Trouble Maker Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I'm rewiring almost my entire house, moving the panel, upgrading service and having the line buried. I want to modernize as much as possible. Right now we have a 14 (really 12) breaker Push Matic that's in a kitchen cabinet. Yup, you read that right, have to love old houses! We are planning to gut and redo our kitchen soon, so that panel has to go. Maybe the simplest question is, can I have a breaker for service disconnect installed outside and still do a main breaker panel inside? http://www.columbusracing.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=563&pictureid=8390 The big issue is that it seems like the 3' clearance to an open window can't be done and have the service entrance go into the side of the house (black+yellow). That would make the line around 6' inside. So I think I need to do just the black line. If so, the line inside will be longer than 6' inside, requiring a breaker outside. The imaginary panel is as far to the left as possible in that image. The back portion of my house is on a crawl. But I want to install a panel with a generator interlock to have a manual transfer safely, which interlocks out the main breaker on the panel. So to do that I need my panel to be main breaker. Panel I would like to use http://www.lowes.com/pd_383899-48019-TTV2003C_0__?productId=4729171 I actually like the idea of a service disconnect breaker outside. Since one can turn it off and completely disconnect everything inside, allowing very safely work in the panel in the future. Also, what does 3' of clearance mean, exactly, to the open window or the window if I didn't have storms, or the outside edge of the trim? Do I need 3' of clearance to all of the other stuff on the side of my house or just the window? Another alternative is to do black+pink, that would get me 3' the the open window. But that way seems strange. It would have to go in front of the block glass window and in through the block. Is there a requirement for how far above ground level the line has to be? Edited December 13, 2015 by Trouble Maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy2285 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I moved the electrical panel about 20 ft to a closet on my rental a few years ago. Installed a disconnect on the outside with no problems when inspected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I moved the electrical panel about 20 ft to a closet on my rental a few years ago. Installed a disconnect on the outside with no problems when inspected. Yeah, I was able to dig some more and it seems like this is OK. I didn't think it would actually be an issue, but some NEC rules don't always follow logic. I ordered the panel in my link above and this meter socket/main combo. https://www.downloads.siemens.com/download-center/Download.aspx?pos=download&fct=getasset&id1=BTLV_22771 http://www.amazon.com/Siemens-Energy-6513048-Meter-Socket/dp/B00DHL9HCG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 You must have really done some good research on all of this. I've never actually seen those type of panels its a pretty nice setup really if your going the large manual transfer route. Most of the setups i install are all automatic. Yes you are fine doing the two main breaker deal.... you just need to make sure you use the correct wiring and have it grounded/bonded properly. Since the breaker outside will be the first means of disconnect you will only have 3 wires coming from the meter to that breaker. 2 hots and a neutral, then from there you will run 4/0 SER cable into the house to the reliance panel which you will not install the green bonding screw and will have to have 2 seperate bars 1 for the grounds and 1 for the neutrals. You will run a ground rod outside by the meter and then run a #4 copper wire into the meter/breaker combo and bond it all there. The 3 foot deal is just as you said.... 3 foot away from the open window... i really thought it applied more to overhead exposed wiring but i would have to double check the codes. As far as height..... you should be fine as long as the center of the breaker is no higher than 6' from ground level. Your picture isnt working on my phone [emoji53] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versluis Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 What kind of generator will you run? We make a NEMA 3R automatic transfer switch if you want it outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 I already ordered the panel, outdoor (nema 3r) L14-30 connector and extension cord. Planning to get this generator http://m.harborfreight.com/8750-peak7000-running-watts-13-hp-420cc-generator-epa-iii-68530.html I don't see the necessity of an automatic system personally, versus the cost. If our power goes out for long enough to warrant the generator I will pull it out of the garage, switch everything over and start it up. Not worth the extra cost for the little bit of time needed every few years when we will need this. Out of curiosity, any info on the automatic transfer? I can always change the generator over to NG later, and change over to all automatic stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all of the good info SloSV, it confirms a lot of what I was wondering about the wiring. The socket and main breaker (first disconnect) are one part and prewired internally. I assume that is where you meant I need to have only 3 wires. After the first disconnect, outside, it needs to be 4 wires (hot, hot, ground and neutral) to the panel right? The inside looks like this. https://www.downloads.siemens.com/download-center/Download.aspx?pos=download&fct=getasset&id1=BTLV_22771 There is a bus bar in the meter/main breaker with one big lug on the socket side for neutral in, 2 big ones on the breaker side for neutral/ground out, and 2 little ones for earth rod ground. Any good sources for small parts? Having a little bit of a hard time finding things like a 2 inch water proof connector or a sill plate for my service entrance cable. Edited December 13, 2015 by Trouble Maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Apparently, maybe, I don't know how to use the google's that well yet and posted a picture only I can see. Put the original image up on CRs albums so everyone should be able to see it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Ok now i see the picture better.... can you not just come out of the bottom of the disconnect/meter and go straight into the house underneath it? Then run the wire inside the house so u avoid the window all together??? And yes you are right about the wiring, all the neutrals/grounds will go on that neutral bar. As far as a water proof connector its not really needed.....i typically just use a standard connector for the wire. The wire comes out of the bottom of the panel if water somehow manges to get inside that way you have way bigger issues.... What kind of sill plate are u looking for??? Normally just drill a hole and run the wire inside then caulk/seal the hole. Home depot/lowes should have everything needed..... actually i will take that back.... they will have everything except for the 4/0 SER cable.... menards or loeb will have that though. You could also pipe it inside if you are going for a cleaner look..... totally up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Ok now i see the picture better.... can you not just come out of the bottom of the disconnect/meter and go straight into the house underneath it? Then run the wire inside the house so u avoid the window all together??? Yes, after the info in this thread and digging some more, that's what I'm going to do. Since I can do a main breaker disconnect outside and do a main breaker panel inside, all is well. And yes you are right about the wiring, all the neutrals/grounds will go on that neutral bar. Thanks for confirming! As far as a water proof connector its not really needed.....i typically just use a standard connector for the wire. The wire comes out of the bottom of the panel if water somehow manges to get inside that way you have way bigger issues... Ok, I assumed I needed a water proof connector. If not, I'm fine with using a regular connector. What kind of sill plate are u looking for??? Normally just drill a hole and run the wire inside then caulk/seal the hole. I don't know enough to know 'what kind', honestly. Again, I thought I would need something where it goes into the house. If what you said is OK, I'm fine with that. It's on a side of the house we don't really go to, is not very visible due to being in the 'forest' you see in that picture, that's why I'm putting it there. I think it will look and work fine. Any special caulking I'm supposed to use? Home depot/lowes should have everything needed..... actually i will take that back.... they will have everything except for the 4/0 SER cable.... menards or loeb will have that though. Surprisingly enough, they do I have it. I have no affinity to Lowes, it's just the closest big box store to me. Am I 'allowed' to go to Loeb, being a regular old home owner? I think I would prefer there, even if it cost some more. It seems like a place like that will have more of what I'm looking for and be able to answer any questions I have. You could also pipe it inside if you are going for a cleaner look..... totally up to you. I actually think I would prefer that, but can I run SER in conduit? I thought I either needed to do SER, or THHN/XHHW in going in conduit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yea as long as there is a disconnect outside of the house you can run 1000' of wire inside the house if you wanted/needed. Just make sure the hole is big enough to give the wire a little room on all sides then whatever caulking you want really, ive used spray foam, silicone, what we call duct seal. Its all about the same really..... i would maybe caulk all around it on the outside with a matching waterproof/color you like then go inside and shoot a bit of sprayfoam all around it. Make sure to leave a small swag/tension loop at the bottom before it goes in thw house.... dont just pull it straight and tight there are rules on bending radius. As far as the conduit thing.... biggest issue with that is the cost will go up quite a bit. You could pipe it fully to the panel then you pull in regular thhn wire. You are right you cant run the SER inside conduit..... it becomes a raceway inside a raceway which is against code and could cause heat issues. So.... either conduit all the way or you set a junction box and switch from thhn back to SER.... if thats what you really want to do. For simplicity/cost SER all the way is the best. You should be able to go to loeb no problem.... but just because its an electrical supply house doesn't necessarily mean they know what they are talking about.... most are just salesmen lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versluis Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I already ordered the panel, outdoor (nema 3r) L14-30 connector and extension cord. Planning to get this generator http://m.harborfreight.com/8750-peak7000-running-watts-13-hp-420cc-generator-epa-iii-68530.html I don't see the necessity of an automatic system personally, versus the cost. If our power goes out for long enough to warrant the generator I will pull it out of the garage, switch everything over and start it up. Not worth the extra cost for the little bit of time needed every few years when we will need this. Out of curiosity, any info on the automatic transfer? I can always change the generator over to NG later, and change over to all automatic stuff. I sent you a PM for some info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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