More 2004 cbr600rr fuel issues

[mattm]

For those of you that remember the saga of this bike. Bought it in April with 5000 miles on it. Clean title, never been down etc, Leo Vince Slip-on etc. Had some hesitation/surging issues and discovered that there was rust in the tank. Bought a used tank and pump on ebay and installed today. Also replaced the air filter with an OEM one (wasn't needed) and new plugs as well. The were fouled but otherwise looked like they were burning fine. Perhaps a little rich.

Installed new tank and pump and put the bike back together. Idles better and the missing is pretty much gone. However, now it won't rev to redline or sometime even above 10k at full throttle. If I let off the gas a little it will rev higher but then starts missing again.

I suspect the tank is from a california bike. That wouldn't cause any issues would it?

Sounds to me like the fuel pump that is in it is faulty. My old pump is pretty rusty so I am not sure I want to install it in the clean tank.

Any other ideas? I am about to give up on this thing and I hate to take it to the dealer.

[rusty 996]

wbs give this guys call they do magic.614 734 7233 or 614 588 3091 paul.

[ReconRat]

I looked it up. The fuel pump is the same for the 49-states and the California model, and fits both 2003 and 2004.

I always check to see if it's a California model. They do sell them here in Ohio.

49-states model: CBR600RR A (04) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# JH2PC370-4M100001 TO JH2PC370-4M199999

California model: CBR600RR AC (04) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# JH2PC371-4M100001 TO JH2PC371-4M199999

part numbers:

2003-2004 CBR600RR fuel pump:

SKU: 16700-MEE-013

PUMP ASSY., FUEL (Honda Code 7948649)

High Speed trouble shooting from the 2004 CBR600RR service manual:

Checking timing is easy, do that.

Since you've just replaced the fuel pump, I'd check the fuel pump.

Your fuel pump should have 50psi, and deliver 6.4 US ounce of fuel in 10 seconds at 12v. (battery only, not running.)

If those are ok, it's check/clean the fuel strainer (check for pinched fuel lines also), or move on to another item on the list.

Standard troubleshooting for bad high speed performance:

Weak/bad spark (timing also) or inadequate fuel flow.

Best guess: there might be debris in the fuel injector bodies. They might have to be cleaned. If possible, let it misfire while moving, shut the engine off, pull over, take the plugs out and see which ones are lean or not.

Wet = ignition problem

Dry(toasty white lean thing) = fuel problem

only one or two dry, clean those injectors. But really, I'd clean them all. If in doubt, take them off and drop them off somewhere to be cleaned for you. It's common to not get them cleaned out on the first try in the backyard.

Edited May 16, 2009 by ReconRat

[mattm]

Thanks. The new plugs I just put in are dry and look good. The color is good and everything looks correct right now.

Took the tank off again and all the lines were clear, no pinching etc. I am going to take the pump out and check the tank for any debris and try to clean the filter. Then I will put it back in and try it one more time before I call the place that sold me the tank and pump and try to get a replacement pump.

Thanks

[ReconRat]

That's good about the plugs, but to read the plugs for the problem, it has to be done at the RPM where the problem is. That's difficult to do, but is why I said ride it at the high problem RPM and shut the engine off to read them.

And still check the timing, and other electrical stuff, you never know. High rpm problems are most often electrical, not fuel.

edit: this is hard to describe, but in general, a high rpm fuel problem feels and sounds like it is bogging down, sort of moaning, like the fuel was shut off. A high rpm electrical problem, usually will crackle, stutter, or otherwise cut-out. Sometimes you can see the headlight dim at the same time, that would be a low stator output or electrical problem.

Edited May 16, 2009 by ReconRat

[mattm]

With the new tank/pump it feels like it is bogging above 9k. This is a new issue since installing the tank/pump. The missing and hesitation seem to be gone but now it bogs badly at high rpm at full throttle. If I back off the throttle a little to around 80% it shoots up the rev range and then starts bogging again at 14k.

Seems like it isn't getting enough fuel at that rev range. Below 9k it runs great even at full throttle.

Getting a 2nd pump right now to test the theory that the pump is bad. 600rr.net seems to have loads of people with the issue and it turned out to be the pump. Plus, since this is new behavior since installing the tank/pump I thought the lines might be pinched but they aren't. Basically I am targeting that which was most recently changed.

Thanks

[ReconRat]

Good idea. For me, it's almost always the last thing I worked on. I know it isn't easy to check the flow rate and pressure, but maybe it won't do that with the old pump or another pump installed. That's a clue.

[mattm]

Well that pump replacement didn't fix it. May need to have someone else ride the thing. Goes through 10k rpm ok now but still hangs at like 12k rpm at full throttle. Let off the throttle slightly and it will rev freely. Time to check some more stuff.

Any other ideas or suggestions for a decent mechanic to fix this would be great.

No MIL. No indication that there is a problem other than using full throttle above 10k rpm. Dumped some seafoam in the tank and we will see ho that goes. Battery replaced with brand new yuasa around 1 month ago. Going out of town for business next week so looks like I won't have it figured out by memorial day.

One more thing to add. It was overfilled with oil by about 1/2 a quart. That led me to replace the air filter as a precaution and clean out the airbox. Not much oil in the airbox and the filter still looked good, but I replaced it anyway.

Thanks

Edited May 16, 2009 by mattm

[mattm]

UPDATE. Perhaps the bike is running rich. I let the bike idle in the garage and reved it a few times. I saw some smoke out of the exhaust when I let off the throttle. The Leo Vince slip on is a pretty black on the end of the pipe and the wife said she smelled gas in the garage from my reving experiment. The bike still stumbles above 10k at full throttle but takes off if at 95% throttle. I get at least 160 miles on a tank and am averaging 40 mpg so it can't be running that rich. Alo, there is a full bottle of seafoam in the tank right now and that may be contributing to the smoking.

I bought it used and was told that the only non-appearance mod was the Leo Vince slip on. This is my first modern sportbike so I don't know whether it has a full exhaust or just the slip on and maybe that is causing it to run a little rich and bog at the top end? Maybe it is the regulator/rectifier?

Any ideas.

Thanks

Edited May 17, 2009 by mattm

[MattKatz]

Look at the header...If there are two crossover tubes between the pipes....Its a stocker.

If its an aftermarket Full exhaust...it will not hav those and the pipes will be quite round and it will be pretty obvious.

You can take a pic and post it if you want and I will tell you.

Your problem sounds very interesting.....Might have to think differently on this one...How does the bike run at cruise?

Have you ever had the airbox off?

Are all EIGHT of your injectors hooked up?

Yes..this bike has eight if you didnt know.

Just a few things that pop into my head.

[mattm]

Thanks for the tip. Crossover tubes there.

Bike cruises great no issues there. Only problem now is bogging on full throttle above 10k rpm. Less than full throttle the bike feels great. I might have to have someone else look at it and probably have someone else ride it to compare it to other 600rrs.

Doesn't appear to be using any oil and the coolant is a little above the low line and looks very clean. No milkshake oil etc. The seafoam might be causing the smoke so that may offer no clue but the gas smell is there if I am revving the bike a little at a stop.

When I replaced the tank it appears as though all injectors are connected.

I am stumped. Any suggestions on a place other than the dealer to take it if I can't get this figured out?

[MattKatz]

Not sure....and if it bogs at all..its surely not right..I have two 600RR's here...an 04 and an 06 and both reve freely to redline sitting and under load...so yours should as well.

and all this thing has is the slip on?

Are your factory Velocity stacks in place in the airbox?

Is it an OEM or aftermarket filter?

[mattm]

Factory velocity stacks in place and the OEM fllter is in place. Not sure what the deal is....

[mattm]

Found a great deal on a airbox, throttle body and injectors for the 2004. Cheaper than cleaning all injectors. The complete kit will bolt on a remove all traces of rust.

The bike is inconsistent now. Sometime it misses and sometimes it doesn't. Stator appears to be good as the battery is still fine. Still seems to get 40 mpg roughly so not running too rich. Actually seems to run better when it is warming up, meaning richer than once it is fully up to temp. All factors point towards leaning out on the top end. When colder it runs further up the rev range to 14k. When fully warmed up it starts missing at 12k.

Going to take that killer deal on the airbox, injectors, rails and throttle body and complete the replacement of the fuel systems after all that rust. Hope that takes care of it. Only thing left is map sensor and Temp sensor. I know I should do some more testing but the price for all was significantly less than just the injector cleaning procedure and the replacement should be fairly easy. I already know that the map sensor is good after pinching off the vacuum line so that really only leaves the temp sensor as the ECU indicated a map sensor fault immediately after disconnecting the map sensor.

Edited May 23, 2009 by mattm

[mattm]

Put the bike up on stands to change out the throttle body, fuel rail and injectors and the sight glass indicated that the bike was overfilled with oil again. Drained some oil out and the oil smelled like gas. Could be a stuck injector from all the rust running through it over the last couple years, or it could be from my commute downtown and the low rpm riding. Anybody have any experience with this and how prevalent is it?

I try to ride to work every day that it is nice out and do end up in a lot of stop and go riding. Sounds to me like a stuck injector because for the oil to go from between the lines in the sight glass to completely full in the sight glass in a few weeks would mean it is dumping a lot of gas.

Also, the bike has a leo vince slip-on and no power commander. That wouldn't cause this issue would it?

Bike still falls on its face at 10-12k rpm. New injectors, throttle body and map sensor (used) going on tomorrow and now it looks like an oil change as well.

I replaced the tank with a used tank from a California bike. That wouldn't cause an issue would it?

If this doesn't fix it is anybody willing to help diagnose it for free beer, pizza, liquor, hookers and blow?

Edited May 30, 2009 by mattm

[dozi]

with all of the changes you made - did you ever get to the bottom of this issue ?

[joshuppal]

Hey mattm what did you end up doing??

I'm having the same issue but i'm fairly sure mine is from fuel blockage from the filter in the pump.

I removed my pump and cleaned out the filter, it fixed the problem for a bit but it happened again after a while.

 

My problem is intermittent though.

[Bad324]

He ran obAmas shit through it and it magically ran like new and added 159 extra horsepower

But seriously did you check your lines? My 05 had gunked up lines