Should The GOP be using Obamacare like this?

[greg1647545532]

Sorry, I didn't intend to condescend to anyone. Carry on.

[wagner]

Sorry, I didn't intend to condescend to anyone. Carry on.

 

It's ok, if I had a nickel for every time somebody called me stupid I would be able to afford a Cougar. My ideas, logic, and viewpoints tend to be different that the liberal/conservative mindset because I think there are more than just 2 ways to do something.

 

You want to fix the "healthcare crisis" in this country, you need to start at the root issue, not the end of the line.

 

Why do we have this "crisis"? What can we do to fix that issue?

 

It falls in the same vein as the whole gun control cluster fuck. Banning guns will help, but won't fix the issue. You have to fix the issues that CAUSE guns to be used as a violent tool.

 

I just don't think the .gov needs to be sticking the cock in everything like a drunk dude at a hooker house.

[gillbot]

It's ok, if I had a nickel for every time somebody called me stupid I would be able to afford a Cougar. My ideas, logic, and viewpoints tend to be different that the liberal/conservative mindset because I think there are more than just 2 ways to do something.

 

You want to fix the "healthcare crisis" in this country, you need to start at the root issue, not the end of the line.

 

Why do we have this "crisis"? What can we do to fix that issue?

 

It falls in the same vein as the whole gun control cluster fuck. Banning guns will help, but won't fix the issue. You have to fix the issues that CAUSE guns to be used as a violent tool.

 

I just don't think the .gov needs to be sticking the cock in everything like a drunk dude at a hooker house.

 

THIS

[coltboostin]

For the record I am one of those that is currently not getting paid. Signed my furlough papers this morning.

 

Actually, you are.

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-votes-to-approve-back-pay-for-furloughed-workers/2013/10/05/936c5b4c-2ddc-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html

 

Whats the point of keeping the Fed employees out of work if we are going to pay them anyways? Our tax dollars at work LOL

[coltboostin]

I believe public school teachers are underpaid. And are way worse off than any doctor. Not a shedding any tears for doctors.

 

And the funny thing is, I think most government workers (especially govt. contract workers) are OVERPAID. Most government contact workers I work with on a monthly basis are not very talented people, yet make 6 figured+ in most instances.

[copperhead]

Riddle me this? Why do we pay the most for healthcare but have one of the lowest life expectancy;s in the world?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/16-ways-europeans-are-just-better-at-life_n_3950351.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

 

The US is the only country in the world where the people of low economic status are primarily obese. Thanks McDonald's.

[buelliganx1]

Actually, you are.

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-votes-to-approve-back-pay-for-furloughed-workers/2013/10/05/936c5b4c-2ddc-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html

 

Whats the point of keeping the Fed employees out of work if we are going to pay them anyways? Our tax dollars at work LOL

 

Well I have to say as a government worker that this doesnt surprise me at all. They didnt seem concerned about my pay last fiscal year when they sequestered us for 48hrs of pay why should now be any different for now I'm going to assume that this applies for those workers that still had to come in and do their jobs even though they were not getting paid and not people that were sitting at home like me. Oh and for the record I dont make 6 figures like you talk about in your next post.

[Brandon]

How is it different? No offense, but I'm not sure I can explain it to you any better than I just did. Maybe I'll try an analogy.

 

Right now you can get phone insurance for like $10 a month. You can sign up at any time, but if your phone is already broken they're obviously not going to cover that phone. They only cover unbroken phones.

 

But congress passes a law that says they can't reject people who try to sign up with broken phones.

 

So do you sign up for the insurance when you first get your phone? Or do you wait for it to be broken and then go sign up? You can spend $120 year and maybe never use the insurance, or you can spend $10 once, cancel right away, and get a new $200 phone.

 

Nobody's done any studies on whether that would actually happen because the idea is broken on its face. Insurance companies would never go for it. Right now they deny people with pre-existing conditions because they have to in order to remain competitive in the marketplace. They do it because those people are very expensive to insure, so if they're forced to accept them the insurance companies will need more money. You can get them more money by raising rates (i.e., your insurance goes up), with subsidies (i.e, your taxes go up) or by increasing their customer base (the individual mandate).

 

 

 

But the ACA is decidedly NOT the Euro style of life. That would be universal coverage. I already see the ACA as being a messy compromise -- it's a pretty centrist idea, really. Fix health care but continue to leverage the benefits of the free market by allowing private companies to compete. It's not unlike the school voucher concept that conservatives are so fond of.

 

 

 

Are you OK with your health insurance money go dead weight? Because every time an ER treats someone without health insurance, where do you think that money comes from?

 

You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend that the current system is good. You're already paying for the dead weight.

 

I "was" paying less for it prior the ACA?????

[thorne]

Option 3: Not let the .gov get mixed up in private enterprise in a way that adds more debt, layers of crap, and a system that will fall under it's own weight.

 

Here, let me give you the first few steps to solve this problem.

 

1. Not allow insurance companies to deny people due to pre-existing conditions (really the only "law or mandate" we need.

 

2. Make it easier for insurance companies to sell across state lines (more options in the private market, less cost).

 

3. Put the screws to those who fraud the system (bet that saves a billion bucks)

 

1. ACA does this.

 

2. Whats wrong with the ACA's exchange?

 

3. I think more importantly is to create checks and balances to actually catch people abusing said system.

 

 

The goverment exists to get things done that individuals can't achieve, Things like healthcare reform.

 

I do find it humerous that 2 of the things you said are already being done by this evil Communist from Kenya who is socliazing all of Murkia.

[kirks5oh]

the plan does not hold americans accountable for their laziness, and general poor habits, which leads to poor health. again, we are the unhealthiest society BY FAR. the only society, as mentioned, where the poorest, least intelligent people are the FATTEST. how does that happen?? how does someone who cannot afford shelter, clothes, etc, become an absolute 400lb slob??

[wagner]

1. ACA does this.

 

2. Whats wrong with the ACA's exchange?

 

3. I think more importantly is to create checks and balances to actually catch people abusing said system.

 

 

The goverment exists to get things done that individuals can't achieve, Things like healthcare reform.

 

I do find it humerous that 2 of the things you said are already being done by this evil Communist from Kenya who is socliazing all of Murkia.

 

What's wrong with the ACA exchange? It does not work for many people, still. Your loved communist from Kenya and his friends had 3 years, 3 YEARS to get this right and could not do it.

 

The ACA does force companies to take anybody, and it should have stopped there. You are so drunk on the Obama-aid you fail to see what is happening.

 

The ACA is a patch that helps the minority and will hurt the majority.

 

Its not that I don't want this to fail, its the fact its going to do more damage than good. Keep drinking the liberal-aid and get drunk off its ideas, because the hangover it could give us all is going to suck.

 

Let me leave you with a quote from a friend who works for an insurance company that has a lot of skin in these exchanges. He is not sold on any of this even with the fact his company is going to make money....

 

"Even if you do not feel the premium pinch initially, you will as the subsidies start going away. If you think its good, I will leave you with this thought, 25-30 million newly insured and a dwindling pool of primary care physicians on a limited network. How long do you think the wait will be to get an appointment to see a decent doctor?"

[wagner]

the plan does not hold americans accountable for their laziness, and general poor habits, which leads to poor health. again, we are the unhealthiest society BY FAR. the only society, as mentioned, where the poorest, least intelligent people are the FATTEST. how does that happen?? how does someone who cannot afford shelter, clothes, etc, become an absolute 400lb slob??

 

But they get healthcare that YOU are paying for

 

Again, liberals are ignoring the problem to come up with a solution, just like gun control and everything else....

[wagner]

And just to be clear, I don't think its a bad thing to help others, or that people don't have a need for healthcare.

 

 

What I do think is bad is how the ACA works. Its a bloated mess that reaches to far and does not do what it needs to do in a responsible way. We have some very smart people in this country (mind you, none of them were in on making this trash bill) that could come up with something better.

[thorne]

What I don't get is, If the republicans are SOOOO sure that ACA is going to fuck everything up. Why not let it fail and you've pretty much secured future votes.

 

The real truth is, The majority of people who will be utilizing the exchange are getting health insurance cheaper than they could in the past. That's what the GOP Is soooo scared of. They know that if people like the ACA they won't be able to reverse it later.

 

 

To many people in this thread seem to be overlooking that we are required to carry car insurance, The reason Car insurance works is because your pooling your risk. On paper this reduces the total cost of car insurance for the masses. Why is the same not a good idea for health coverage?

 

You ether send everyone away with no money / insurance

or

You have a single payer system where all the risk is pooled together.

 

Option A is down right wrong, How can we be the best country in the world and not take care of our own.

 

Option B the idiot right wing ding bats hate it because well they don't even know why they hate it. I've heard people being interviewed who talk about things that will fix the system and there quote things that exist in the ACA.

 

 

Meh

[thorne]

But they get healthcare that YOU are paying for

 

Again, liberals are ignoring the problem to come up with a solution, just like gun control and everything else....

actually they are not ignoring the problem, They attempted to address it by going with a single payer system. Sadly this provision was left out of the final ACA.

[wagner]

At this point just let it go and pass. If I were a betting man I would put my chips on the "this is not going to end well" slot.

 

Talk to those who are already feeling the effects of this. Less hours at work, forced to buy healthcare. What do you think the long term effects will be on the economy? Is that worth what this bill does?

 

In my eyes, no, you are about to make a bad problem worse, and create more issues along the way. Hence why the .gov needs to keep out of this unless they have something better.

 

Besides, its going to get passed. Years of shit fiscal policy and taking money from Uncle China and Aunt Japan are about to bite us. They are going to ask for their money back and I don't have the money,do you?

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/big-creditors-china-japan-press-u-resolve-debt-121113714--business.html

[Geeesammy]

Sorry, I didn't intend to condescend to anyone. Carry on.

 

I think I've seen your condescend in most of your "points" you try to make on this board. If I remember correctly you got pretty fussy when someone commented on your Honda and minivan....

 

 

Anyways I haven't read a page of this thread , aside from some of Kirk's replies which were pretty cool to see the "inside" of what a medical professional has to say, but my thoughts are still how they have been for however long I knew about the gubment and politics. They should stay out of our lives. We shouldn't be paying anywhere near what we are for taxes, how do we do that we ask?

 

Simply put as soon as the gubment spends money that's a tax on us. Think of the millions fraudulently claiming welfare, food stamps, disability, etc. Everyone wants a piece of a gubment tit to suckle on.

 

Example A:

30's chick I work with. Single mother with 2 kids, making $13.75 an hour. Babby daddy got put into prison for robbing a store when he was meth'd out. She makes a live-able income (before gubment money). She gets food stamps, along with multiple other forms of government assistance. She drives a 2009 Lexus LS 460. This is a $400 a month car payment along with her 2004 Impala with 22's on it, and a 2001 Impala with a "Custom" paint job. She vacations for a 4 day weekend once a month and never has a shortage of money to spend.

 

Can one of you dem's or whoever EXPLAIN to me how exactly she needs help? I'm 22, work my fucking ass off, and still stretch to pay for school and rent every month, along with 2 "nice" (if you can call them that) things I have, and have not once even thought of asking for help beyond the FAFSA. This is where it get's really interesting, she purposely sandbags her work "availability" to ensure she doesn't work too much to get her assistance taken away!! Is this real fucking life? This woman literally cannot add 7+5 and get the right answer the first time around, let alone spell most words correctly, and she does this...Imagine how many more people do this all the time. I hear customers come in all the time talking about how excited they are for "ObamaCare" to roll out so they can get all their medical issues fixed for free. I honestly laugh my ass off and have to do my best not to try and make reality blow up in their face (since you know, most people have a job to pay for things, not Uncle Sam).

 

This is just one employee in one of the smallest stores, and many more, shall I say "like her" are in our company.

 

Flame as you please.

 

Edit: Some of you should watch these, this man had the answers (or at least more than most had). People thought he was a crackpot old fool, and now looking back everyone see's what he was saying. For the record I'm mainly stirring the pot.

 

 

[buelliganx1]

I would have a whole lot more confidence in the ACA if and only if they could show me where some truly intelligent people had worked together to come up with it. If this was concocted by politicians I am absolutely 100% sure that it will line their pocketbooks more than it will help people regardless of whether the "right wing ding bats" or the left wing morons designed it. Let me put it this way if I need a car tuned I'm going to take it to IPS not Home Depot much the same way that if I'm going to stand behind a health care plan it's going to be designed by people that know what their doing and not politicians.

[greg1647545532]

Can one of you dem's or whoever EXPLAIN to me how exactly she needs help?

 

She doesn't need help, she's broken beyond repair. The assistance she gets is for those children, both in concept and in execution. The reason you and I aren't worthless drains on society is that we had parents who took the time to raise us properly. We can't force her to raise her kids right, and it'd be a gross government overreach to take her kids away without some sign of child abuse, so this token amount of money we give her for food to feed her kids is our way of trying to make sure that the kids are fed and the mom has time to raise them for at least part of the day instead letting them eat cockroaches and get raised by gangsters. After all, these kids could either be paying your social security in 40 years, or they can be robbing your house. You have a stake in their future because that's how societies work.

 

Nobody likes giving money to people like that, and there's never going to be a perfectly efficient way to make sure that recipients of government assistance are using it 100% wisely. For example, you're telling me that my tax dollars are going towards your college education. That's great! I'm happy to do it because it will make you a more productive member of society. How would you feel if I put conditions on that money saying that while you were receiving FAFSA benefits you could only eat ramen and drive a 1998 Ford Taurus?

 

It's a tricky thing, see. I myself get huge tax breaks because I have kids and a mortgage, but nobody gets furious when I blow money foolishly (which I do a lot, ask me about my chumpcar team sometime). If I didn't get those tax breaks I'd have to cut back on my foolish spending.

 

The only reason I ever speak up is to correct misconceptions and try and put things in perspective. Conservatives of late have this all-consuming hatred of anything government, and that's just not what life's about. I don't think the ACA is the right answer, but I also don't think it's going to destroy America. I can't understand why conservatives are expending so much effort in hating this thing. I understand that it's frustrating knowing your tax dollars are going help poor people pay for insurance, but wouldn't you rest better realizing that you're a 22-year-old college student, which means you probably pay nothing or next to nothing in federal income taxes? Especially when you consider that you're getting financial aid? Doesn't that perspective make you feel better?

[wagner]

I would have a whole lot more confidence in the ACA if and only if they could show me where some truly intelligent people had worked together to come up with it. If this was concocted by politicians I am absolutely 100% sure that it will line their pocketbooks more than it will help people regardless of whether the "right wing ding bats" or the left wing morons designed it. Let me put it this way if I need a car tuned I'm going to take it to IPS not Home Depot much the same way that if I'm going to stand behind a health care plan it's going to be designed by people that know what their doing and not politicians.

 

Yep, I agree.

 

She doesn't need help, she's broken beyond repair. The assistance she gets is for those children, both in concept and in execution. The reason you and I aren't worthless drains on society is that we had parents who took the time to raise us properly. We can't force her to raise her kids right, and it'd be a gross government overreach to take her kids away without some sign of child abuse, so this token amount of money we give her for food to feed her kids is our way of trying to make sure that the kids are fed and the mom has time to raise them for at least part of the day instead letting them eat cockroaches and get raised by gangsters. After all, these kids could either be paying your social security in 40 years, or they can be robbing your house. You have a stake in their future because that's how societies work.

 

Nobody likes giving money to people like that, and there's never going to be a perfectly efficient way to make sure that recipients of government assistance are using it 100% wisely. For example, you're telling me that my tax dollars are going towards your college education. That's great! I'm happy to do it because it will make you a more productive member of society. How would you feel if I put conditions on that money saying that while you were receiving FAFSA benefits you could only eat ramen and drive a 1998 Ford Taurus?

 

It's a tricky thing, see. I myself get huge tax breaks because I have kids and a mortgage, but nobody gets furious when I blow money foolishly (which I do a lot, ask me about my chumpcar team sometime). If I didn't get those tax breaks I'd have to cut back on my foolish spending.

 

The only reason I ever speak up is to correct misconceptions and try and put things in perspective. Conservatives of late have this all-consuming hatred of anything government, and that's just not what life's about. I don't think the ACA is the right answer, but I also don't think it's going to destroy America. I can't understand why conservatives are expending so much effort in hating this thing. I understand that it's frustrating knowing your tax dollars are going help poor people pay for insurance, but wouldn't you rest better realizing that you're a 22-year-old college student, which means you probably pay nothing or next to nothing in federal income taxes? Especially when you consider that you're getting financial aid? Doesn't that perspective make you feel better?

 

Let me tell you a story, that has nothing to do with a man named Brady, but has everything to do with why I hate the ACA.

 

The issues this law is causing anger me, a bunch. I have one relative that is 100% screwed because of this law. Long story short his small business employer is cutting his hours and forcing him onto ACA. So he is now making less money, has to buy healthcare, and figure out how he is paying for school too. How is that a good thing?

 

You are 100% right, there are some tricky areas that are hard to figure out. If you know there is someone abusing the system, why not do something about it? When I worked at a gas station in college and I saw people abusing their welfare cards I called that shit in. You want to pull a scam, fuck you I'm taking you down.

[Geeesammy]

For example, you're telling me that my tax dollars are going towards your college education. That's great! I'm happy to do it because it will make you a more productive member of society. How would you feel if I put conditions on that money saying that while you were receiving FAFSA benefits you could only eat ramen and drive a 1998 Ford Taurus?

 

The only reason I ever speak up is to correct misconceptions and try and put things in perspective. Conservatives of late have this all-consuming hatred of anything government, and that's just not what life's about. I don't think the ACA is the right answer, but I also don't think it's going to destroy America. I can't understand why conservatives are expending so much effort in hating this thing. I understand that it's frustrating knowing your tax dollars are going help poor people pay for insurance, but wouldn't you rest better realizing that you're a 22-year-old college student, which means you probably pay nothing or next to nothing in federal income taxes? Especially when you consider that you're getting financial aid? Doesn't that perspective make you feel better?

 

Not that it's really anyone's business but my own, but I literally get next to nothing for financial aid. By this I mean I get no "free money." I qualify for federal loans, and mainly unsubsidized loans at that. So if your tax dollars go towards anything, it is 10% of the cost of one semester's tuition, and not even the tuition, just the "subsidized interest" that I get. I'm certain if some stipulation came down saying I had to sell my car and drive a Ford Taurus in place of my Supra I'd do it, considering it would likely get better fuel economy and be cheaper to fix than my car.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't have issue number one with helping someone who is actually in need, and doesnt just think they are. The perspective I pay "next to nothing" in taxes actually made me laugh. If this is "next to nothing" then I would hate to see what "normal" is.

[greg1647545532]

The issues this law is causing anger me, a bunch. I have one relative that is 100% screwed because of this law. Long story short his small business employer is cutting his hours and forcing him onto ACA. So he is now making less money, has to buy healthcare, and figure out how he is paying for school too. How is that a good thing?

 

He should join a union.

 

It's hard for me to comment without knowing the specifics; how big the company is, what their profits are, what your friend does for them, etc. Companies have been converting full-time positions to part-time for decades as a way to cut costs, and a lot of companies are using the ACA as an excuse to divert bad press about it. I assume this isn't happening until 1 January? Because companies were cutting hours and blaming the ACA years ago, before it was anywhere close to being implemented. Makes them seem insincere.

 

If there really is nothing the company can do about it, then that's bad.

 

You are 100% right, there are some tricky areas that are hard to figure out. If you know there is someone abusing the system, why not do something about it? When I worked at a gas station in college and I saw people abusing their welfare cards I called that shit in. You want to pull a scam, fuck you I'm taking you down.

 

I applaud you for this. :thumbup:

[greg1647545532]

If this is "next to nothing" then I would hate to see what "normal" is.

 

Don't grow up then It sucks that way.

[AngryBMW]

What I don't get is, If the republicans are SOOOO sure that ACA is going to fuck everything up. Why not let it fail and you've pretty much secured future votes.

 

The real truth is, The majority of people who will be utilizing the exchange are getting health insurance cheaper than they could in the past. That's what the GOP Is soooo scared of. They know that if people like the ACA they won't be able to reverse it later.

 

 

To many people in this thread seem to be overlooking that we are required to carry car insurance, The reason Car insurance works is because your pooling your risk. On paper this reduces the total cost of car insurance for the masses. Why is the same not a good idea for health coverage?

 

You ether send everyone away with no money / insurance

or

You have a single payer system where all the risk is pooled together.

 

Option A is down right wrong, How can we be the best country in the world and not take care of our own.

 

Option B the idiot right wing ding bats hate it because well they don't even know why they hate it. I've heard people being interviewed who talk about things that will fix the system and there quote things that exist in the ACA.

 

 

Meh

 

My insurance is now more expensive and will continue to get more expensive. For me and my family, the ACA is NOT helpful.

 

Why let it continue now, cost 100's of millions/billions of dollars to simply fail at the end and prove a point? That is stupid. Stop it NOW before it bleeds the country dry.

 

How is the ACA going to save us money and provide better care??

 

Just by allowing people who were previously uninsurable to now 'pay' into the system and get 'guaranteed' money we are NOT increasing our revenue. Who is paying for the subsidies to make the insurance 'affordable' to the poor? Who is going to pay for the 1000's of new federal employees to (mis)manage the system? Who is actually guaranteeing the increased revenue to cover the additional costs? WE ARE by paying higher taxes, penalties, and higher health insurance costs.

 

Once again, please, pretty fucking please, explain to me how this is a good thing for me?

 

I am all about charity...when it is on MY terms. I work hard for what I have and I do not feel obligated to pay for people who choose not to do the same.

 

Here Bill, let’s give you a new example. Let’s make it so the ACA will be funded by donations. The ACA will ONLY cover what they can pay cash for with the donations they received. How far do you think it will get if we are not REQUIRED to fund it? How much of your check are you willing to contribute?

-Marc

[wagner]

Interesting read from another site. I did not get a chace to full fact check it.

 

First, Republicans went for a complete repeal of ObamaCare. When that was met with Democrat resistance, they offered 4 compromises that were also met with resistance by Senate Democrats:Compromise

1- One year delay to review the law that was passed UNREAD - Shut down by Democrats in the Senate.Compromise

 

2- Give individuals the same Equal relief that the POTUS gave to Big Business - Shut down by Democrats in the Senate.Compromise

 

3- Repeal the Medical Device Tax, which BTW had bipartisan support - Shut down by Democrats in the Senate.Compromise

 

4- Negotiate a "Compromise" in Conference Committee WITH SENATE DEMOCRATS - Shut down by Democrats in the Senate.

 

So, since the Senate Democrats decided to shut down the Govt., House Republicans decided that it would be a good idea to keep some things going. So, since the shutdown started, they passed bills to:

 

1. Pay the military

.2. Fund lifesaving research

.3. Open National Parks so that Americanscan enjoy their beautiful country

.4. Fund Nutritional Food Program for Low-Income Women and Children.

5. Keep critical veteran's services running

 

.But, STILL, these bills are being blocked by Senate Democrats. The only thing that top Democrats like Reid Pelosi and Obama have to say is, "We won't negotiate." and "It's the Republican's fault."