TTQ B4U Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I would say he's very likely referencing Iran using their military basis in Syria to access the Mediterranean Sea to get to Israel and their trading ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I am still an undecided voter trying to as unbiased as possible. I really think the 2 party system is hurting us but i dont know if i have to play the cards that are dealt and help choose what is right for america or make a stand. Ive voted 3rd party before and planned on voting 3rd party again, but is there someone out of the 2 that needs to be in or out? My big fears are that obama says he is going to raise taxes for the rich and increase spending. I dont think i have ever heard someone say that. But if Romney is in fact only helping the rich that doesnt do me any good either. I really need to find an unbiased fact checker site that goes over all the plans and policies and if they are possible. Where is news/facts i can trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Where is news/facts i can trust? research it on your own. opinions are all just that and news is all biased. list your top 3-5 areas of interest and look at past facts and future plans from both and determine for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Research their voting records on the topics you deem important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Beast Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I will warn you before you search for political information. 90% of the "facts" you find will have other "facts" to disprove them. Just apply common sense and stir for best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I will warn you before you search for political information. 90% of the "facts" you find will have other "facts" to disprove them. Just apply common sense and stir for best results. thats exactly what im worried about. if everyone is so up on their research and info then shouldnt they have go to sites? I never get a straight answer to where people go for their "research". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 if everyone is so up on their research and info then shouldnt they have go to sites? I never get a straight answer to where people go for their "research". I'll take a crack at this. You can always start at sites like politifact.com or factcheck.org. They're supposed to be non-partisan fact-checkers, but people still complain that they're biased. Regardless, as long as they're citing references, you can always go to the source material and verify what they're saying. I think, though, that people generally make up their opinions by listening to what lots of politicians say, and filtering that information through a thorough understanding of the way our government works. I'll explain this with an example -- every political candidate ever promises to save money by cutting fraud and waste. Romney promises to cut $60 billion this way. Obama has a whole page detailing ways he has or plans to cut waste. In general, Romney has been hammering this point harder. Is that because Obama doesn't really want to cut waste? Of course not, that's ridiculous. It's because Obama's been at this for 4 years. If he says he's going to cut waste, the obvious question is, "Why haven't you done it already?" Promising to cut waste is always a strong move for the challenger, because it implies that the incumbent is incompetent, and because we have no idea what the challenger may or may not be able to do once they get in office. How much weight should we give to this promise to cut waste? Easy answer -- look at a timeline of the last hundred years and point to periods of economic prosperity that are the direct or indirect result of cutting waste. Can't be done, for a few reasons. One, there's really not that much waste to cut. Yes, the government is inefficient, but so are all large industries. Automakers spend millions every year on dead-end products, marketing bungles, and countless employees who sit around and play WoW all day. We like to think that the private sector is streamlined and efficient, but really, being human is pretty wasteful. Two, waste is really hard to cut. In my job, it's typical for someone to identify two programs that duplicate effort and decide to cut one of them. I'd say there's a 50% chance they'll succeed based on numbers alone, and they'll probably spend a few million in the process. If it were easy, the waste wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Three, the president doesn't really have that much power. Consider our 2012 expected budget, which is just shy of $3.8 trillion dollars. Of that, about 60% falls under the category of entitlement spending. That spending is dictated by law, and the president has nothing to do with it. He can make recommendations, like Bush did with social security, or Obama did with the PPACA, but ultimately it's up to congress to accept or reject those suggestions. The remaining 40% is considered discretionary spending. Congress passes appropriations, but allows the executive branch some leeway in determining how it's spent. Half of discretionary spending is the military, about $700 billion, and we all know how hard it is to cut military spending. That leaves $700 billion or so for all the other programs that the government runs. If 10% of that is waste, you have a number pretty close to what Romney says he'll cut. Now consider that our deficit is $1000 billion dollars. Even if Romney is successful at cutting waste, which history says he won't be, he's only solved 7% of our budget problem. If Romney goes on a scorched earth rampage of cutting government programs by 50% across the board (without touching the DoD like he says), he's only solved 35% of our budget problem. Likewise, Obama's plan to raise taxes on the rich doesn't amount to a hill of beans either. Raising taxes on the rich is politically safe, though, just like promising to cut waste, so we hear a lot of that. Savvy voters will tune that crap out, because it's meaningless. For a presidential election, you have to look at what a president can actually do, which includes things like temporary military actions; meeting with heads of state; appointing supreme court justices; and perhaps most importantly, setting the overall mood of political discourse in the country. Because the real power is in the legislature, but nobody pays much attention to that. (not proofreading this, so deal with any errors ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I am still an undecided voter trying to as unbiased as possible. I really think the 2 party system is hurting us but i dont know if i have to play the cards that are dealt and help choose what is right for america or make a stand. Ive voted 3rd party before and planned on voting 3rd party again, but is there someone out of the 2 that needs to be in or out? My big fears are that obama says he is going to raise taxes for the rich and increase spending. I dont think i have ever heard someone say that. But if Romney is in fact only helping the rich that doesnt do me any good either. I really need to find an unbiased fact checker site that goes over all the plans and policies and if they are possible. Where is news/facts i can trust? Don't vote independent. It's a waste. It's this simple, are you happy with what Obama has done while in office. If so then vote for him. If not, vote for Romney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankis Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 It's this simple, are you happy with what Obama has done while in office. If so then vote for him. If not, vote for Romney. That's some real leaky airtight logic you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl1647545488 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I am still an undecided voter trying to as unbiased as possible. I really think the 2 party system is hurting us but i dont know if i have to play the cards that are dealt and help choose what is right for america or make a stand. Ive voted 3rd party before and planned on voting 3rd party again, but is there someone out of the 2 that needs to be in or out? My big fears are that obama says he is going to raise taxes for the rich and increase spending. I dont think i have ever heard someone say that. But if Romney is in fact only helping the rich that doesnt do me any good either. I really need to find an unbiased fact checker site that goes over all the plans and policies and if they are possible. Where is news/facts i can trust? http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Don't vote independent. It's a waste. It's this simple, are you happy with what Obama has done while in office. If so then vote for him. If not, vote for Romney. This mentality is why we can't get anything different in office. It doesn't have to be black or white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 This mentality is why we can't get anything different in office. It doesn't have to be black or white. not true. voting for a 3rd party in the Presidential election come last minute like this has never been even close to coming to a reality. It's a waste. If you want to affect a change from a two party system it's not going to happen due to write in's last minute. heck, even with Obama sucking ass as bad as he has for so many years in terms of helpful accomplishments and contributions to our country and it's people he's still carrying far more of a % than even remotely intelligent. Fucking amazing. That said, no way a write in will garner more than single digits. as noted earlier, vote for one of these two and if you don't like either, stay home and save your gas money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 You really need to read up on him a bit, where he grew up and how he achieved what he has earned. Just saying. research it on your own. opinions are all just that and news is all biased. list your top 3-5 areas of interest and look at past facts and future plans from both and determine for yourself. I'm somewhat confused now. I came to my conclusion of my vote as of now based upon the latter statement you made. And I really don't need to share them, but I will. College aid, Healthcare, Track record (i.e. how many times they have flip flopped) and the ability to relate to me....whether they went through it or not. Now let me evaluate how I concluded Obama. 1.Simply put, since I have a job making above minimum wage living at home I won't get shit except a "low interest student loan." Sadly I can get that already with my credit score being better than most people twice my age. 2. Obamacare has helped both me and my family tremendously. My mother has MS, and her healthcare premiums actually DROPPED due to some policy's enacted. Although she is too far right wing to care about losing a few thousand on health care, I'm sure she enjoyed the savings. 3. YouTube any words relating to "Mitt Romey" and "flip flop, changed opinions, etc." and do the same to Obama, I'm sure Romney has changed ten-fold over the past few months than the amount Obama has his entire life. 4. Like what I said previously "Borrow money from your parents if you have to.." along with many others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 This mentality is why we can't get anything different in office. It doesn't have to be black or white. It's not a mentality. I hate the two party system, but I'm not dumb enough to think it can be changed at this point in the game. Any vote other than Republican or Democrat in THIS presidential election is a waste of time. You don't really believe otherwise do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 not true. voting for a 3rd party in the Presidential election come last minute like this has never been even close to coming to a reality. It's a waste. If you want to affect a change from a two party system it's not going to happen due to write in's last minute. heck, even with Obama sucking ass as bad as he has for so many years in terms of helpful accomplishments and contributions to our country and it's people he's still carrying far more of a % than even remotely intelligent. Fucking amazing. That said, no way a write in will garner more than single digits. as noted earlier, vote for one of these two and if you don't like either, stay home and save your gas money. The movement away from the two party system will not happen in a single election, almost all of us voting independent/3rd party understand this. You have to build support, and it will never happen if you keep getting bullied into voting R or D. The old tired excuses of "wasting votes" and "but this election is the most important so blah blah blah" are holding less and less water as the voters are beginning to smell the two handfuls of bullshit being held in front of them. These parties are both owned by corporations, PACs and other special interests, and they have proven their allegiances time and again. You believe in Mitt, so be it, vote for him. I believe in his past political record more than his future promises. The only wasted vote is one you don't believe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2highpsi Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Just for shits and giggles: How many of the people here bitching about the choices we have voted in the primaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) I'm somewhat confused now. I came to my conclusion of my vote as of now based upon the latter statement you made. And I really don't need to share them, but I will. College aid, Healthcare, Track record (i.e. how many times they have flip flopped) and the ability to relate to me....whether they went through it or not. Now let me evaluate how I concluded Obama. 1.Simply put, since I have a job making above minimum wage living at home I won't get shit except a "low interest student loan." Sadly I can get that already with my credit score being better than most people twice my age. 2. Obamacare has helped both me and my family tremendously. My mother has MS, and her healthcare premiums actually DROPPED due to some policy's enacted. Although she is too far right wing to care about losing a few thousand on health care, I'm sure she enjoyed the savings. 3. YouTube any words relating to "Mitt Romey" and "flip flop, changed opinions, etc." and do the same to Obama, I'm sure Romney has changed ten-fold over the past few months than the amount Obama has his entire life. 4. Like what I said previously "Borrow money from your parents if you have to.." along with many others... in terms of education we need major reform no doubt. I have no doubt under either you're going to have access to loans and grants. the difference is under Obama, the plan isn't solvent and he's borrowing money to continue funding his expanding grants. it's also contributing to the higher cost of education. I mean, why would the schools lower costs or worry about competition when there's a president that is just continually insuring money is there for them to take? They won't. Romney pledged to keep grants available but sure, there will be ceilings and changes but those are required to help reign in costs and not add to our debt. So what does that mean for you...go get your Obama funded education as you'll need it in years to come to pay back the money that isn't free. Don't forget to buy a GM car after graduation either. You still own 27% of GM and Obama just told GM he's not interested in selling our stock yet either even though they are telling him it's hurting their business. Doesn't surprise me as he doesn't want to take billions in losses right before the election any more than he wanted to admit the truth about the terrorist attack in Libya. In terms of Obamacare, I won't even begin to go into how negatively impactful this is going to be on the nation as a whole. Will it benefit some, sure, and there are a few good points in it. Overall though, I stand by the fact that the vast majority of CR will be on Gov't run insurance plans being served by far less qualified and skilled doctors in far fewer numbers. But hey, we need to lower the bar so everyone will have coverage. None of which is free, so yes, you're education and earnings in the future will be used to pay for that too. Perhaps someday we'll pay the same tax rates as our neighbors up north. Thanks for sharing your decision. The beauty of America is you have that oportunity and your vote counts the same as Obama's and Romney's on Nov 6th. Edited October 24, 2012 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sol740 Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's difficult to not be approved for higher education loans. That's the next bubble, and it's only getting bigger. The cost of education is skyrocketing because of government loans, that conveniently can't be discharged under bankruptcy. Schools have no incentive to lower prices to more affordable rates, because why charge less when the money isn't even coming from your customer. Of course when people can't find jobs, or those jobs don't provide the incomes necessary to pay off the loans, and simultaneously live a decent life, you are now a slave to your government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's difficult to not be approved for higher education loans. That's the next bubble, and it's only getting bigger. The cost of education is skyrocketing because of government loans, that conveniently can't be discharged under bankruptcy. Schools have no incentive to lower prices to more affordable rates, because why charge less when the money isn't even coming from your customer. Of course when people can't find jobs, or those jobs don't provide the incomes necessary to pay off the loans, and simultaneously live a decent life, you are now a slave to your government. yep....I was glad to see the third party folks understand this. this is also reason 1,234 why we are being so conservative in life here because the wife and I don't expect it will be easy for our kids to have those loans so readily available to them in 10 years. we've resolved ourselves that our properties and rentals are their future education dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 For a presidential election, you have to look at what a president can actually do, which includes things like temporary military actions; meeting with heads of state; appointing supreme court justices; and perhaps most importantly, setting the overall mood of political discourse in the country. Because the real power is in the legislature, but nobody pays much attention to that. The rest of yoru post was amazing, however I felt this needed pointed out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 We could have Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker in the White House and we will STILL have the same issues. The upside is that debates and speeches would be something I could stomach, and I have always wanted to see a sleeveless tux at a state dinner, brother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 For a presidential election, you have to look at what a president can actually do, ...... most importantly, setting the overall mood of political discourse in the country. Because the real power is in the legislature, but nobody pays much attention to that. Agree. A true leader is charged with providing visions and have the ability to influence others to do more than they would do on their own. Leaders influence thoughts, emotions and actions of those working for them and with them. They do this through credibility, trust and respect. Trust and respect are earned through behaviors and I believe Romney has done that far more than Obama. Like his personal or religious background or not, Romney has done a lot of good things for people, acknowledging their contributions and treating them with respect and has barely ever mentioned or leveraged that part of his life to win this campaign. Nice to see a man exhibit some humility for a change. Obama has hid the GM Debacle and hit the nation is taking in the stock we all still own and tried desperately to cover up the recent Libya attack. He also continues to over promise and under deliver. The last four years are solid failure. His track record sucks and he has very little in the way of business experience. He's not good at bipartisan negotiations and this country is more divided now than ever before. It's his job to fix that and he hasn't/can't. He's also so hell bent on talking more about Romney than himself in this entire election that it's very apparent that he hates taking responsibility or facing reality. I'm sorry but IMO Romney while not perfect stands a far better shot at getting legislature to agree through negotiations as that's what he did his entire career. Compare that with Obama who likes things his way or else...and then blames the others for not agreeing with his way if things don't work out the way he wants. Pussy behavior. It's time to man-up Obama and step aside as you have failed at getting the job done. Period. If he worked at ANY company of any substance and presented the results he has as POTUS he'd have been written up and fired long ago. No need to discuss Romney just look inside at what you have't been able to do. Time to put aside your arrogance that has no merit in terms of concrete results. Obama is a legend in his own mind and being the first black president is about all he will contribute to the history books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewhop Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Cult of Brand. This nation is basically fucked because 90% of the population is so loyal to there political party that they cant step outside the box and see what really needs to be done. It is sad that I really want a zombie apocalypse just to have someone press the reset button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Cult of Brand. This nation is basically fucked because 90% of the population is so loyal to there political party that they cant step outside the box and see what really needs to be done. It is sad that I really want a zombie apocalypse just to have someone press the reset button. There needs to be a complete cleansing of Washington leaders. Term limits are a start and while we have due process I think a complete public stand up to Washington is needed. Such a decision should't be the decision of those same leaders. This should be a popular vote by the people. Eviction from Washington is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Romney's Magic tax plan bothers me because he wants to cut taxes by a huge amount and "Close Loop Holes" He's never really detailed what those loop holes are. But he claims it will work our better. Romney's also very much out of touch with the struggles of the common man. I really don't feel he would make decisions that are in our best intrest. Romney's claims about making jobs are a joke as in one breath he says It's not the goverments resposbility to create jobs while next claiming he's going to creat millions of jobs..... Really? Romney's name should be FlapJack because he flips back and forth so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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