Columbus Light rail System

[greg1647545532]

What I am seeing in here is a lot of reasonable, logical arguments FOR light rail, and outside of a few intelligent thoughts, a lot of vitriol and bitterness being spewed against it in the guise of detest for politicians. If you have an actual argument, make it. If you only want to hate on politicians, then lets create a separate thread for that. I'll be in there with you.

 

I lived in DC for 5 years; some of those years I took the Metro to work, some of those years I commuted by car. The deciding factor was always whether or not I could afford parking, because aside from the whole "You can relax and read a book" angle the Metro was never as convenient as having a car. When I lived on Bolling AFB, my total commute time by train was a guaranteed 45-50 minutes each way, and by car it was 20-25 minutes in the AM and 40-60 minutes in the PM. I lived in Bethesda for 6 months and there my total commute time by train was 60 minutes each way, and by car it was 20 minutes in the AM and 55-65 minutes in the PM.

 

I will admit that there's a certain charm in not having to worry about how you're going to get home if you're drunk, but the primary driver by far in determining whether we were going to take the train was the availability of parking. And sure, I had a few friends who were able to eschew a car payment and insurance, but how much did I want to punch them in the face when they bragged about "public transportation is so great I don't even need a car!" and then they asked to borrow my car to go to Ikea or to take a trip to another city or visit a friend in the suburbs, or asked for a ride home at night because it'd be a 10 minute drive vs. an hour waiting for the non-peak-hour trains to show up.

 

And the metro was never paid for by ridership fees, despite that promise made every time there was an expansion in services. Most DC area residents were OK with paying the increased taxes in order to a) reduce road congestion and an already ridiculous parking situation, b) to have the snob appeal of living in a city with a good subway system, and c) to raise their own property values. Which brings me to the limits of a subway system, geography. When I was house shopping there, I thought it'd be great to live within half mile of a metro, but I couldn't afford the frickin' $250,000 premium to buy a house within convenient walking distance of a stop. My young coworkers could get a couple roommates and split the $3400/mo rent for a small 3 bedroom, but my child-having-ass would have been relegated to the ol' park and ride, which is one reason commuting on the Metro took longer in a lot of cases.

 

As you can tell, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with commuter trains, and my desire for one is directly dependent on whether or not it would run down Lave Ave by my house. I don't go downtown a lot, but is the parking situation really so bad that people would take public transportation to avoid it? In my experience, and especially compared to DC, it's totally not. I've never had a hard time finding a spot. Will it get that bad in the near future? This population estimate shows that Franklin County is expected to grow from 1.2 million people now to 1.36 million people by 2040. Doesn't seem like gridlock is imminent. Would a light rail system attract more people, to the point where the economic gains (increased taxes) would cover the costs? I'm not convinced. Would a light rail system attract more people to the point where Columbus would become even more desirable and therefore increase my property value? Perhaps, but that's a somewhat esoteric argument. If that's the line of logic we're going to take, then you're asking me to support a light rail system because light rail systems are cool, and we should all want to live in a city that's super cool. And as a self-admitted hipster, that argument does shamefully carry some weight, but it's not exactly a practical argument.

[Ry_Trapp01647545522]

i see a lot of "we need to be proactive" in here, but what happens if this turns out to be a massive tax leach that no one uses like amtrak? you can't just cancel it, there is no return for all the tax money put in, no, it'll just keep running, getting band-aids applied to it, and sucking up tax payer money year after year after year. the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy is short sighted and a great way to lose piles of cash by not truly understanding the market. i'm not saying this would crash and burn, but the possibility is very real and can't be discounted. this certainly isn't a black & white topic, there needs to be a LOT of research put into this to actually determine realistic feasibility.

 

and, doing something that will increase taxes all in the name of "the greater good" is pure bullshit and does nothing but hurt those that have to pay.

[l36tols1]

I live in a city now that is not over crowded and has a light rail. I purposely moved to an area where the light rail is walking distance away. I use it often to go to sporting events (Suns/D Back games .. even tailgating ASU games while wearing Buckeye gear) and just random events in the city (which there is A LOT of) that I know I will be drinking that day/night.

 

But then again Phoenix has a lot more going on in the city than Columbus does.

 

$2 light rail ride > $20-40 cab ride

 

Ok... bye

[Orion]

Ryan, Greg, thank you for adding something to the conversation.

 

Having been in some different cities, it is amazing to me to witness the difference in attitude re: their public transit. In Chicago, for instance, home built near the red line sell AT A PREMIUM to those further away...in many other cities, people would be like, "Ugh, I want nothing to do with that". It's a complex issue, for sure.

[TTQ B4U]

Ryan, Greg, thank you for adding something to the conversation.

 

Having been in some different cities, it is amazing to me to witness the difference in attitude re: their public transit. In Chicago, for instance, home built near the red line sell AT A PREMIUM to those further away...in many other cities, people would be like, "Ugh, I want nothing to do with that". It's a complex issue, for sure.

 

The difference is Columbus is like a 30 minute ride from the outer suburbs to downtown even in rush hour on a rainy day. Parking all day is dirt cheap.

 

Chicago is 35-60 minutes to downtown on any given day and parking is an arm and a leg. Gas costs more and taxes are more too. It's also not the morning ride that's the bitch, it's the evening rush that really sucks.

[zeitgeist57]

The fact this thread is still going on baffles me. There is no cost-benefit - by a LONG SHOT - that justifies development of a traditional "light rail" transit system in Columbus, OH in the year 2014.

 

I grew up in Cleveland - where the RTA has received numerous awards over the years - and have happy memories as a kid in the late '80s/early '90s walking to the Shaker Blvd "Rapid" line, and taking a German-made, electric train downtown to meet my dad after work on Fridays. We'd workout at the Cleveland Athletic Club, stop at Tower City where I could get a cassette single, and then drive home together. I lived in a city that has a great light rail system, and there is a negligable benefit to the community in 2014 from a business development or retention standpoint.

 

^^^BTW, that infrastructure in Cleveland (and Columbus, see below) was laid down in the late 1800's before cars became the normal method of transportation. Can you please, PLEASE tell me how a light rail system will benefit the 2014 infrastructure of Columbus? Infrastructure that is built around the car, roads, and buses that traverse them? I WANT a light rail system to work...but that is no longer a viable option.

 

P.S...if you go down about a foot on High Street, there are still steel rails from an ancient trolley system. Yeah...sounds like it was such a rousing success that it's still around today. ***Le GABE***

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/hc-history.htm

 

Sorry, guys...with cars getting to be faster and more efficient, and all of us fat, happy Americans valuing our personal space and time, I've got $100 that says there will never be a light-rail system in this city in our lifetime.

 

EDIT: Mandatory reading for anyone who wants to sound half-way intelligent when speaking to the specifics regarding costs and benefits of light rail systems in metropolitan areas of the U.S.: http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa750_web.pdf

 

"Heavy investment in rail transit at a time when irreversible forces will lead to declining transit ridership is like investing in manual typewriters as microcomputers became popular."

 

Maybe we should focus less on paying for rail that will cost $75-$200 million per mile, and help pay for the loan on Nationwide Arena. :gabe:

Edited November 25, 2014 by zeitgeist57
Providing context.

[TTQ B4U]

The fact this thread is still going on baffles me. There is no cost-benefit - by a LONG SHOT - that justifies development of a traditional "light rail" transit system in Columbus, OH in the year 2014.

 

I grew up in Cleveland - where the RTA has received numerous awards over the years - and have happy memories as a kid in the late '80s/early '90s walking to the Shaker Blvd "Rapid" line, and taking a German-made, electric train downtown to meet my dad after work on Fridays. We'd workout at the Cleveland Athletic Club, stop at Tower City where I could get a cassette single, and then drive home together. I lived in a city that has a great light rail system, and there is a negligable benefit to the community from a business development or retention standpoint.

 

Sorry, guys...with cars getting to be more efficient, and all of us fat, happy Americans valuing our personal space and time, I've got $100 that says there will never be a light-rail system in this city in our lifetime.

 

Haha! I forgot you grew up there. I grew up in the Park Estates in Lyndhurst and took the Benedictine bus along side the Rapid cars. Oh the joy of the 80's.