CR recommended handgun thread #2

[copperhead]

Since this pops up every few weeks, here's a list of handguns that are recommended or not recommended to buy for novice shooters. I'm not locking this thread because I need people's input. I don't know shit about revolvers so this is a group effort for sure. I'll edit the list as more people post. This will be broken down by classification of gun and purpose, so there will be some overlap. I can also add more categories later on.

 

I am skipping certain calibers on purpose. Rounds that are good defensive rounds but are hard to come by (9x18 Makarov, .357 Sig, .45 GAP) or simply overpowered for a novice (10mm, .44 Magnum) means that the person is far less likely to train. Defensive handgunning requires training whenever possible.

 

Everyone has an opinion on what they like. This list is more about what guns are proven to be reliable, high quality and generally well liked, along with being readily available and easy to find parts for/repair, especially for the CCW section. Because of this, regardless of how awesome one particular gun may be, if its hard to find or fix it doesn't belong on this list. Fanboys aside, I think we can all agree on what's crap and should be avoided at all costs.

 

As for the person ultimately looking to buy something - use this list as a reference, but nothing can replace actually holding a gun and firing it. Please rent before you buy. Everyone holds a gun differently, can manipulate the mag release and slide lock differently, and rack the slide differently.

 

Remember - train train train. Put your new gun through the paces, make sure it is reliable before depending on it with your life. Run at least a couple hundred rounds through it without an issue. If it has problems stop and evaluate the situation. Is it stovepiping, as in an empty shell is getting caught in the slide? Try locking your wrists and gripping it tighter. Is it having trouble feeding, or the slide not slamming all the way home? Make sure it's clean and lubricated, and the magazine is seated and locked in properly. Are you shooting consistently, but not where you are aiming? Have an experienced shooter give it a try - more likely than not your grip and how you are pulling the trigger is throwing off your shots. If several other people are also shooting off, or its still off when shooting from a supported rest the sights MAY need adjusted. If you are having real malfunctions, don't be afraid to send it back for warranty work instead of trying to screw with it yourself, or having Bubba down the street start mucking with it. This is one huge upside to buying new instead of used for your first gun, you aren't walking into someone else's problems. It's better to let the factory fix it than screw with it yourself.

 

Caliber choice is a tricky one - the debate will rage on forever whether you want to have more shots (9mm) or make bigger holes (.45). Going with .40 is the compromise between the two, but with today's defensive ammo the difference between them all is pretty minimal. If you still can't decide, you can't go wrong with 9mm. It's cheaper to buy, so it's cheaper to shoot, which means you can shoot more for the same money. It's also generally softer shooting than .40 or .45 in the same platform. To keep with the theme of being suggestions for novices and for simplicity sake, I'm not going to include anything larger than .45 ACP for semi autos and .357 magnum for revolvers.

 

Remember, these are suggestions for a novice shooter buying their first handgun. The goal is to get them into something that they enjoy immediately so they will keep shooting and not be discouraged by issues or discomfort from the start.

 

Here is the criteria to make this list. Not making the list doesn't mean not to ever consider it, just that it's not recommended for a novice shooter.

 

It must be:

Reliable

Accurate

Readily available at most average gun stores

Currently in production - can be bought new (no milsurp)

Ammo is widely available

Parts can be found locally or ordered online without too much trouble

Manufacturer must warranty it and fix it if it's not right

Solid fit and finish

Not too far away from the average price of competitors (not overly expensive)

Must be comfortable for most shooters

 

Not meeting one of these requirements isn't an automatic disqualification but means it will have to shine elsewhere, and will get a note about issues at the top. Not meeting two keeps it off the list. Not meeting three can start to push it towards the "do not buy" list, of which I also welcome suggestions. There are also guns that fit in the gray area where they can be useful, but aren't recommended for the novice shooter.

 

Reliability notes:

 

.380 in general - these are generally in the "mouse gun" or "pocket pistol" classification. These all tend to be hard to rack the slide, and I don't believe any of them have been proven to be 100% reliable. Suggested use is only if subcompacts can not be properly concealed. The Glock 42 has had some minor reliability problems, but otherwise is an excellent choice in this category.

 

Glock 19 has had a run recently with some sub-par parts, mainly involving extraction. After approximately 500-1,000 rounds they can begin extracting the brass very erratically, including into the shooter's face. They supposedly have fixed the problems. These can be fixed with aftermarket parts but it seems to be a crapshoot as to what combination of parts will fix each individual one. This problem affects Gen 3 and Gen 4 models. Problem solved.

 

Smith&Wesson M&P 9mm full size has had issues through most of their run of the barrel unlocking from the slide too early, causing "flyers" or occasional shots being way off target. This issue can be found immediately, and there's no way to tell if it's affected or not until firing it. An aftermarket barrel fixes the problem. It is still reliable, so it is otherwise still included on the list. This issue has been claimed to have been solved several times now, not sure if it's still an issue.

 

 

RECOMMENDED:

 

Concealed Carry:

 

.380 ACP (aka 9mm Kurz, 9x17mm, 9mm short)

 

Glock 42

Sig Sauer P238

Smith&Wesson Bodyguard

Walther PK380

 

9mm Luger (aka 9mm Parabellum, 9x19)

 

CZ 75 Compact

CZ P-01 (compact)

CZ P-07 Duty (compact)

Glock 19 (compact)

Glock 26 (subcompact)

Glock 43 (single stack subcompact)

Sig Sauer P229 (compact)

Sig Sauer P239 (subcompact)

Sig Sauer P938 (subcompact)

Ruger LC9 (subcompact)

Ruger SR9c (compact)

Smith&Wesson Shield 9mm (subcompact, single stack)

Smith&Wesson M&P 9c (compact)

Springfield XD Subcompact

Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact

Springfield XD-S (subcompact, single stack)

H&K P30 (compact)

H&K USP Compact

Walther PPS (subcompact)

 

.40 S&W

 

CZ P-06 (compact)

CZ P-07 Duty (compact)

Glock 23 (compact)

Glock 27 (subcompact)

Ruger SR40c (compact)

Sig Sauer P229 (compact)

Sig Sauer P239 (subcompact)

Smith&Wesson Shield .40 (subcompact, single stack)

Smith&Wesson M&P .40c (compact)

Springfield XD Subcompact

Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact

Springfield XD-S (subcompact, single stack)

H&K P30 (compact)

H&K USP Compact

Walther PPS (subcompact)

 

.38 Special/.357 Magnum (revolver)

 

Ruger LCR

Smith&Wesson J Frame

 

.45 ACP (.45 Auto)

 

Glock 30 (subcompact)

Glock 36 (subcompact, single stack)

Springfield XD-S (subcompact, single stack)

Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact

H&K USP Compact

 

Nightstand/Home Defense duty:

 

9mm Luger (aka 9mm Parabellum, 9x19)

 

CZ 75 (fullsize)

CZ 75 Compact

CZ P-01 (compact)

CZ P-07 Duty (compact)

CZ P-09 Duty (fullsize)

FN FNS (fullsize)

FN FNP (fullsize)

FN FNX (fullsize)

Glock 19 (compact)

Glock 17 (fullsize)

Ruger SR9c (compact)

Sig Sauer P226 (fullsize)

Sig Sauer P229 (compact)

Smith&Wesson M&P 9mm Fullsize

Smith&Wesson M&P 9c (compact)

Springfield XD Service (compact)

Springfield XDM 3.8 (compact)

Springfield XDM 4.5 (fullsize)

H&K P30 (compact)

H&K USP (fullsize)

H&K USP Compact

Walther PPQ (fullsize)

Walther PPX (fullsize)

 

.40 S&W

 

CZ 75 (fullsize)

CZ P-06 (compact)

CZ P-07 Duty (compact)

CZ P-09 Duty (fullsize)

FN FNS (fullsize)

FN FNP (fullsize)

FN FNX (fullsize)

Glock 23 (compact)

Glock 22 (fullsize)

Ruger SR40c (compact)

Sig Sauer P226 (fullsize)

Sig Sauer P229 (compact)

Smith&Wesson M&P .40 Fullsize

Smith&Wesson M&P .40c (compact)

Springfield XD Service (compact)

Springfield XDM 3.8 (compact)

Springfield XDM 4.5 (fullsize)

H&K P30 (compact)

H&K USP (fullsize)

H&K USP Compact

Walther PPQ (fullsize)

Walther PPX (fullsize)

 

.38 Special/.357 Magnum (revolver)

 

Smith&Wesson K frame

Smith&Wesson L frame

 

.45 ACP (aka .45 Auto)

 

1911 Variant (see below)

Glock 21 (fullsize)

FN FNP (fullsize)

FN FNX (fullsize)

Smith&Wesson M&P .45 Fullsize

Smith&Wesson M&P .45 Midsize

Smith&Wesson M&P .45c (compact)

Springfield XD Service (compact)

Springfield XDM 4.5 (fullsize)

H&K HK45c (compact)

H&K HK45 (fullsize)

H&K USP (fullsize)

H&K USP Compact

[Otis Nice]

Yup, the Rugers are missing. So are the FNs.

 

Nightstand/range:

 

FNP-9

FNX-9

FNP-40

FNX-40

 

Concealed: Ruger SR9c, Ruger SR40c,

 

Great idea. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

[87GT]

Saw a penetration video online talking about .380 ball verses HP. HP does not penetrate that much (7" if i remember through ballistic gel) compared to ball rounds. If you are going to carry a .380 for personal defense I would use ball ammo. I would carry HP for anything 9mm and larger.

[RedRocket1647545505]

Good thing the heart is only 2 inches behind your chest..... I think 6 rounds of 000 buck from a .410 shotgun shell is plenty enough

 

As long as you're comfortable with it. The ballistics experts of the world don't trust it, though.

[RyM3rC]

As long as you're comfortable with it. The ballistics experts of the world don't trust it, though.

 

+1 NEVER EVER trust your life to something marginal at best when you could go with a proven performer. Pistols are already pitiful compromises

[1fast5gp]

Good thing the heart is only 2 inches behind your chest..... I think 6 rounds of 000 buck from a .410 shotgun shell is plenty enough

 

something you are forgetting is clothes, ribs, chest muscles that is all protecting the heart. If you also assuming that your bullet entry is perpendicular to the heart as you are facing your assailant head on. I want a bullet that penetrates at least 12 inches while expanding as much as possible. I run 124gr Federal HSTs in all my 9mm handguns.

[Benner]

something you are forgetting is clothes, ribs, chest muscles that is all protecting the heart. If you also assuming that your bullet entry is perpendicular to the heart as you are facing your assailant head on. I want a bullet that penetrates at least 12 inches while expanding as much as possible. I run 124gr Federal HSTs in all my 9mm handguns.

 

This is the dumbest argument I've read in a long time. Unless you have someone hell bent to take your life (which if they're that determined they'll find a way anyway), even a lowly pellet gun is going to be enough to deter 99.999% of home intruders, muggers, and such.

 

If I'm firing a .22 caliber at you your not going to keep advancing. Your going to panic like a dog with their tail on fire and scramble.

[RedRocket1647545505]

This is the dumbest argument I've read in a long time. Unless you have someone hell bent to take your life (which if they're that determined they'll find a way anyway), even a lowly pellet gun is going to be enough to deter 99.999% of home intruders, muggers, and such.

 

If I'm firing a .22 caliber at you your not going to keep advancing. Your going to panic like a dog with their tail on fire and scramble.

 

Add drugs to that equation and then recalculate.

[copperhead]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions so far. This all has got me thinking and I think I need to clarify the scope of this post. I'll amend the first post as well to reflect this.

 

These are suggestions for a novice shooter buying their first handgun. In order to fill this role it needs to not be too difficult to shoot, so I'm going to exclude anything larger than .45 ACP in semi autos and .357 magnum in revolvers for the sake of simplicity.

 

Here is the rest of the criteria to make this list. Not making the list doesn't mean not to ever consider it, just that it's not recommended for a novice shooter.

 

It must be:

Reliable

Readily available at most average gun stores

Currently in production - can be bought new (no milsurp)

Ammo is widely available

Parts can be found locally or ordered online without too much trouble

Manufacturer must warranty it and fix it if it's not right

Solid fit and finish

Not too far away from the average price of competitors (not overly expensive)

Must be comfortable for most shooters

 

Not meeting one of these requirements isn't an automatic disqualification but means it will have to shine elsewhere, and will get a note about issues at the top. Not meeting two keeps it off the list. Not meeting three can start to push it towards the "do not buy" list, of which I also welcome suggestions. Some examples - Rohrbaugh may make some amazing guns, but limited availability and $800+ for a .380 pocket pistol kills it. Taurus has had issues lately with reliability and finishes, so while I'm not putting them on the do not buy list, I'm not comfortable suggesting them.

 

I'll update the first post with the suggestions so far and what I've posted here when I get a free minute.

[XChris1632X]

I feel comfortable with my wife using the judge for a nightstand gun. She actually enjoys it too. That is with target rounds.

[copperhead]

First post rewritten. I pulled Kel Tec off the list after a lot of thought. I'm also going to add a section for holsters.

 

Also, when making recommendations also mention if its a Fullsize, Compact or Subcompact. Since there's no clear definition of these use your best judgement, but generally speaking a subcompact is 3" barrel with short grip, compact is 4" barrel with a midsize or shortened grip, and a fullsize is a 5" barrel with a full size grip. This of course doesn't account for everything out there, so again just make a guess.

[KillJoy]

Kel Tec P3AT in the 380 mouse gun dept....

 

:thumbup:

 

KillJoy

[SuBaruA]

CZ 75 P07 Duty : Good for CCW, nightstand/HD, and range toy

CZ 75 P09 Duty: Good for Nightstand/HD and Range toy

CZ 75 P01/P06 : Good for Nightstand/HD and Range toy, okay for CCW due to it's weight.

+1 for the P07 Duty: It happens to be my cheapest, most accurate, and consistently performing gun; good for CCW with the BladeTech Deep Cover, the only issue is the hand grip stippling is very aggressive and can leave a little bit of rash if you don't wear an undershirt! So far every person I have given it to feels like its the coolest gun they've never heard of.

 

Also Kahr PM9 And P380 for CCW!

[copperhead]

Kel Tec P3AT in the 380 mouse gun dept....

 

:thumbup:

 

KillJoy

 

I had it on there, but deleted it. I'm thinking Kel Tec isn't so great for novices which is what this is geared towards. I'm not saying they are bad, they just don't fit in this list.

[copperhead]

+1 for the P07 Duty: It happens to be my cheapest, most accurate, and consistently performing gun; good for CCW with the BladeTech Deep Cover, the only issue is the hand grip stippling is very aggressive and can leave a little bit of rash if you don't wear an undershirt! So far every person I have given it to feels like its the coolest gun they've never heard of.

 

Also Kahr PM9 And P380 for CCW!

 

Try a holster that has leather that's cut up higher, night and day difference.

 

Also, they MSRP on those Kahr's are pretty damn high. Any idea what they realistically sell for?

[1fast5gp]

This is the dumbest argument I've read in a long time. Unless you have someone hell bent to take your life (which if they're that determined they'll find a way anyway), even a lowly pellet gun is going to be enough to deter 99.999% of home intruders, muggers, and such.

 

If I'm firing a .22 caliber at you your not going to keep advancing. Your going to panic like a dog with their tail on fire and scramble.

 

I guess you just can't fix stupid. :dumb: I'm sure all the experts are wrong. Why don't we just ban all guns and give everyone pellet guns because "even a lowly pellet gun is going to be enough to deter 99.999% of home intruders, muggers, and such." :dumb::dumb::dumb::dumb::dumb:

 

I do not use a gun to deter criminals. I will only use a gun as a last resort to protect my self and my family from harms way, as should everyone else. When that situation presents it self, I want a bullet that will stop the assailant no matter what kind of drugs he is on or what kind of mind set he has. Please stop giving people advice because you really have no freaking clue what you are talking about.

[LJ]

First post rewritten. I pulled Kel Tec off the list after a lot of thought. I'm also going to add a section for holsters.

 

Also, when making recommendations also mention if its a Fullsize, Compact or Subcompact. Since there's no clear definition of these use your best judgement, but generally speaking a subcompact is 3" barrel with short grip, compact is 4" barrel with a midsize or shortened grip, and a fullsize is a 5" barrel with a full size grip. This of course doesn't account for everything out there, so again just make a guess.

 

Yeah I like my Kel Tec P-11, but that trigger just is not suitable for a novice. My wife tried to shoot it once and couldn't even squeeze the trigger off.

[Ackbar00]

something you are forgetting is clothes, ribs, chest muscles that is all protecting the heart. If you also assuming that your bullet entry is perpendicular to the heart as you are facing your assailant head on. I want a bullet that penetrates at least 12 inches while expanding as much as possible. I run 124gr Federal HSTs in all my 9mm handguns.

 

 

Each shot is sending 4 pellets. Multiply that by 6 and I now have 20 "rounds" at the target all in the upper Torso area. Think my odds are good.

[copperhead]

Please keep this on topic. I really don't want to have to start deleting posts.

 

Yeah I like my Kel Tec P-11, but that trigger just is not suitable for a novice. My wife tried to shoot it once and couldn't even squeeze the trigger off.

 

Exactly my point. I personally own a P3AT, and I'm not sure I'd recommend it to others. My girlfriend has shot it, and won't shoot it again. It's only good for if you absolutely can't conceal something better. Since I got my Shield it's not left the dresser.

[1fast5gp]

Each shot is sending 4 pellets. Multiply that by 6 and I now have 20 "rounds" at the target all in the upper Torso area. Think my odds are good.

 

Well, to each his own.

[87GT]

Each shot is sending 4 pellets. Multiply that by 6 and I now have 20 "rounds" at the target all in the upper Torso area. Think my odds are good.

 

I would think your odds are "good" if you are within grabbing distance from an attacker and you already on target ready to fire. At this point a nice knife would be a worse threat.

 

I think of .410 as "expert shotguns". They will barely spread and only a few shots in the cartridge. Try shooting trap with one if you haven't already. And if you are up for a challenge try it with a 1 shot bolt action .410. You can use mine

[RedRocket1647545505]

4 x 6 = 20

[Rustlestiltskin]

Great thread. My one recommendation is to find a range where you can rent pistols and feel whats right in your hand. Its easy to say what pistol is good and which isn't but its a world of difference when you're actually holding it.

[SuBaruA]

Try a holster that has leather that's cut up higher, night and day difference.

 

Also, they MSRP on those Kahr's are pretty damn high. Any idea what they realistically sell for?

 

Street price doesn't seem to exceed 450$ for most of them nowadays; I don't think I would shell out MSRP for them, just seems a tad excessive!

[Radio Flyer1647545514]

Kahr CM9, CW9, PM9, K9, MK9 all are good CCW guns in 9mm.

 

Sig P290RS (Special note to the RS)

 

Full Size: Beretta 92 should be up there as well.

 

Recommended Holsters: Milt Sparks, well worth the money and the wait. Talk about honestly forgetting you're carrying.