thing, then got elected and did the opposite? NO WAY!

[AWW$HEEET]

between this and the patriot act, idk what to say.

[copperhead]

If Ron Paul is not elected next time we are all fucked

 

Even if he gets elected he is still going to be constantly fucked over by our terrible Legislative Branch. At least it will be a chance to show people who needs voted out.

 

We can already see where a reelection of Obama will take us seeing how he's already done in his first term what most would consider to be pretty radical. Its always the second term where the Pres can really let loose. Gingrich would do whatever someone pays him off to do because he's a slimeball, and I think Romney would do about the same, just make it far less obvious.

 

We need to change the public's thought, and until we can drive it away from OMG TURRURRISTS ARE BLOWIN UP OUR AIROPLANES then we will continue this downward spiral. At least the Occupy group is doing something, even if they are terrible at it. The Tea Party needs their energy and drive.

[AWW$HEEET]

i wonder if our founding fathers knew this was going to happen, and they left the second amendment in the constitution as a deadmans switch, knowing one day we would have to start anew.

[copperhead]

You know something is very very wrong when Feinstein and Paul agree on something.

 

NO SHIT

 

my mind is full of fuck

[copperhead]

i wonder if our founding fathers knew this was going to happen, and they left the second amendment in the constitution as a deadmans switch, knowing one day we would have to start anew.

 

That's the point

 

And we may as well start the clock for when that will need to be brought in

 

Just try not to talk about that too loudly though or else you will end up in Gitmo, never to be heard from again. See how that works? See what the point of this fucking law is, now?

[RyM3rC]

i wonder if our founding fathers knew this was going to happen, and they left the second amendment in the constitution as a deadmans switch, knowing one day we would have to start anew.

 

Yes, that's exactly what it is there for.

 

"Hmm, if we could pick up our muskets and start a new nation once, why couldn't we again?" Becauz jet-fighters, tanks, satellite-death-rays, etc. Why didn't they add that to the 2nd amendment? Way to set us up for massacre guys.

[wagner]

If Ron Paul is not elected next time we are all fucked

 

I hate to tell you but that won't happen

 

There are way to many dumb people in this country that eat the shit sammich that Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC feed them.

 

To give you an idea of how fucked we really are I asked about 8 people in my office today about this. Now these are "educated" people, some are democrats, some are GOP backers, none of them had any clue what this was about. Some of them thought it was "good" because it would help stop terrorists.

 

You will never see a civil war in this country, to many fat, lazy, stupid people who are only worried about TMZ, jersey shore, occupy this, and other trash to realize they are getting throat fucked by john homes and ass fucked by ron jermey.

[copperhead]

Also,

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/284937/indefinite-detention-and-american-citizens-sen-rand-paul

^That link may be dead

 

[RyM3rC]

You will never see a civil war in this country, to many fat, lazy, stupid people who are only worried about TMZ, jersey shore, occupy this, and other trash to realize they are getting throat fucked by john homes and ass fucked by ron jermey.

 

Quite possibly. Anything short of full-scale, (not necessarily US) .gov-backed war will be swept under the rug and dismissed as "domestic terrorism" I'd expect. BRB, reading history about how small factions overthrew empires.

[copperhead]

And after seeing this thread, CR has been labeled a terrorist organization and we will all be killed by precision drone strikes while racing in Mexico.

[ImUrOBGYN]

What gets me, is that more than half of the assholes who voted for this, could be taken in using the same law.

[copperhead]

I'd also like to point out that demonizing the Muslims in modern day America is exactly like post-WWI Germany demonizing the Jews. In both cases, it is the government pointing a finger at a religion with a very small minority in the area as being the cause of all of the people's problems, regardless of what they may be in order to shift public attention from their ransacking the citizens of their rights.

 

If the public were finally able to come to terms with living in a post-9/11 world, leave the Muslims to self destruct all on their own, quit looking to the gov for handouts and go out and CREATE (not find) jobs, and start paying attention to what's going on at home, and turn off the fucking jersey shore, shit would hit the fan real quick. We have been distracted with petty bullshit far too long.

[mrs.cos]

You will never see a civil war in this country, to many fat, lazy, stupid people who are only worried about TMZ, jersey shore, occupy this, and other trash to realize they are getting throat fucked by john homes and ass fucked by ron jermey.

 

This

[jeffro]

This was taken from the house about an hour ago during the SOPA hearing. Glad our lawmakers are paying attention to what their voting on. ffs.

http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/jeffro1265/1323969047365.jpg

[Alex L.]

McCarthy v.2.

[CRed05]

This sounds familiar...

 

http://overcomingapartheid.msu.edu/sidebar.php?id=12

 

Except there was a time limit, but it could be repeated indefinately.

[AWW$HEEET]

does the supreme court have any recourse on this?

[Forrest Gump 9]

Time to move?

[RyM3rC]

Time to move?

 

To where?

[AngryBMW]

I'd also like to point out that demonizing the Muslims in modern day America is exactly like post-WWI Germany demonizing the Jews. In both cases, it is the government pointing a finger at a religion with a very small minority in the area as being the cause of all of the people's problems, regardless of what they may be in order to shift public attention from their ransacking the citizens of their rights.

 

If the public were finally able to come to terms with living in a post-9/11 world, leave the Muslims to self destruct all on their own, quit looking to the gov for handouts and go out and CREATE (not find) jobs, and start paying attention to what's going on at home, and turn off the fucking jersey shore, shit would hit the fan real quick. We have been distracted with petty bullshit far too long.

 

You're a racist.

-Marc

[TTQ B4U]

I'm cleaning out the farm house and stock piling shit x2 beginning this weekend.