Let's discuss CR

[Miller]

I think Cordell's post was timely. I've been thinking for months that the activity here has fallen fairly flat. More so than in years past and much earlier in the year than I've seen before. I don't have the states but my guess is there's like 50 fairly active posters and maybe another 50 semi active. The rest....ghosts.

 

That's cool, but thinking about all the folks I've turned onto CR and how many actually have either joined and left or just plain said no thanks based on what they've heard, I do think the post was timely. I love coming here but do hope more people join up and bring more new ideas to the table.

 

I also think that many of the points posted are valid both in terms of positives and yes the negatives. All the latter are, are opportunities. I tend to look less at who said what than what is actually said. I don't think everyone does that. IMO I see more people looking at screen names and then reading the comments and forming an opinion.

 

I hope that helps clarify my opinion.

I understand now thanks. I agree. I thought you were citing something specific to page 4.

[Mojoe]

I must have missed this thread, care to link me? I've mentioned it in CB since it seems everytime I post in a thread in the forum I get banned from the thread.

 

PMd, just to be sure we are on the same page.

[TTQ B4U]

So basically what you are saying is that you want to take a car forum of very diverse people and opinions and tell them what they can and cannot say. You want it to be an over moderated dictatorship where people cannot post their opinions or have some fun? You know what you will have left? Absolutely nothing. We are told we over moderate the forum as it is.

 

I don't think that what he's saying but I know he'll chime back in to clarify. What I would say is that NO you and Ant. don't have to moderate more, I think what's being asked for is we all begin to moderate and police ourselves so as to not alienate or fight or bully as much. Perhaps Gee's tollerance is lower or maybe he just has a different experience in the past driving his opinion. Don't know.

 

"Start deleting posts where offensive things are happening" - Who gets to judge whats offensive? Whats offensive to you may not be offensive to me.

Here I'd say people just generally can get away with more un-civil and rude/offensive comments to those that have been around longer or they know vs the new members. Again, if we police ourselves to not be so blunt on new people perhaps. Again, just tossing out an opinion.

 

If you don't like the kitchen section, stay out of it. If you don't like the people on the forum and think they are a bunch of douche-bags, there is a logoff button in the top corner, I suggest you use it and forget the password to log back in.

Agree.

[Orion]

We're all dicks at some point, especially behind a keyboard. The real mark of it all though is are we that way face to face. He's not the only one I've changed judgement on when we've finally met. The good news is more have gone to the better than the worse when that has happens and in my book that shows character for that individual.

 

I have to disagree. Not everyone becomes a dick behind a keyboard, and not everyone remembers not to be an overbearing, know it all jerk IRL. What that shows is a LACK of character. Character has to do with being the same guy all the time, regardless of who's looking or what medium your are expressing yourself through. (This is sure to sounded pointed, but I am actually meaning to be general in my intent. I apologize for any offense). I understand that what you meant is that you actually enjoy the people here more IRL than on the board, and that makes perfect sense...a lot of us do. I miss being able to see you assholes on a regular basis, and give you noogies.

 

The people on the board have grown (maybe not in maturity) and have more adult problems now. Kids, mortgages, loans, families, yada yada. As the group has grown up, people have branched off, gotten into different things (guns, politics, spanish monkey porn) and cars, while in most cases still a love, are now splitting time. It's just how it goes, y'all. What Doc said really is legit, we have become the metallica of local enthusiast boards. Edgy and cool garage band that rocks like no other...and now were older and doing some different stuff that a lot of the OG fans may not like. Sometimes a return to the original (like St. Anger) just ends up being even more poorly rec'd than the changes already experienced.

 

Embrace what we have grown into. Check out the CB, do cars and coffee (created by a member, props Clay), hit up an autox event (which CR/CB is damn near running nowadays), match wits with Geeto and I in useless online arguments (that will actually remind you of OG CR, but smarter, if you're wondering), revel in Tilley's luxurious hair stylings...

 

We are who we have always been...just different. And that's good and bad. Take it or leave it.

[Geeto67]

So basically what you are saying is that you want to take a car forum of very diverse people and opinions and tell them what they can and cannot say.

In a very oversimplified manner yes. I think of it more as enforcing some standards toward civility.

 

You want it to be an over moderated dictatorship where people cannot post their opinions or have some fun?

No. It is not an all or nothing proposition. You can tone it down a little and still have most of what makes conversation here fun.

 

You know what you will have left? Absolutely nothing. We are told we over moderate the forum as it is.

speculation, but again not an all or nothing proposition. Also this smacks of the inmates running the prison. of course they are going to complain the bars are too confining and the beds are too hard, they don't have the control.

 

"Start deleting posts where offensive things are happening" - Who gets to judge whats offensive? Whats offensive to you may not be offensive to me.

That's the job of the mods and site admin. You set some simple and clear standards and you trust your mods judgement to enforce the spirit of the rules. This isn't rocket surgery, plenty of boards do it today. once you start to do it the masses will police themselves. Right now you have a bunch of "sheriffs" going around unchecked without mod power who respond to minor scrapes with more offensive behavior.

 

If you don't like the kitchen section, stay out of it. If you don't like the people on the forum and think they are a bunch of douche-bags, there is a logoff button in the top corner, I suggest you use it and forget the password to log back in. If you need help with this last part I can definitely make it happen for you.

 

Whatever my feelings on the kitchen, this has more than once spilled out into other sections. And to be honest from my personal observation most that visit the board don't really visit the sections, they click new posts and just read what ever title catches their eye. I know I do and so do a few others I have seen, often I am checking afterwards what section the post actually was in. Take the kitchen out of that loop and you cut down on the accidental tourists.

[Geeto67]

I have to disagree. Not everyone becomes a dick behind a keyboard, and not everyone remembers not to be an overbearing, know it all jerk IRL. What that shows is a LACK of character. Character has to do with being the same guy all the time, regardless of who's looking or what medium your are expressing yourself through. (This is sure to sounded pointed, but I am actually meaning to be general in my intent. I apologize for any offense). I understand that what you meant is that you actually enjoy the people here more IRL than on the board, and that makes perfect sense...a lot of us do. I miss being able to see you assholes on a regular basis, and give you noogies.

 

you just don't like me. You have made up your mind and it's easy to justify given your perceived intellect. nothing here has any credibility and only bias.

[Patterson]

The Kitchen is a healthy thing though. Siblings have to duke it out sometimes. Or you wanna fool around.

[Orion]

you just don't like me. You have made up your mind and it's easy to justify given your perceived intellect. nothing here has any credibility and only bias.

 

Does this mean you don't want to be like me anymore?

 

:lolguy:

[TTQ B4U]

I have to disagree. Not everyone becomes a dick behind a keyboard, and not everyone remembers not to be an overbearing, know it all jerk IRL. What that shows is a LACK of character. Character has to do with being the same guy all the time, regardless of who's looking or what medium your are expressing yourself through.

 

Fair points of clarification for sure. I didn't mean that we are all in fact a dick behind a keyboard, but I do think many here including myself can be a bit more blunt more quickly. In Tilly's world I think it's called disinhibition. Sometimes however people do it purposefully. We see it here sometimes in an exaggerated fashion towards funny, crazy, sometimes asshole behaviors, but I don't equate that to lack of character. Just someone amplifying an online persona.

(This is sure to sounded pointed, but I am actually meaning to be general in my intent. I apologize for any offense). I understand that what you meant is that you actually enjoy the people here more IRL than on the board, and that makes perfect sense.

No offense taken even if it was directed at me I do enjoy the face time more but online happens more often and is fun as hell too.

[Geeto67]

The Kitchen is a healthy thing though. Siblings have to duke it out sometimes. Or you wanna fool around.

 

I'm not saying get rid of it entirely, and I fully recognize it has it's place.

 

However it enjoys prominent placement on the page and is shuffled in with all of the more mundane updates so a new person not as familiar with the board doesn't accidentally stumble into the wrong topic and it melts his face.

[Green Bastard]

Here is my newbie take:

 

This place has a horrible and well earned reputation of being a douchebag motel. It is a reputation supported by only a few members but it is a plague on the whole of the community. Before I signed up this forum was recommended to me three different times by three well known members here and they all said the same thing -it's a pretty good place but be careful there are some real assholes. I signed up and was not disappointed right from the first non-oven post.

 

the poor behavior of the few causes more poor behavior, it's a defensive reaction. Even after I joined the only reason I stayed is people I would see at CC&C would talk about something cool and then I would go look at it, and then look at three other posts and get severely disappointed. Bad behavior is not punished around here so there is no incentive for the "really long time" assholes to do anything but continue. I have said it before I think this place has a bit of an identity problem, it want's to be too many different things and it doesn't focus on the strengths.

 

My take is this: moderate more. This place should be friendly and supportive of a real life community, not a toilet into which 5 or 6 senior members piss on all the others and hardest on the newbies. That CR shredder crew or whatever you call it? yeah that needs to stop. I think someone said it in the crucial performance thread where nobody wants to stay where they come here to talk about their 1958 impala show and get told to fuck their mother and make a sister (i'm paraphrasing here but you get the point).

 

Here is a really easy change (in my mind being ignorant of vbulliten software): take the kitchen, move it to the bottom of the page, and then remove the topics from the "new posts" search link. That way the kitchen dwellers can stay mostly where they are and not rattle the rest of the population. Hide the trolls in the basement.

 

Also start deleting the posts where offensive things are happening. if a nasty back and forth is going on, lock the thread, pm each member a warning, delete the off topic posts and then unlock it. Oh and actually enforce the harassing behavior policy.

 

As far as new members, the car hobby is huge, even if in decline there are still plenty of people to go around. if you don't clean up the real life image of this place people just won't come here.

 

I am all for supporting more car content, more events content, and more general good nature discussions. Everybody I have met from here in real life so far has turned out to be wonderful. but they don't post as often and it probably has to do a lot with the amount of garbage that is allowed. you want a community to grow? be a community not an area for a small minority of members who feel they have some entitlement because they have been here longer.

 

just my 2 cents.

 

You think it is bad here now? You should have been here when I joined. This place is a much valmer place the past couple years.

[AudiOn19s]

CR is fine. I will come visit every day no matter what even if I don't post all the time. It's evolved in ways, it hasn't in others.

[Robochan]

Let me get this straight, getto joins a racing forum, does no racing, banters on showing his hypocrisy and asks to change the forum all from the presidential suite of the douche motel.

 

Ok.

[Orion]

No offense taken even if it was directed at me I do enjoy the face time more but online happens more often and is fun as hell too.

 

The apology was meant more for Geeto, as he is who you had originally been responding to. I was trying to make a point WITHOUT bashing the Geetster, in this case.

[2highpsi]

good to know where to not buy a car anytime soon. shame too as you had a lot of high recommendations.

 

 

If I was on this site for business alone I obviously never would have posted that. I'm a member 1st and a Sponsor 2nd. I never came here for the purpose of doing business. I came here to talk racing, made a bunch of friends, and when they started doing business with me anyways I thought it was only right to try and support a group of people who supports me. If the site would suddenly ban "vending" I would still be here.

 

There are plenty of business owners that will blow sunshine and rainbows up your ass to your face, and talk shit about you when you aren't around. I'm not that guy. That same honesty though, is why a lot of people prefer to do business with me.

 

To be fair I made it a point to say you might be cool in real life and after reading his post, Tim sure thinks that is really is the case.

 

My point to you was merely instead of trying to change the online world, why not try to slightly modify the way YOU act in it. I seriously think if you wouldn't have had as many condescending devil's advocate posts you wouldn't have received any of the backlash that makes you want to fundamentally change the whole place.

[Miller]

Let me get this straight, getto joins a racing forum, does no racing, banters on showing his hypocrisy and asks to change the forum all from the presidential suite of the douche motel.

 

Ok.

 

I 'd

[Geeto67]

Let me get this straight, getto joins a racing forum, does no racing...

 

.

 

What do you know about me and my history? Part of my point is that I don't put content in here right now because this place kinda sucks for people doing positive things.

 

Have I done any racing recently? no. I had a kid and moved to ohio leaving behind my most of my cars and racing motorcycles. I'll own that. I've been a spectator at plenty of Mid-O and auto-x events here.

 

Know what I am not putting into this site? I'm currently working on an old NYC "street racer" cb750 motorcycle, bringing it back to running condition after not being run for 25 years, and adding a large amount period parts I have collected over the years. the best part? has some parts on it made by Carroll Shelby and Al Dowd. In 6 months I will be restoring from the ground up an old kawasaki triple racing motorcycle that was in competition from 1971-1986 and ran at nelson, charlotte, daytona, bridgehampton, etc...I don't put this stuff into this site because really I don't need some wonk calling me a homo because I painted my exhaust white. this is kind of my point, new people who put content into the board tend to get hammered on.

 

A great example of this is itzame and his Porsche 911/912 thread. lots of people hated that dude because he was a car flipper, not because of the content of the thread. it turned into a dog pile really quick.

[pontiacfreak142]

In a very oversimplified manner yes. I think of it more as enforcing some standards toward civility.

 

No. It is not an all or nothing proposition. You can tone it down a little and still have most of what makes conversation here fun.

 

speculation, but again not an all or nothing proposition. Also this smacks of the inmates running the prison. of course they are going to complain the bars are too confining and the beds are too hard, they don't have the control.

 

That's the job of the mods and site admin. You set some simple and clear standards and you trust your mods judgement to enforce the spirit of the rules. This isn't rocket surgery, plenty of boards do it today. once you start to do it the masses will police themselves. Right now you have a bunch of "sheriffs" going around unchecked without mod power who respond to minor scrapes with more offensive behavior.

 

 

 

Whatever my feelings on the kitchen, this has more than once spilled out into other sections. And to be honest from my personal observation most that visit the board don't really visit the sections, they click new posts and just read what ever title catches their eye. I know I do and so do a few others I have seen, often I am checking afterwards what section the post actually was in. Take the kitchen out of that loop and you cut down on the accidental tourists.

 

I was going to take time and make long response, but decided to keep it simple.

 

This board has been around many years before you were a member and has seen much worse than what goes on these days. While yes, some may get a bit out of hand, again, its nothing like it used to be, and little occurances like that can be dealt with as they come. Talking about treating this place like prison is going to do nothing more than run more people off. Most of us have been here long enough and are old enough to know whats acceptable and whats not and dont need some one cracking down on us.

 

Also since when is someone actually being told they are over moderating, speculation?

 

As for the kitchen, its just fine. Again, if you cant handle it, stay out

[Patterson]

You think it is bad here now? You should have been here when I joined. This place is a much valmer place the past couple years.

 

Sadly, that was brought on by association with your brother. Being he's so popular on here. It certainly wasn't deserved.

[Patterson]

What do you know about me and my history? Part of my point is that I don't put content in here right now because this place kinda sucks for people doing positive things.

 

Have I done any racing recently? no. I had a kid and moved to ohio leaving behind my most of my cars and racing motorcycles. I'll own that. I've been a spectator at plenty of Mid-O and auto-x events here.

 

Know what I am not putting into this site? I'm currently working on an old NYC "street racer" cb750 motorcycle, bringing it back to running condition after not being run for 25 years, and adding a large amount period parts I have collected over the years. the best part? has some parts on it made by Carroll Shelby and Al Dowd. In 6 months I will be restoring from the ground up an old kawasaki triple racing motorcycle that was in competition from 1971-1986 and ran at nelson, charlotte, daytona, bridgehampton, etc...I don't put this stuff into this site because really I don't need some wonk calling me a homo because I painted my exhaust white. this is kind of my point, new people who put content into the board tend to get hammered on.

 

A great example of this is itzame and his Porsche 911/912 thread. lots of people hated that dude because he was a car flipper, not because of the content of the thread. it turned into a dog pile really quick.

 

Why not post it in the project management section? Is it out of spite, slow progress, or worried about a "dog pile" when you sell it?

[blue98ls1]

In a very oversimplified manner yes. I think of it more as enforcing some standards toward civility.

 

No. It is not an all or nothing proposition. You can tone it down a little and still have most of what makes conversation here fun.

 

speculation, but again not an all or nothing proposition. Also this smacks of the inmates running the prison. of course they are going to complain the bars are too confining and the beds are too hard, they don't have the control.

 

That's the job of the mods and site admin. You set some simple and clear standards and you trust your mods judgement to enforce the spirit of the rules. This isn't rocket surgery, plenty of boards do it today. once you start to do it the masses will police themselves. Right now you have a bunch of "sheriffs" going around unchecked without mod power who respond to minor scrapes with more offensive behavior.

 

 

 

Whatever my feelings on the kitchen, this has more than once spilled out into other sections. And to be honest from my personal observation most that visit the board don't really visit the sections, they click new posts and just read what ever title catches their eye. I know I do and so do a few others I have seen, often I am checking afterwards what section the post actually was in. Take the kitchen out of that loop and you cut down on the accidental tourists.

 

The short answer to this stupidity is, no we will not be moderating the forum more. It does NOT need MORE moderation. Most people are completely civilized to each other unless you overly provoke them.

 

As for our mods on this forum, these are trusted members that we personally know to do what needs done on this forum. Being a moderator on this forum is voluntary and we appreciate every one of them for helping shape CR into what it is. Past and present.

 

Unlike most other forums you need to realize most of the members on this forum know each other personally. Some jokes shared between friends may look offensive to an "outsider" which is why some people believe you need to have a thick skin to be a part of this forum. In reality most people do like each other and even hang out with each other in person.

 

And as for the kitchen and the threads in it, it is clearly marked a kitchen thread when looking at new posts. If you can't take the couple seconds to fully read what forum its in before clicking on it, this is your problem, not ours.

[Geeto67]

Why not post it in the project management section? Is it out of spite, slow progress, or worried about a "dog pile" when you sell it?

 

at this point - doesn't matter anywhere I post it is going to draw something like 2highpsi's response just because of who I am so there is no point. If you haven't noticed I have quite the fan club and they follow me around to call me a narcisist and a racist, and all sorts of other "ists" because I am against confederate flag guns stocks or other some nonsense. Problem isn't limited to me though, most newbies get some kind of hard time regardless, so there is no incentive.

[blue98ls1]

If you have nothing to contribute and feel you have a growing fan club of haters, not to mention your dislike for the people on the forum, what keeps bringing you back?

[Patterson]

at this point - doesn't matter anywhere I post it is going to draw something like 2highpsi's response just because of who I am so there is no point. If you haven't noticed I have quite the fan club and they follow me around to call me a narcisist and a racist, and all sorts of other "ists" because I am against confederate flag guns stocks or other some nonsense. Problem isn't limited to me though, most newbies get some kind of hard time regardless, so there is no incentive.

 

 

Why not add enthusiast"ists" to that list? Regardless of the conduct and preaching through other threads, theory of economics and all that malarkey, when you post something truly automotive like a project, negativity begins goes away. Usually.

[TTQ B4U]

My point to you was merely instead of trying to change the online world, why not try to slightly modify the way YOU act in it. I seriously think if you wouldn't have had as many condescending devil's advocate posts you wouldn't have received any of the backlash that makes you want to fundamentally change the whole place.

 

^^ the above is the point I referenced earlier about him fitting in better if he wasn't so new to the site. I think some of the blunt and harsh/challenging posts earlier on set the tone that many didn't like. if he was 2-3yrs into CR he'd fit right in.