Come debate gun control with me

[TTQ B4U]

No way. Tim came in here to go Obama this and that....shocker.

 

Really? You don't know me yet you can read my mind and understand my intentions for posting here? Do you do palm readings too?

 

Don't even know you and man are you annoying. Go to a track or something.

people who complain and play victim annoy me too. feel free to engage on the subject with some thought and I'll be happy to crank up the annoying factor a few notches as you get schooled on how to debate.

[SHIEF]

Really? You don't know me yet you can read my mind and understand my intentions for posting here? Do you do palm readings too?

 

people who complain and play victim annoy me too. feel free to engage on the subject with some thought and I'll be happy to crank up the annoying factor a few notches as you get schooled on how to debate.

 

Being that every post you make usually has some stupid Obama shit in it (no I'm not a supporter). So yeah, here's a palm reading; I bet you will post more Obama shit. Bill is in the mail.

 

As for your debate proposal. No thanks, I never read the books you type on this site when you feel the need to get all "in depth" with the internet. It'll turn into you doing that and I don't have the Tim's blabbering attention span that it will take for me to keep up.

 

Roll Tide

[Wonderboy]

Every generation needs a new revolution

— Thomas Jefferson

 

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm saying that arguing with people in the internets is a waste of time. It doesn't solve anything. I've never heard of a written revolution, it requires a bit more of a hands on approach which would be a better use of people's time in my opinion.

[Ramsey]

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm saying that arguing with people in the internets is a waste of time. It doesn't solve anything. I've never heard of a written revolution, it requires a bit more of a hands on approach which would be a better use of people's time in my opinion.

 

welcome to a discussion board. Where things will be discussed. :dumb:

[TTQ B4U]

Being that every post you make usually has some stupid Obama shit in it (no I'm not a supporter). So yeah, here's a palm reading; I bet you will post more Obama shit. Bill is in the mail.

 

Obama and his thoughts on gun control = likelihood that more Obama shit and comments about his dumb ass ways will be posted world wide on news and message boards was something my 9 year old said would happen. True story. Thus you're at least as smart as he is. Well done.

 

As for your debate proposal. No thanks, I never read the books you type on this site when you feel the need to get all "in depth" with the internet.

So if you don't read my "books" and you don't know me then it's fair to say you're simply annoyed about long thorough well thought out in depth posts. Sounds to me like you have ADD or similar. Note to self moving foward, keep posts directed at you brief with simple words. PM Tilly for help.

 

It'll turn into you doing that and I don't have the Tim's blabbering attention span that it will take for me to keep up.

Yep, you have ADD. My advice, surf less, put the smart phone down stop inhaling race gas and interact with humans more in more intellectual settings. Off to my day job now....

[RedRocket1647545505]

At this point I'm really not sure what the total 'solution' is, but I think it's going to come in the form of stricter requirements for who can purchase a firearm.

 

 

Why can people not see that an AWB only affects law abiding citizens? The kid stole them, plain and simple. How would this have stopped him?

 

America is lazy and is looking for a quick and simple solution, like we always seem to do. The easy out appears to be an AWB because then the citizens will feel like they truly did something about the situation and they get that instant warm and fuzzy gratification that comes along with it. In the end, nothing will change, and those who have already settled on committing mass murder aren't going to give a damn about breaking a measly AWB law as well.

[wagner]

Why can people not see that an AWB only affects law abiding citizens? The kid stole them, plain and simple. How would this have stopped him?

 

America is lazy and is looking for a quick and simple solution, like we always seem to do. The easy out appears to be an AWB because then the citizens will feel like they truly did something about the situation and they get that instant warm and fuzzy gratification that comes along with it. In the end, nothing will change, and those who have already settled on committing mass murder aren't going to give a damn about breaking a measly AWB law as well.

 

You will never be able to drive this point home, there are to many links and charts to be found on the interwebz that say otherwise.

 

Besides, the firearms industry is only worth a few billion dollars, we can cripple it and there will be no layoffs or other issues at all....

[zeitgeist57]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTc6MzGIWoY0q8rQO6Y2p-4LusKTLRVzWYbVpSFFdvfQFAYzYTb

[RedRocket1647545505]

Everyone should read this. It's pretty good.

 

I have spent many a sleepless night recently thinking about the mass shooting in Connecticut, and the other more alarmingly frequent shootings of 2012.

As an individual who owns guns, supports the 2nd amendment and loves this nation I feel gun owners need to bring a better argument to the debate than; “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”

 

While this may be true, there is also the caveat that the gun does make the psychopaths pulling the trigger all the more efficient. And therein lies the problem.

 

For many of us guns represent quality time. To me they represent sunny summer days with my dad and a .22 rifle shooting bottles along the levee. They meant fall days with my Labrador and my friends going to a country field after school to hunt dove with a shotgun.

 

They mean going to a 3gun event in the springtime with my custom made AR15 and talking gear with other enthusiasts and enjoying the thrill of competition. They mean the opportunity to get together with college friends for a hunting trip, a time to rehash the college days.

 

They represent the cold winter mornings of my youth, spent with my grandfather before he was crippled by Alzheimers, sitting in a duck blind and talking about what growing up during the great depression and WW2 was like.

 

They also mean the opportunity to pass all of those events and life lessons on to my son. That is why I love guns. Because they provide a link from generation to generation that can teach responsibility, patience, safety, community, and self-reliance.

 

This is what we as gun owners need to articulate to the non-gun owning community. I jump at the chance every time a non-gun owner wants to go shooting. Letting them enjoy the fun of plinking with a .22 is the best way to convert a non-believer and teach the ignorant that guns are tools with many uses.

 

Currently I hear talking heads, politicians, and the media giving multiple reasons for Lanza’s actions. Some use the growing disparity between rich and poor and the resulting social unrest. The economy is not a zero sum game, people do rise up from poverty to greatness, and upward mobility is a thing.

 

If capitalism and the American dream were a lie, like liberals claim they are, than we wouldn't have one of the richest and most powerful nations on earth with one of the largest and most affluent middle classes. Class warfare is dangerous, divisive, and can lead to violence as well.

 

The US has one of the highest standards of living. Here poverty can mean free public education, a TV, a cell phone, a car, and being well fed to the point of obesity.

While poverty may explain violence in the ghettos and poorer neighborhoods, allot of that violence can also be attributed to the dissolution of minority families due to welfare.

 

Yes welfare, the thing created by FDR to help out the poor has been responsible for getting rid of the father figure and leaving a nation of kids who would grow up with no other role model other than the thug or the gangsta rapper. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...050061598.html)

 

But, the monster in Conn didn't shoot up a school because he was poor. His father is a stockbroker and his mother received over 250k in alimony. He lived in a mansion in a posh suburb. No poverty did not drive Lanza to commit mass murder; it is something far more ingrained.

 

Many others have also blamed the pointless war on drugs. Again I agree it is a waste of manpower and resources that often put younger offenders behind bars where they get a felony rap and learn to become real criminals. But while the war on drugs may fuel mass shootings in Mexico, and does lead to more drug related gun violence in the United States, Lanza didn't shoot up the school over the meth distribution territory of the Sinaloa cartel.

 

I believe that the increasing number of mass shootings in our society can be linked to 2 things.

 

Number one is the lack of adequate mental health treatment. Gone are the days of asylums when the mentally ill were put away to not bother normal society.

In some cases this was due to the asylum being a "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" affair that was corrupt and negligent, but mainly it was due to budget restraints.

 

Nowadays the mentally ill are given prescription drugs that can control their behavior if they are diagnosed properly and are taken properly. This sadly does not often happen. My wife works as a nurse in a neurological ICU and they often get patients brought in by the police who suffer from mental illness.

 

The hospital cannot hold them and they are released after 72 hours once the meds have kicked in. Because of this lapse in society’s guardianship, many homeless people and repeat criminals, are the mentally ill who weren't treated or off of their meds.

 

Alarmingly, if you look at many children today, you see a societal overreliance on pharmaceuticals to “cure” a number of behaviors, a trend that seems to be reaping disastrous consequences. (http://www.cchrint.org/tag/columbine/)

 

As big a factor as number one is, I feel the second cause is even more critical.

It is the current generations need for celebrity and attention combined with the cultural adage that everyone is a winner.

 

This one is harder to quantify, but mass shootings were relatively rare before Columbine.

 

(http://www.k12academics.com/school-s...-united-states)

 

With the exception of the clock tower incident in Austin, many public shootings were more isolated and directed at an individual, not at the school body at large.

 

What changed? Society and the way kids should be raised.

The baby boomer generation began to believe that competition in the schoolroom, and on the playground, was damaging to a child’s psyche, and that any form of punishment was unhelpful.

Instead children were to be praised. Any type of physical altercation was bad, and contact sports were seen as dangerous. Everyone was given a trophy, taught they were a winner, and said they were special and that everything they did was great.

 

The baby boomers experienced the largesse of the US like no other generation and therefore failed to teach their children the value of hard work and sacrifice.

To add to it the culture of excess and instant gratification meant children now expected everything to be easy.

 

Society as a whole also changed in what it wanted as a past time. Video games and TV shows went from campy and fun (Super Mario and the Brady Bunch) to realistic and violent, even sadistic (GTA and Sons of Anarchy).

What is worse parents let young children feed on this. In a country that celebrated violence we began to push the envelope to extremes.

Now reality shows guests and fake celebrities are being made famous and well known even without any real talent or a worthy goal. (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-y-cover_x.htm)

 

It no longer matters how you got famous. Whether it be getting caught multiple times for doing drugs, beating women, making a sex tape, being a vapid shallow rich socialite, or just being the drunkest foulest mouthed buffoon. The goal in life became the pursuit of fame for the sake of being famous.

 

Suddenly all of these children, who want nothing more to be special and well known (liked), are being released on the world and they are learning the very hard way what older generations were taught: THE WORLD DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN HOW SPECIAL OR UNIQUE YOU ARE IF YOU DON'T HAVE TALENT OR SKILL.

 

The economy is bad, the job market sucks, and trying to act like a buffoon to be popular doesn’t hack it unless you are on MTV.

The real world is unfair and there is no reward for just showing up.

 

So a small minority cracks.

 

Instead of slinking away these few write an Internet or Facebook manifesto and emulate the Columbine killers, because then in death they are now infamous, and their name will be remembered.

 

Yes, I am saying our shallow fame obsessed, 24/7 media cycle addicted, society has made mass murder appealing to those who wish to go commit suicide in a way that makes their own loneliness and failure a national tragedy.

 

Therein lies the problem; as a society we aren't ready to deal with this on a larger scale. In the wake of this tragedy we all now want the easy solution.

That is why there will be gun control.

Because even though AR15s are only used in a small number of gun crimes, less than 2%, they are scary and misunderstood by the general populace at large.

 

( http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...427r/?page=all)

 

Gun owners can scream till we are blue in the face that gun deaths in the US don't even make a top ten list of premature deaths.

We can talk about cars and accidents due to texting or drinking.

In reality, we would save allot more teenage lives by making it impossible to text while moving faster than 25 mph, and the technology exists

 

. But those are individual tragedies.

Hell, the ladder you used to put up Christmas lights is more likely to kill you than an assault rifle.

 

However for the politicians and the general public banning the gun and ignoring the shooter is the easier way to get that warm fuzzy feeling that you did something.

 

Politicians hate to make hard decisions (look at our national debt), and people don't want to stop watching Honey Boo Boo long enough tell junior that he can't have COD Black Ops 2 because it is too violent for a 12 year old.

We can’t even be bothered to miss a football game long enough to listen to the President. Instead we will blame the inanimate object and say things like; "wouldn't you give up all your guns to save just one child's life? What if it was your own child?"

 

Well I have a four-year-old son, and I own an AR15, so this hit close to home. But I will answer that asinine question truthfully: yes I would give up all of my guns if it would guarantee that my son would never be touched by violence or tragedy.

However no politician, not even Diane Feinstein, can guarantee that by giving up my second amendment rights they will make sure tragedy never strikes. Police can’t even guarantee your safety according to the Supreme Court.

 

That is the scary thing about freedom! You don't have any safety guarantees, only your own resourcefulness and society’s moral contract.

 

For centuries mankind created monarchies because being told what to do is easy. If a government is generous and not too oppressive many people will seek the relative peace and security of oppression, if it is explained as being for their own good.

 

Let us take a look at some of our own freedoms.

Freedom of speech is scary because it allows idiots like the KKK, black panthers, and the Westboro Baptist church to spread hate and lies. Therefore many in power have denied people the simple freedomof speaking their mind because words can lead to violence, death, and revolution. Even now our society toys with the idea of protected speech vs. unprotected speech.

 

Freedom of religion is scary because it allows cults and radicals to preach and practice openly. It also means atrocities have been carried out in the name of God. Many times throughout history this fact meant government intervention into religion, and vice versa, since it is much easier to control people when you control their faith.

 

In the economic sector, free markets are scary because they don't protect you from the failure of investments and poor decisions. For this reason many embraced communism and socialism, at the expense of their economic destiny, for the promise of free bread.

 

Finally freedom to keep and bear arms is scary because it means you have to trust your neighbor to be a responsible gun owner just like yourself. It is even scarier for the government because it means the people retain the means to check the government if they feel it is beginning to get too oppressive.

 

That is what makes the US different from Europe and the rest of the world. We don't have a long history of monarchs, oligarchs, dictators and kings ruling over serfs and peasants.

We have a history of explorers, pioneers, cowboys, risk takers, visionaries, inventors, and capitalists who would rather leave behind civilization and strike out wherever the possibility of freedom and adventure lay.

 

We also have a history of gun ownership, and that differentiates us for better or worse.

 

We are now at a crossroads. Do we give up liberty for the promise of safety, or do we continue on the VERY scary and dangerous path of personal liberty?

 

I believe Ben Franklin had the answer when he said, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

[2pointslow]

i heard through the grape vine that 10/22 and ar-15 .22 variants are on the list as well.

[Green Bastard]

.....America is lazy and is looking for a quick and simple solution....they get that instant warm and fuzzy gratification that comes along with it....

 

Unfortunately thats how American society is these days, everyone is lazy and wants instant gratification, nobody looks to the long term these days anymore.

 

Now for my feelings for the topic, and this is just pure opinion...

 

The second amendment (how I interpret it) is the people (of the US) have the right to bear arms and a well regulated militia... so that being said, we arm ourselves to protect us from threats foreign and domestic. Now say we are regulated to only being able to own handguns, shotguns, and (for the sake of arguement) bolt action rifles (no semi-auto)... then they declare martial law on everyone in the US, and gov't decides they want to keep it that way, nobody has rights and has to do what the gov't says. Now the military enforcing martial law has fully automatic assult rifles while we have only whats mentioned above. If a revolution were to break out in this scenario, it wouldn't be a fair fight. It would be hard to keep up with the assult rifles with the limited arms.

 

This scenario is not likely to happen, but thats not to say that it can't happen (or thousand's of other scenarios), and this is why I don't believe in taking away guns or limiting what you can have. Again, this is just my opinion, I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I wouldn't say I am hard core pro gun or anything, I only own a .22 rifle that has not been shot in 7+ years, but I would say, I don't like the idea of someone taking away my rights when I have done nothing wrong.

[TTQ B4U]

POST #109 should close out this thread. Well stated by the original author. Thanks for sharing.

[V8 Beast]

Lets just outlaw bullets so we can keep our guns

[SHIEF]

Sorry tim. Did you say something?

[Wonderboy]

welcome to a discussion board. Where things will be discussed. :dumb:

 

Yeah yeah, I get that but, when it comes to REAL issues Im tired of people being all talk and no action. If people would quit being pussies and sacrifice a little bit of their comforts to make a change, this country would be a better place. The problem is, one man cant do it by himself and everybody else is too scared to stand with him. /drunk rant

[nurkvinny]

POST #109 should close out this thread. Well stated by the original author. Thanks for sharing.

 

Yep. I've read several similar write-ups this week. I can only hope that this is the type of argument or facts that are considered under Biden's watchful eye (but I doubt it).

[1fast5gp]

I bet if we ban stupid people from having Kids. I can guarantee a major reduction in violent crimes and murders in about 10-20 years. Kids will learn more in school, our schools would be safer as wells. There will a reduction in entitlement spending. How come no one is pushing that agenda? lol

[RedRocket1647545505]

Because then the Libs would have no one to vote for them.

 

:gabe:

[Scotty2Hotty]

Because then the Libs would have no one to vote for them.

 

:gabe:

 

If anyone did their homework, they'd push these turds out of office for good. All this talk of the AWB still needs to be passed. I don't see it going through the House by any means.

[87GT]

Go.

 

:masturboy:

 

SO I TOLD THAT DRESS CODE ENFORCER LADY THE CONSTITUTION GIVES ME THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS

[bahd-ler]

Yes, government included. No guns, no exploding weapons, none of that, however you define it. All that is left is knives, spears, slings, catapults - basically whatever we had before gunpower was invented.

 

The thing is if this were the case I feel only the "physically strong or highly trained" in combat would survive. Primitive weapons would take away from the old saying "God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal."

[Geeesammy]

Make up "Gun Banks" and use them like 24/7 banks. Require homes with mentally disabled, felons, folks on anti-depressent's living in them to store weapons here. Allow them to have a shotgun or 9mm in their home for self defense. Put a few vets to work to work these and secure them. Small rent fee each month per gun, and BAZINGA. Whoever check the weapon out is held equally accountable for damages done with the weapon and watch the crime rate drop extravagantly.

[macpyro2]

Make up "Gun Banks" and use them like 24/7 banks. Require homes with mentally disabled, felons, folks on anti-depressent's living in them to store weapons here. Allow them to have a shotgun or 9mm in their home for self defense. Put a few vets to work to work these and secure them. Small rent fee each month per gun, and BAZINGA. Whoever check the weapon out is held equally accountable for damages done with the weapon and watch the crime rate drop extravagantly.

 

Wow... so your telling me if I live with a felon(which I have) I would not only have to take my guns somewhere to be stored but also PAY a small fee. Da Fuck, 9mm or shotgun are fine though?

[Geeesammy]

Wow... so your telling me if I live with a felon(which I have) I would not only have to take my guns somewhere to be stored but also PAY a small fee. Da Fuck, 9mm or shotgun are fine though?

 

It's just an idea I'm throwing out there. I think it should be dealt with I'm a case by case situation. Just my opinion...