10/16 debate

[Green Bastard]

I just started watching 5 mins ago and it already delivers. Seems as if the claws are coming out.

[Benner]

Don't really feel like hearing two grown men reduce themselves to children bickering back and forth.

[wagner]

Watching the History channel show about the men who built america. I suggest you do the same and it will give perspective as to who really runs this election and country.

[crummer]

Obama is much more engaged this time around, which is good. However his command of the economic issues is certainly lacking. It seems as though he is fixated on expenses when that is only part of the conversation. What is missing from Obama's logic is that he is overlooking top line growth in the overall equation.

 

A great question for Romney would be. "What do you assume GDP would grow at as you cut taxes and reduce the deficit?" If the answer is above 3-4%, then something is flawed.

[Green Bastard]

Watching the History channel show about the men who built america. I suggest you do the same and it will give perspective as to who really runs this election and country.

 

I don't have cable at home, I'm not home enough to watch tv all that much. So this is all that is on.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Obama already spoke of reintroducing an "assault weapons" ban. AK47's are evil! Blah blah blah!

[Veritas]

Unless you're a soldier or work in law enforcement or security, why on earth would you NEED an ak47? The zombie apocalypse won't end faster if you're using a fully automatic weapon or not, and out side of "heh that was cool" with using something like an AK47, why would you need one?

 

Now I'm seriously only talking a gun of that grade (or weapon historian's and that'd require some special shit who could have them btw) being restricted. Previous law enforcement and military personnel could retain the ability to buy and have them though.

[mrs.cos]

Unless you're a soldier or work in law enforcement or security, why on earth would you NEED an ak47? The zombie apocalypse won't end faster if you're using a fully automatic weapon or not, and out side of "heh that was cool" with using something like an AK47, why would you need one?

 

Now I'm seriously only talking a gun of that grade (or weapon historian's and that'd require some special shit who could have them btw) being restricted. Previous law enforcement and military personnel could retain the ability to buy and have them though.

 

Because i have a right to bear arms.

[Veritas]

There's an entire world of other weapons that aren't those.

 

Pick.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Unless you're a soldier or work in law enforcement or security, why on earth would you NEED an ak47? The zombie apocalypse won't end faster if you're using a fully automatic weapon or not, and out side of "heh that was cool" with using something like an AK47, why would you need one?

 

Now I'm seriously only talking a gun of that grade (or weapon historian's and that'd require some special shit who could have them btw) being restricted. Previous law enforcement and military personnel could retain the ability to buy and have them though.

 

Same aspect as saying, any car/vehicle over 400 horsepower should be illegal. Unless you're Michael Schumacher or Mario Andretti, you can't have any vehicle over 400 horsepower.

 

The 2nd Amendment states, it is our RIGHT to Bear Arms. It's not a luxury, it is a given Right as an American. Banning firearms infringes upon that Right. As an owner of a few, gas operated, magazine fed, semi automatic rifles, this does infringe on my Right.

[Drewhop]

Same aspect as saying, any car/vehicle over 400 horsepower should be illegal. Unless you're Michael Schumacher or Mario Andretti, you can't have any vehicle over 400 horsepower.

 

The 2nd Amendment states, it is our RIGHT to Bear Arms. It's not a luxury, it is a given Right as an American. Banning firearms infringes upon that Right. As an owner of a few, gas operated, magazine fed, semi automatic rifles, this does infringe on my Right.

 

+1

[mrs.cos]

Same aspect as saying, any car/vehicle over 400 horsepower should be illegal. Unless you're Michael Schumacher or Mario Andretti, you can't have any vehicle over 400 horsepower.

 

The 2nd Amendment states, it is our RIGHT to Bear Arms. It's not a luxury, it is a given Right as an American. Banning firearms infringes upon that Right. As an owner of a few, gas operated, magazine fed, semi automatic rifles, this does infringe on my Right.

 

Not only is it a Right but it was SO important that they made sure it was the SECOND THING LISTED on the Bill of RIGHTS.

[Dammit Charlie]

Same aspect as saying, any car/vehicle over 400 horsepower should be illegal. Unless you're Michael Schumacher or Mario Andretti, you can't have any vehicle over 400 horsepower.

 

The 2nd Amendment states, it is our RIGHT to Bear Arms. It's not a luxury, it is a given Right as an American. Banning firearms infringes upon that Right. As an owner of a few, gas operated, magazine fed, semi automatic rifles, this does infringe on my Right.

 

:thumbup:

 

I would love to see them try banning them now. I'm curious how many AR's and other "ban" weapons are out there.

 

If for some reason Obama gets back in, I'm buying another AR and an AK immediately.

[TTQ B4U]

There's an entire world of other weapons that aren't those. Pick.

 

I missed that restriction in the 2nd amendment.

[Veritas]

If you REALLY want to go back to the original document with everything, that in and of itself is an entirely different conversation. That amendment also didn't even know they existed, just like rockets. Do you think rockets are something everyone should have? Also there wasn't anything written in our bill of rights that stated one should drive any vehicle they want. Trying to argue logistics with me is futile.

 

You can argue all day back and forth about that, but there's really no reason why a normal, regular citizen should have an automatic rifle or a rifle that's normally automatic in their possession.

[Mr. Jones]

You can argue all day back and forth about that, but there's really no reason why a normal, regular citizen should have an automatic rifle or a rifle that's normally automatic in their possession.

 

How about, BECAUSE I WANT ONE?

 

You may have forgotten which country you are in....

 

No Citizen needs more than 79HP to reach 65mph.

No Citizen needs more than 2000 calories of basic nourishment to survive.

 

If allowed, perhaps the government can dictate how much toilet paper we are allowed to use.

How long our showers can be.

How much gas we can use.

 

For the love of christ, if I want to buy a handgun and shoot it to my heart's content at a range, why shouldn't I?

[Furloaf]

Regular citizens need them to keep the government in check.

[Scotty2Hotty]

Regular citizens need them to keep the government in check.

 

Ding! We have a winner.

[Veritas]

I think we're having two different conversations. I'm talking ak47's, not guns period. I'd be foolish to say we shouldn't have guns.

[Mr. Jones]

I think we're having two different conversations. I'm talking ak47's, not guns period. I'd be foolish to say we shouldn't have guns.

 

AK47's are a type of gun. Who cares how fast it fires or how many rounds it holds.

As a legal us citizen who isn't a felon, why shouldn't I be allowed to have one?

 

It's a slippery slope.....

[macpyro2]

I think we're having two different conversations. I'm talking ak47's, not guns period. I'd be foolish to say we shouldn't have guns.

 

Your right we should ban AK47's because....there scary. What about a semi auto AR, MP5, 9MM carbine, PS90...where would it end?

[TTQ B4U]

Obama's last four years of pain are just his way of instituting greater gun control. He's accomplishing this by keeping people out of work, taxing them to death, letting them spend more on the basics in life and insuring all this will continue by racking up debt so that even our kids won't be able to afford guns.

[TTQ B4U]

Unless you're a soldier or work in law enforcement or security, why on earth would you NEED an ak47?

 

Now I'm seriously only talking a gun of that grade.

there's really no reason why a normal, regular citizen should have an automatic rifle or a rifle that's normally automatic in their possession.

 

I'm talking ak47's, not guns period.

 

So are we talking ak47's, guns of that grade, any automatic rifle or what?

 

In the end, I have a right to keep and bear arms, and that right shall not be infringed. /period. I don't think it's even open to question or debate the "type" of arms I can bear.

 

It bothers me that a CCW is the states way of making me pay to exercise my right. I can open carry in Ohio and lawmakers are good with that, but I put it in my belt and they have a problem? Really? So if I'm out to kill as you walk down the street because I'm a crazy fuck, does seeing my gun in my belt really help save your life? Bang, you're dead either way.

 

In terms of my firearms, I upgrade and own what I do for the same reason the police and military do....because I too have the right not to be put in harms way by being underpowered when defending myself against criminals who could carry more firepower than you might think.

 

Here in Dublin, you're likely to meet a 12ga in my home at night. On our farm 10mins north of Zainyville, you'll likely take a slew of AR round as you break in. I don't need to take the precautions out there I do here as a round can travel miles and I have no worries out there as we have no neighbors in a direct line of sight.

[copperhead]

If you REALLY want to go back to the original document with everything, that in and of itself is an entirely different conversation. That amendment also didn't even know they existed, just like rockets. Do you think rockets are something everyone should have? Also there wasn't anything written in our bill of rights that stated one should drive any vehicle they want. Trying to argue logistics with me is futile.

 

You can argue all day back and forth about that, but there's really no reason why a normal, regular citizen should have an automatic rifle or a rifle that's normally automatic in their possession.

 

O say can you see by the dawn's early light,

What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,

Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,

O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,

Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;

O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave,

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

 

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,

Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,

What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,

As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?

Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,

In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:

'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore

That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,

A home and a country, should leave us no more?

Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave

From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:

And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand

Between their loved home and the war's desolation.

Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land

Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!

Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,

And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."

And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

 

yup, we didn't have rockets back then at all

 

btw

 

in order to legally have an automatic firearm you have to pay a tax to go through a background check that takes at least 6 months to get approved. The cheapest auto is also like $6,000 and they are more commonly $15,000 and up so your average street thug won't bother. Real life isn't like the movies where everyone finds full auto Uzi's laying around carelessly, most crime in this country is done with cheap throwaway guns.

[V8 Beast]

I get where Veritas is coming from. At what point in a regular persons life do you think you will be in a situation where you will be carrying your automatic rifle and need to take down a group of criminals all at once. For having fun with a hobby they are awesome. For use as defense it puts others around you in danger unless you know what you are doing. Spraying a praying works on Call of Duty, in real life you might take out a neighbor... or 3.

 

On the other side, even if the guns were not around at the time.. classifying them as firearms makes them automatically part of that group. And just as you will probably never need them to take down a group.. it also means you will never need them to take down a group. Its a mute point because if you check the stats automatic rifles tend to hurt the operator more than other people (outside of combat situations).

 

This is where we can help out families all over the US.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811552.pdf

Forget guns, lets find a better way to prevent idiots from getting drivers licenses. Thats a multi ton weapon that we allow people to drive with very minimal testing.