zeitgeist57 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ryan's not doing the best job, but DAMN if Biden isn't taking the "Railroad-everyone-to-make-an-impression" approach to winning??? Whoops! Biden's going after the moderator...should get interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Bill Marr just posted "Hello 911, there is an old man beating a child on my TV" LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I feel like the moderator and Biden are debating against Ryan. Well, I'm guessing the moderator is a woman... I'm not 100% sure, it's just my best guess. She's probably just mad they are trying to take away her right to an abortion that she will never get a chance to use anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Well, I'm guessing the moderator is a woman... I'm not 100% sure, it's just my best guess. She's probably just mad they are trying to take away her right to an abortion that she will never get a chance to use anyways. Her oppinions and views don't matter in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs.cos Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Strange that abortion has been the most civil part of this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 So nice of Biden to not thank Ryan in his closing argument. Fucking low class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ryan's closing speech is about as good as you could ask from any candidate. Asking for people's vote is a small but meaningful formality in such a hotly contested election. Biden is a tactless dick tonight. Too bad everyone knows that he can't control himself and gives him a waiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Good debate. IMO Biden won on the stage but was a smug and a bit condencending. Meh to that in a way since I see it as a fight either way. However to me Ryan gained points for being able to keep cool and respectful. He's definitely more polished. In the end I think Ryan's key points center around the facts that the country is in far worse shape after four years of Obama and Biden and things continue to steam roll towards even worse. There's no getting around that even if Biden proves to be a an aggressive, passionate guy who can hold his own on stage. I also like how Biden kept trying to pin Ryan down for "specifics" but ignores the fact that they have ideas and concepts / framework but aren't going to put the details out there as gospel because they are not like Obama and Biden who aren't interested in working with those on the other side of the table. :megusta: That's not how business is effectively done. I have ideas at work but to walk into a management meeting with 11 others in the room and say here are the specifics of my plan and here's how it works is just a set up for poor negotiations. You only win those that agree and you up front end up debating and negotiating and wasting time trying for a win with others and often you get no where, little buy-in and gain little in terms of respect as a leader who can bring ideas to life. Instead it's much better to go in with ideas and framework that align with your plan and take input from those around you so it then becomes truly a joint effort with buy-in from those that help create the specifics. There's not just 'one way' to accomplish a goal. Not only is that an easier sell but it's a true interactive support where ownership is all around and in the end everyone is involved. I think Biden's approach of smug arrogance and insistence is his way of trying to get things accomplished. :no: Obama / Biden tend to approach things as if here's our way, take it or fuck off. That approach is part of why they really do take heat for where the country is today. Case in point, when the Sesame Street people asked the Obama campaign to stop running an ad featuring Big Bird. Obama campaign adviser Robert Gibbs said that, for now anyway, the bird stays. Typical Obama. Politics is selling and Biden is an old school hot head guy and Obama is his front man polished hustler who does the talking. In the end though, their plan has lead to failure. Edited October 12, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 because 47% of Americans are brain dead dumb or support lowering the bar. There is plenty of ignorance on both sides of the bar. You know, the ones that treat Fox news like its Snopes. The same people that could speak to the birth certificate controversy but had no clue Obamas stance on taxes. The same people that thought Obama sounded too much like Osama so it would be unamerican to vote for him. That debate was horrible. I think anyone that watched it deserves a small tax break. Biden looked like he came for the sole purpose to make Ryan his bitch. That came across very rude and took away from some really good points. For the next week the headlines will be about Bidens interruptions and strong arm tactics instead of the meat and potatoes of the debate To me Ryan not answering the question about the tax plan was not a good look. I get that they dont want to share it too early, but isnt that just like the hope Obama promised? At this point people need proof. We cant trust that these plans are real or will even work. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 That debate was horrible. I think anyone that watched it deserves a small tax break. Caligula gave his people gold. I'll take that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 There is plenty of ignorance on both sides of the bar. . The ignorant folks on the opposite side of Obama are still waiting on results not more talk about Romney/Ryan. Doing what you say you're going to do and taking us to a better place is where it's at. Obama failed on so many things that have led us to a much deeper negative place as a nation that we really can't afford to wait four more years for him to try and figure it all out or try and deflect from his fail by talking about other people and their plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The ignorant folks on the opposite side of Obama are still waiting on results not more talk about Romney/Ryan. Doing what you say you're going to do and taking us to a better place is where it's at. Obama failed on so many things that have led us to a much deeper negative place as a nation that we really can't afford to wait four more years for him to try and figure it all out or try and deflect from his fail by talking about other people and their plans. Is being ignorant, no matter what side you are on, right??? Sorry but I cant argue which ignorance is more ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 To me Ryan not answering the question about the tax plan was not a good look. I get that they dont want to share it too early, but isnt that just like the hope Obama promised? At this point people need proof. We cant trust that these plans are real or will even work. Thoughts? I covered the above already. In the end, Obama/Biden want to try and pin down the Romney campaign on details. Sort of like forcing you to show your cards. No thanks folks, show us yours instead. Did Obama even submit a budget? Have any of his details, promises or hope and change bullshit even mattered over the past 4 years? I don't see any results...... Instead, what Ryan talked about tonight is that like any plan, it has to have solid framework. They have that and they have thought through the details, but they aren't so smug like Biden or arrogantly polished like Obama to think their way is the only way. Biden completely ignored Ryan's comment about the details are what stem from a bipartisan relationship. Does Obama/Biden really think Romney is going to walk into congress with a plan full of his own details and get it passed without questions/negotiations? So then what good does it do to expose all his details and plans now know good and well nothing is solid and concrete? Why run a campaign on such ridged details of a "plan" that you know are best formulated once you're in office and working with those around you. So long as the framework is there the plan is good. It's not simply about trusting that it's a solid plan....how about trusting congress and dems to work with Romney once he's in office. The framework is solid, third party studies concur, so In the end to show his cards in detail would do them no favors so it would be a poor move to put anything out there. It's all going to get sliced and diced and negotiated by congress anyway. Key is Obama sucks at trying to get buy-in from his opponents whereas Romney is skilled at doing so and has in the past. I'm still waiting on Obama and Biden to show me some positive numbers from their work, plans and details. Again, tell the dems to stop worrying about others and show us some facts and proof they have a clue. I guess they have since everyone is so very much better off today than when he was elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Is being ignorant, no matter what side you are on, right??? Sorry but I cant argue which ignorance is more ignorant. how are the republicans or folks like me ignorant? I understand exactly what Obama is trying to do. he's adding more hope to the hope and change of his moving us forward. all I see is us falling off a cliff and my kids and their kids paying debts he's driven up for the past four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ok, so they brought up abortion to which I thought to myself "why the fuck are they bringing this up, its not an issue worth discussing when we have major economical and military issues to address." That's when I realized I was also running late for work so I turned it off. Did I miss anything? Anyway, every time Biden spoke I kept thinking about this: Did Obama even submit a budget? Have any of his details, promises or hope and change bullshit even mattered over the past 4 years? I don't see any results...... He did, once upon a time. There were 0 votes for it and 99 against. edit - Ryan was a bit of a let down. He didn't really impress me, but at least I wasn't angry at him like I was with Biden. I was really hoping Biden would be (unintentionally) funny, but instead he was an asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Obama doesnt give facts in 2008 = Untrustworthy hopes and dreams. People are unwise to follow him. Romney doesnt give facts in 2012 = He's holding his cards and its perfectly acceptable. You should follow him. how are the republicans or folks like me ignorant? I understand exactly what Obama is trying to do. he's adding more hope to the hope and change of his moving us forward. all I see is us falling off a cliff and my kids and their kids paying debts he's driven up for the past four years. If you were one of the people that decided the way his name is spelled is a reason not to vote for him then I would classify you as ignorant. If you voted for the best interest of yourself and/or the country then you are not included in that list. You spoke to ignorance being the 47%. Just by turning on Fox and CNN I know thats false... actually add in any news network you want at this point. Its so hard to find unbiased information these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Obama doesnt give facts in 2008 = Untrustworthy hopes and dreams. People are unwise to follow him. Romney doesnt give facts in 2012 = He's holding his cards and its perfectly acceptable. You should follow him. If you were one of the people that decided the way his name is spelled is a reason not to vote for him then I would classify you as ignorant. If you voted for the best interest of yourself and/or the country then you are not included in that list. Barry Soetoro also didn't like the way his name was spelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Barry Soetoro also didn't like the way his name was spelled. I wondered if that was true or not. If he writes a book in 20 years saying he was born in a foreign country and messed up certain things on purpose... Barry Soetoro would go down in history as the biggest troll ever :lolguy: I'm done with my little pot stirring to keep this thread going for the night. Vote Ron Paul! *drops mic* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Obama doesnt give facts in 2008 = Untrustworthy hopes and dreams. People are unwise to follow him. Romney doesnt give facts in 2012 = He's holding his cards and its perfectly acceptable. You should follow him. Obama ran on hope and change, and dumb, desperate voters put him in office. Romney has credibility and history in both the private sector and public sector. Is he perfect or the second coming...no. Personally, I don't need to read through the details and bullshit that I know will likely get bashed around by congress. I'm much more interested in supporting a candidate that has shown they can do what they say and has the skills to negotiate and foster relationships and make millions for his clients and himself vs Obama who has done a wonderfull job putting Americans on food stamps and moving a country forward to a lower overall credit rating. :dumb: If you were one of the people that decided the way his name is spelled is a reason not to vote for him then I would classify you as ignorant. If you voted for the best interest of yourself and/or the country then you are not included in that list. You spoke to ignorance being the 47%. Just by turning on Fox and CNN I know thats false... actually add in any news network you want at this point. Its so hard to find unbiased information these days. I could care less about where he was born, what color he is or how his name is spelled. Obama had zero credibility in 2008, has far less if any now and his plans have yet to produce results. If he was an employee of mine, he would have been written up and fired long ago. The job is not getting done and if anything things are a ton worse now. It's time to go back to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Obama ran on hope and change, and dumb, desperate voters put him in office. Romney has credibility and history in both the private sector and public sector. Is he perfect or the second coming...no. Personally, I don't need to read through the details and bullshit that I know will likely get bashed around by congress. I'm much more interested in supporting a candidate that has shown they can do what they say and has the skills to negotiate and foster relationships and make millions for his clients and himself vs Obama who has done a wonderfull job putting Americans on food stamps and moving a country forward to a lower overall credit rating. :dumb: I could care less about where he was born, what color he is or how his name is spelled. Obama had zero credibility in 2008, has far less if any now and his plans have yet to produce results. If he was an employee of mine, he would have been written up and fired long ago. The job is not getting done and if anything things are a ton worse now. It's time to go back to Chicago. Exactly, the ignorant comment wasnt aimed at you, it was for Copperhead.. that guys a dick! This is what worries me. People want to get rid of Obama so bad they are getting hooked on some of the same lines of the hope and change campaign. Romneys resume may look better, but I have nothing to hold on to. As a numbers person this campaign leaves me wanting more. I dont think he should give all his facts, but humor us number heads. My numbers dont show it being possible to fix the errors in two terms. Maybe thats why he wont show his card. He wont be able to see it through to the end and the democrats will use it against him....lol answered my own question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 ! This is what worries me. People want to get rid of Obama so bad they are getting hooked on some of the same lines of the hope and change campaign. That was his campaign so why not? Should have read "Hope for Change" At least then it would have been accurate. Although we did get change; just things changed for the worst. Romneys resume may look better, but I have nothing to hold on to. As a numbers person this campaign leaves me wanting more. I dont think he should give all his facts, but humor us number heads. My numbers dont show it being possible to fix the errors in two terms. Maybe thats why he wont show his card. I'm a numbers guy too and I'm also a realist. This mess started back with Clinton and built up through Obama so no, it's not going to get fixed in 8yrs. Not likely 10-12 either. However, it can get lots better and begin to have a positive impact quickly. Again, see above as to why details won't likely be shown. No benefit and it only humors the Dems. Fuck the dems. Make them run on their own merits if they can find any. Honestly, if Americans put Obama in office again, I will officially lose my faith in our collective intelligence as a nation. If that happens I also predict that in the next 1-2 years we will go through another recession that will top 2008-2009. He wont be able to see it through to the end and the democrats will use it against him....lol answered my own question I disagree. I think he will make a difference. No one is looking for him to solve this mess. Even Romney early on said it is more than a two term issue but that he's confident he can get things going in the right direction. That's all we need. Once things are righted again, this country will come around. Dems can try all day long, but if he's gets things going in the right direction, even if it's not completely fixed, trying to be negative on that will cost them the 2016 election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 That was his campaign so why not? Should have read "Hope for Change" At least then it would have been accurate. Although we did get change; just things changed for the worst. I'm a numbers guy too and I'm also a realist. This mess started back with Clinton and built up through Obama so no, it's not going to get fixed in 8yrs. Not likely 10-12 either. However, it can get lots better and begin to have a positive impact quickly. Again, see above as to why details won't likely be shown. No benefit and it only humors the Dems. Fuck the dems. Make them run on their own merits if they can find any. Honestly, if Americans put Obama in office again, I will officially lose my faith in our collective intelligence as a nation. I disagree. I think he will make a difference. No one is looking for him to solve this mess. Even Romney early on said it is more than a two term issue but that he's confident he can get things going in the right direction. That's all we need. Once things are righted again, this country will come around. Dems can try all day long, but if he's gets things going in the right direction, even if it's not completely fixed, trying to be negative on that will cost them the 2016 election. I dont think the checks and balances will put him in a position to get it moving as fast as he will want. If he succeeds too fast it makes the dems look very bad and they have a pretty good chance to hold the majority in the house and senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I dont think the checks and balances will put him in a position to get it moving as fast as he will want. If he succeeds too fast it makes the dems look very bad and they have a pretty good chance to hold the majority in the house and senate. prolly right but I think he will not only be able to win a good number of them over, but they too will want to side with a winner in order to look good. he knows that too and will likely play that card. right now they all look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 i thought ryan pulled it out tonight. Everytime biden laughed, or smirked just showed me how unprofessional he was. I want someone that doesnt laugh at issues they have helped create. I want them to take shit seriously. I dont know who im voting for yet, but i can tell you, Biden did not help his bid with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copperhead Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Exactly, the ignorant comment wasnt aimed at you, it was for Copperhead.. that guys a dick! Sorry, I wasn't paying attention This is what worries me. People want to get rid of Obama so bad they are getting hooked on some of the same lines of the hope and change campaign. Romneys resume may look better, but I have nothing to hold on to. As a numbers person this campaign leaves me wanting more. I dont think he should give all his facts, but humor us number heads. My numbers dont show it being possible to fix the errors in two terms. Maybe thats why he wont show his card. He wont be able to see it through to the end and the democrats will use it against him....lol answered my own question I don't ever recall a politician going as far as the guy who will be henceforth referred to as Barry in their promise making. Generally, politicians give a broad example of what they want to do, and leave the nuts and bolts of the plan to their advisers to come up with the best plan of action with the most input possible. Barry thinks so highly of himself that he just threw out there what HE wanted to do with everything, which is why now people are screaming about broken promises. The things he promised simply weren't feasible and he refused to acknowledge that until after he was elected and found out the hard way that some things couldn't be done. Like closing Gitmo, remember that one? Some of the promises he couldn't escape so he went full steam ahead, like pulling out of Iraq, yet he still won't have us out of Afghanistan for another 2 years - a full 6 years after his election. The exception to this was Obamacare - he wanted that so bad (so he could shit all over Hillary) that he was willing to let the lobbyists throw it together for him to present to Congress, and had Pelosi tell everyone they wouldn't know what was in it until they passed it. By the way, lobbyists write legislation and pass it off to Senators and Congressmen all the time to push into law, this is common practice, just not usually on such a large scale. So yes, it is nice to have the numbers and hard facts in front of you but the truth is that those take time and manpower to make right, which Team Mittens doesn't have yet. The other thing I see about Romney is probably both his biggest strength and biggest weakness, and that is exactly what he did at Bain Capital. He was in the position of making the tough choices to keep the companies from sinking, and sometimes when the ship is sinking you have to sacrifice some sailors to plug the holes. It wouldn't surprise me that if we want to fix this country, we may end up having to deal with a much sharper downturn for a short time, but then once things are straightened out and on the right path we will see a strong recovery. If this doesn't happen soon we may never recover. Barry will be in a position to do this if he gets reelected, since he won't have to worry about a reelection, but I'm not sure he cares enough to actually go through with it since he really seems to enjoy living the rockstar life with his good friend Jay-Z. Mittens would be stuck in the position of either waiting until reelection before going through the painful correction, which would mean another 4 years of 8% unemployment, or come in swinging and probably ruin his chances of reelection. The biggest upside to a Romney win is that it would make the next election a great time to push the Libertarian party. I try to vote for them on local stuff, but generally I look at the federal elections as being too important. Since I'm not a big fan of Romney in the first place (and I'm willing to bet a lot of people that will vote for him feel the same way) then the next election I probably wouldn't care all too much if he loses. That makes it a great time to support a third party and hopefully get them enough votes to get federal election funding for the next try. We really do need more choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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