Political Thread Of Fail And AIDS (Geeto ahead!)

[BStowers023]

This is a bullshit statement and you know it. You're an intelligent guy, why do say things that aren't intelligent? are you genuinely trolling with this or do you really believe it? serious question.

 

Does political violence come from the left. Serious question

[greg1647545532]

Does political violence come from the left. Serious question

 

Guns don't kill people, liberals kill people.

[BStowers023]

Guns don't kill people, liberals kill people.

 

No, thankfully they don't have a good enough shot.

[greg1647545532]

No, thankfully they don't have a good enough shot.

 

Liberals are dangerous!

 

Liberals are too inept to be dangerous!

[Geeto67]

Except since Trump was elected almost all of the political violence has been from the left..

I have highlighted, bold-ed, and underlined the problematic statement. I have marked in red the part which is bullshit.

 

 

 

Does political violence come from the left. Serious question

 

Does some political violence come from the left? sure. There is political violence on both sides of the aisle. Is political violence from the left increasing in volume? That may be true. Does it account for almost all the political violence? not even close.

 

For someone who works in an engineering field, I am disappointed that it is the math you are struggling with: Rate of change is not the same metric as volume.

 

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255619/fact-check-is-left-wing-violence-rising

 

 

Also, there is something much more disturbing going on with your logic that you are overlooking. You are not excluding some pretty traditional forms of conservative extremism (like white supremacists) but are willing to include equally extreme groups on the left side because it suits your narrative. You can't really do that, at least not without sounding like an asshole. Which you do. When you say stuff like this you sound like an uninformed asshole. I know you aren't an asshole, we've met, so why go out of your way to make people think it?

 

But this still undercuts the real problem....violence on the whole is on the rise because of the political division of this country. People like you, with your viewpoint, are adding to this problem by continuing to further the narrative that one particular group is responsible for it. You are the problem when you say things like the statement quoted at the top. You may not think you are because your moral superiority over liberals and your lack of desire to understand others' viewpoints blocks that vision, but that is the real issue.

 

Political division is an old tactic in American politics. It exploits the differences among a particular large group to prevent those from coming to a consensus as to what's in the best interests of the whole of that group. Opposition to this division tactic has always been met with violence because the strategy itself relies on violence. It's been used for over a century to keep the fires burining in the country for racial oppression and socio-economic oppression. It's track record speaks for itself.

[zeitgeist57]

*Sigh*... I have to reluctantly jump in.

 

Brandon, I voted for Trump as the "anti-Hillary", and I feel that he's earned every punch that's been thrown his way from the left and the media. Hearing alt-right whining about how terrible everyone treats Trump really bothers me: no one remembers the hateful things said about Obama? Selective memory much???

 

Hypocrites LOL.

[BStowers023]

Liberals are dangerous!

 

Liberals are too inept to be dangerous!

 

The difference is how long will the pit bull let the chihuahua bite it before it bites back.

 

 

I have highlighted, bold-ed, and underlined the problematic statement. I have marked in red the part which is bullshit.

 

 

Does some political violence come from the left? sure. There is political violence on both sides of the aisle. Is political violence from the left increasing in volume? That may be true. Does it account for almost all the political violence? not even close.

 

For someone who works in an engineering field, I am disappointed that it is the math you are struggling with: Rate of change is not the same metric as volume.

 

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/533255619/fact-check-is-left-wing-violence-rising

 

 

Also, there is something much more disturbing going on with your logic that you are overlooking. You are not excluding some pretty traditional forms of conservative extremism (like white supremacists) but are willing to include equally extreme groups on the left side because it suits your narrative. You can't really do that, at least not without sounding like an asshole. Which you do. When you say stuff like this you sound like an uninformed asshole. I know you aren't an asshole, we've met, so why go out of your way to make people think it?

 

But this still undercuts the real problem....violence on the whole is on the rise because of the political division of this country. People like you, with your viewpoint, are adding to this problem by continuing to further the narrative that one particular group is responsible for it. You are the problem when you say things like the statement quoted at the top. You may not think you are because your moral superiority over liberals and your lack of desire to understand others' viewpoints blocks that vision, but that is the real issue.

 

Political division is an old tactic in American politics. It exploits the differences among a particular large group to prevent those from coming to a consensus as to what's in the best interests of the whole of that group. Opposition to this division tactic has always been met with violence because the strategy itself relies on violence. It's been used for over a century to keep the fires burining in the country for racial oppression and socio-economic oppression. It's track record speaks for itself.

 

 

Yeah, I'm the problem. Forget about lunatics going out shooting republican politicians or "comedians" holding up sculptures of the Presidents decapitated skull. What about UC Berkeley? ANTIFA? Black Lives Matter? Rioting through the streets blaming the President for all of their problems. You're blaming me for words yet you seem to be giving your sides ACTIONS a pass. Give me a break man. Call me dumb all you want. You know exactly what I'm talking about. It only takes a person with 1 eye and some sense to see what's going on.

[BStowers023]

*Sigh*... I have to reluctantly jump in.

 

Brandon, I voted for Trump as the "anti-Hillary", and I feel that he's earned every punch that's been thrown his way from the left and the media. Hearing alt-right whining about how terrible everyone treats Trump really bothers me: no one remembers the hateful things said about Obama? Selective memory much???

 

Hypocrites LOL.

 

 

I didn't vote for Trump. The issue I have with everyone who dislikes the guy is quick to blame Trump for any issues that MIGHT effect them negatively but then write off anything good that happens as "oh the President doesn't control that."

 

Selective credit much??

[zeitgeist57]

You don't remember the "THANKS OBAMA" stuff?

[BStowers023]

You don't remember the "THANKS OBAMA" stuff?

 

Oh absolutely. Obama got blamed for a lot of things that were out of his control. But the same side crying wolf is the same side doing the blaming now. It goes round and round. I was rooting for Obama to do well and I was genuinely hoping for the best for our country. He was my commander in cheif the entire time I was in the military. Both sides are fucked but right now it's the left that is more fucked than the right. I am simply acknowledging that but every time I do I get a 5-6 paragraph response from Kerry or Greg telling me how wrong I am for thinking that. Because if my opinion doesn't agree with theirs, I must be dumb or stupid simply because I don't see things their way. So I retaliate by playing their game (I know I probably shouldn't but oh well) by calling them pussy and cuck and what not. It's a simple game of ring around the rosey, it's mostly entertaining.

[greg1647545532]

nm

[Geeto67]

I must be dumb or stupid simply because I don't see things their way....

 

no, but you really don't go out of your way to be informed on things and you pick some awful positions to back.

 

 

The difference is how long will the pit bull let the chihuahua bite it before it bites back.

 

so you see the other side as weaker? It's the tiny chihuahua? There's no other way to see it?

 

 

Yeah, I'm the problem.

 

The Problem is division and antagonism. You are one of many who add to the division and don't work toward reconciliation. It is the common item (and probably the only) you share with those who are perpetrating violence. You claim you are doing this because you are trolling and it's fun and what not, but you really believe what you say. so yes, you are adding to the problem, and you know you are adding to the problem, and you do it anyway because you are mad that people don't see things your way and that's it.

 

 

 

You're blaming me for words yet you seem to be giving your sides ACTIONS a pass.

 

I give no violence a pass. It's stupid, and it is a symptom of the problem. The problem that you are adding to. The one that pits Americans against each other. You don't really seem all that interested in collaborative problem solving, you just want to assign blame to someone, it's counter productive.

 

The thing is, all you have to do is change your approach. nobody is asking you to give up your opinions, just to be open that they may not be based on what's good for everybody, or they may be based on mis-information or a lack of information.

 

 

... but then write off anything good that happens as "oh the President doesn't control that." ...

 

Well...maybe he doesn't. Show me one thing the president is in control of that was empirically and objectively good that Trump is responsible for. I'll wait.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Geeto67

[BStowers023]

no, but you really don't go out of your way to be informed on things and you pick some awful positions to back.

 

I disagree

 

so you see the other side as weaker? It's the tiny chihuahua? There's no other way to see it?

 

Yes. They couldn't rally enough to beat Donald Trump. Donald fucking Trump.

 

 

The Problem is division and antagonism. You are one of many who add to the division and don't work toward reconciliation. It is the common item (and probably the only) you share with those who are perpetrating violence. You claim you are doing this because you are trolling and it's fun and what not, but you really believe what you say. so yes, you are adding to the problem, and you know you are adding to the problem, and you do it anyway because you are mad that people don't see things your way and that's it.

 

As are you.

 

 

Well...maybe he doesn't. Show me one thing the president is in control of that was empirically and objectively good that Trump is responsible for. I'll wait.

 

Literally anything I say, you'll tell me that the President doesn't have control over. That's how you argue.

[zeitgeist57]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-29/republicans-slam-trump-tweets-attacking-female-tv-host-s-looks

 

Keep it classy, Trump.

[RedRocket1647545505]

I wish he'd get the F off Twitter. For God's sake, shut up already. You had a win this week with the CNN fiasco, but then you completely over-shadow it with crap like this.

[BStowers023]

I wish he'd get the F off Twitter. For God's sake, shut up already. You had a win this week with the CNN fiasco, but then you completely over-shadow it with crap like this.

 

Agreed

[Geeto67]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-29/republicans-slam-trump-tweets-attacking-female-tv-host-s-looks

 

Keep it classy, Trump.

 

This is minor compared to some of his other twitter posts prior to being president, my favorite exposure of him as a sub par human being is this one regarding Arianna Huffington from 2012 (my second favorite is the one about Megyn Kelly from Jan 2016):

 

 

@ariannahuff is unattractive both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man- he made a good decision.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 28, 2012

 

Directed at those who voted for trump and not you specifically clay: You knew this was what you were signing up for when you voted for him. You were willing to overlook this pattern of misogynistic behavior because why? you didn't want more of the same career politicians? I don't buy "corrupt" because DT is turning out to be more corrupt than anybody in the history of the role...so really is this what you wanted more than literally anything else? I have to imagine there is a ton of buyer's remorse in the trump vote.

 

At the end of the day twitter is a distraction from the fact that he is a shitty advocate of the people of this country. He has no public policy experience, his people have no public policy experience, and it shows by the continuous raging dumpster fire that is the current legislative environment. The Republicans own congress at this moment and they aren't able to bowl everything over because he is crippling them. Personally I don't mind because I like it when there is bi-partisan collaboration and compromise and anything that causes that is a positive in my book - even if it is caused by an incompetent sexist creep, but the current combative environment isn't good for America on the whole.

 

 

I wish he'd get the F off Twitter. For God's sake, shut up already. You had a win this week with the CNN fiasco, but then you completely over-shadow it with crap like this.

 

I used to feel that way, but honestly I want him on it more now...why?

 

It hurts him, but that's just schadenfreude. Politically it hurts Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Reince Prebius, and those extreme republicans who are enabling this garbage. It is driving the moderate Republicans toward the democrats and lifting the real republican extremists right to the top where they become visible. Even John McCain is being hurt by this because he is hedging and compromised his once great reputation for integrity.

 

MY wish and hope is that his tweets cause the people to vote those enablers out of office and clear the far right extremists and party loyalists from the republican party so it can go back to being a functioning government and a party that actually advocates for all but a small niche group of Americans.

 

I don't really like Marco Rubio but the party itself could benefit from more of him and less Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell. Even Mitt Romney seems sensible and moderate in this current environment.

[Mallard]

This is minor compared to some of his other twitter posts prior to being president, my favorite exposure of him as a sub par human being is this one regarding Arianna Huffington from 2012 (my second favorite is the one about Megyn Kelly from Jan 2016):

 

 

 

Directed at those who voted for trump and not you specifically clay: You knew this was what you were signing up for when you voted for him. You were willing to overlook this pattern of misogynistic behavior because why? you didn't want more of the same career politicians? I don't buy "corrupt" because DT is turning out to be more corrupt than anybody in the history of the role...so really is this what you wanted more than literally anything else? I have to imagine there is a ton of buyer's remorse in the trump vote.

 

At the end of the day twitter is a distraction from the fact that he is a shitty advocate of the people of this country. He has no public policy experience, his people have no public policy experience, and it shows by the continuous raging dumpster fire that is the current legislative environment. The Republicans own congress at this moment and they aren't able to bowl everything over because he is crippling them. Personally I don't mind because I like it when there is bi-partisan collaboration and compromise and anything that causes that is a positive in my book - even if it is caused by an incompetent sexist creep, but the current combative environment isn't good for America on the whole.

 

 

 

 

I used to feel that way, but honestly I want him on it more now...why?

 

It hurts him, but that's just schadenfreude. Politically it hurts Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Reince Prebius, and those extreme republicans who are enabling this garbage. It is driving the moderate Republicans toward the democrats and lifting the real republican extremists right to the top where they become visible. Even John McCain is being hurt by this because he is hedging and compromised his once great reputation for integrity.

 

MY wish and hope is that his tweets cause the people to vote those enablers out of office and clear the far right extremists and party loyalists from the republican party so it can go back to being a functioning government and a party that actually advocates for all but a small niche group of Americans.

This is also nothing compared to his ogling of the Irish journalist yesterday

 

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[BStowers023]

It hurts him, but that's just schadenfreude. Politically it hurts Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Reince Prebius, and those extreme republicans who are enabling this garbage. It is driving the moderate Republicans toward the democrats and lifting the real republican extremists right to the top where they become visible. Even John McCain is being hurt by this because he is hedging and compromised his once great reputation for integrity.

 

MY wish and hope is that his tweets cause the people to vote those enablers out of office and clear the far right extremists and party loyalists from the republican party so it can go back to being a functioning government and a party that actually advocates for all but a small niche group of Americans.

 

I don't really like Marco Rubio but the party itself could benefit from more of him and less Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell. Even Mitt Romney seems sensible and moderate in this current environment.

 

 

The left extremists like Bernie and Jill Stein can be gone as well. People like Bernie Sanders are a serious threat to this country.

 

I will acknowledge, far right extremists aren't good for the country either.

[Geeto67]

The left extremists like Bernie and Jill Stein can be gone as well. People like Bernie Sanders are a serious threat to this country.

 

Remind me again what political office Jill Stein currently holds? none? yeah I think that counts as already gone. You seem to be confused about what "gone" means. She can run all she wants if she will never get elected she isn't a factor for this discussion because she wields no political power.

 

As for Bernie...How extreme do you think he is?

 

I know you conservatives get all "frothy" at the mere mention of "socalisim" (despite the fact the good majority don't understand socialism or how they participate in it every day), but you know there is actually a difference between "socalism" and "social democracy" and for the most part Bernie is a Social Democrat.

 

Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy... Social democracy thus aims to create the conditions for capitalism to lead to greater democratic, egalitarian and solidaristic outcomes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

 

not exactly the same thing as workers own the means of production socialism.

 

So let's talk about Republican "Extremism" and how it differs from Liberal extremism. There is one particular area where they are night and day different and that is bi-partisan collaboration. Bernie was head of the Veteran Affairs Committee 2013-2014 and oversaw the reform following the health admin scandal which he worked on closely with John McCain. This is one example of his willingness and bi-partisan collaboration, there are other smaller ones but this is the biggest (he's a junior senator so there isn't a long record). Does he vote democrat position on the majority of items, sure but that doesn't make him more extreme than any other democrat.

 

Let's put this up against Mitch McConnell, who yesterday said, either Republicans come together, or he would have to work with Democrats to shore up the deteriorating health law. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/us/politics/as-affordable-care-act-repeal-teeters-prospects-for-bipartisanship-build.html

 

He didn't mean that as a statement of fact - it was a threat to the moderate republicans to get in line. He was the leader of the charge of obstructionism under the Obama administration and has set a record for frustrating the effectiveness of congress:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/mitch-mcconnell-record-senate-213921

 

So on one hand we have a highly visible liberal, who if you are moderate isn't that far out there but if you are a far right conservative is only slightly less socialist than jesus (because he is reasonably pro-second amendment), who participates in bi-partisan collaboration and works to make sure congress is effective and at least benefits americans through compromise; and on the other we have an obstructionist republican whose biggest legacy is going to be that he managed to make congress function worse than it ever has before.

 

see how they are different?

 

Sure Bernie is screamingly liberal, but he's not that effective and he works with Conservatives to find middle ground. This Helps Americans. Mitch McConnell is screamingly Republican (not conservative - party first republican) and he works to make sure no middle ground is found and that congress is not effective unless he gets his uncompromised way. Which do you think is better for America? I'll give you a hint, it isn't the uncompromising douchebag.

[BStowers023]

So...

Far right = bad

Far left = not that bad

 

 

Got it. No way you're being biased so I'll just take your word for it

[SpaceGhost]

 

 

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[Furloaf]

Sanders definitely isn't zeroed on the y-axis

[BStowers023]

Lmao who made that graph? Kerry?:lolguy:

[SpaceGhost]

1st link on a google search....

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

 

I'm sure everyone in this thread has their own better algorithms to determine this.