Granny gets tased...

[Likwid]

I am not saying we should not comply with the officer(s). I'm saying I am in complete contradiction to your statement about "having to listen to the police."

If a cop comes to my house' date=' knocks on the door and says he wants to come in he's met with a polite, yet very stern, "I don't fucking think so. Do you have a warrant?" Also, if an officer tells me he wants to search my car I tell him, "Um..GTFO! with that shit!"

Maybe the confusion was your statement was a generalization of traffic stops and not of other police involvement.[/quote']

That's definitely true! And I say the same thing, "where's the warrant?" But if a cop decides he has reasonable cause he can bust in without a warrant? I hate to go back to traffic stops, but if a cop says "can I search your car" and you say no, that "no" is reasonable cause (I disagree with this but a couple buddies who are sheriff's deputies told me this).

I think I see what you're saying though, difference from complying and listening. I agree with you, don't always have to listen, but do have to comply.... right?

[fusion]

That's definitely true! And I say the same thing, "where's the warrant?" But if a cop decides he has reasonable cause he can bust in without a warrant? I hate to go back to traffic stops, but if a cop says "can I search your car" and you say no, that "no" is reasonable cause (I disagree with this but a couple buddies who are sheriff's deputies told me this).

I think I see what you're saying though, difference from complying and listening. I agree with you, don't always have to listen, but do have to comply.... right?

Not to sidetrack this, but ummm no. I think there was just a case where the court decided that saying "no" to "can I search your car?" is not reasonable cause.

I was also reading about a case that centered around drug dogs around your vehicle being unreasonable search as well. Can't remember how that one turned out if it's even done.

[fusion]

[KruelHouse]

WOW! Lot's of good points made in this thread!

Sorry for the long post.

As far as (politely) refusing to allow a cop to search your house/car/pockets, etc. without a warrant is concerned. This cannot serve as "reasonable cause"... If that were the case, personal rights would go out of the window.

Use of Taser on the "blue-hair": After reviewing the tape, I'm not convinced that it was necessary. Grandma got a lil perturbed after he gently "shoved" her back away from the busy street. This (in my opinion) escalated the situation. Some (the police chief) state that he pushed her to protect her from the busy street... Personally, rather than push her I would have just stood in front of her and blocked her (just as I would with a child or a dog), I mean she's NOT going to move me.

Someone mentioned using the same force on Grandma that you would on a 16yr-old football player: I tastefully disagree with this school of thought. One of the things that makes us who we are is that we are (in many shapes, sizes, levels of intelligence, etc.) DIFFERENT. That being established, one method of diffusing a situation CANNOT be expected to work on everyone. It is in these situations where we are challenged to QUICKLY use our brains and execute the optimal methods of conflict resolution. For if we're just going to do the same thing across the board (no matter the situation), then we could have just deployed a robot to tase everyone who resists arrest (over-simplified analogy I'll admit).

Possible courses of action:

1. Block her from street without physically putting your hands on her, while talking her down.

2. Call for backup. I've been pulled over before, only to have the arresting officer accompanied by 2 more squad cars, AND a local sheriff.

3. Just let her drive off. I mean, you have her license plate# by now, and I can't remember if he got her license and reg. or not. Either way, she drives off, you call it in, and now you and a partner make the arrest 2 miles up the road (unless her belligerent-azz crashes into someone along the way).

Although her attitude would have made me wanna slap the tapioca out of her Depends-wearin' azz!

[12oclocker]

I would have too, its better than getting physical with her! You do that you may break something then she could claim excessive force. The officer did the right thing.

You are f'king wrong. how about I do that to your grandma, and we'll talk again! You must be crazy!

I can easily get a 72 year old woman into the back of a cruiser without hurting her, and against her will, and if you are unable to do this, you should not be a f'king cop!

Cops are hired to SERVE AND PROTECT the people, not to Abuse and Neglect them.

Tazering her is MUCH MUCH WORSE than man handling her into a car!! she'll possibly break her spine or both hips falling backwards after getting tazered, she could even die of a heart attack, she is f'king 72 years old, and her heart is very weak compared to a 22 year old person!

1) That tazer could have KILLED HER, she is old and her heart is weak, I watched a old man DIE on tv that was tazered in an airport.

2) That old lady was not doing anything that she deserved to be tortured like that, or possibly die for.

3) You were hired to protect that old lady, even if its against her own bad judgment, instead you choose to put her life in danger, and possibly kill her!

4) Tazering her is MUCH MUCH WORSE than man handling her into a car!! she'll possibly break her spine or both hips falling backwards after getting tazered!

5) Tazers were not designed for 72 year old women, I am sick of cops using them as a bully tool, and that's exactly what this video displayed!

Edited June 11, 2009 by 12oclocker

[knicks360]

[fusion]

She was being placed under arrest for refusing to sign the ticket which is the law there I believe.

[Likwid]

lots of good information. Helpful to know how to deal.

Someone mentioned using the same force on Grandma that you would on a 16yr-old football player: I tastefully disagree with this school of thought. One of the things that makes us who we are is that we are (in many shapes, sizes, levels of intelligence, etc.) DIFFERENT. That being established, one method of diffusing a situation CANNOT be expected to work on everyone. It is in these situations where we are challenged to QUICKLY use our brains and execute the optimal methods of conflict resolution. For if we're just going to do the same thing across the board (no matter the situation), then we could have just deployed a robot to tase everyone who resists arrest (over-simplified analogy I'll admit).

The only reason I have an issue there is because of the whole "equal treatment" and all that bullshit. If you leave it on some idiot to make a judgement call then you end up with a middle-age middle eastern getting shot reaching into his jacket for a passport, or a cop getting shot because it was a 72 year old white woman reaching into her purse for a gun....

I know it's an extreme.... but whatever... I'd rather just comply and do my best to not have to go to court for it.

[NightRider]

NOT listening to a cop isn't an option, it goes back to other conversation in the trashed thread.

If a cop says to do something and you don't, you're going to get fucked, here's my example, but maybe you can shed some light on a better way. Keep in mind it's just an example, wasn't saying this is the way it happens

Cop pulls you over for speeding.

Cop says he got you doing 80 in a 65

Cop wants to arrest you for wreckless op

You apologize, act polite, get handcuffed go to station

Cop marks it as wreckless op you get released and take care of business

Judge takes cops word and you get a wreckless op

Now, assuming you DON'T listen to the cop

Cop pulls you over for speeding.

Cop says he got you doing 80 in a 65

Cop wants to arrest you for wreckless op

You say no way, and make your point by explaining the situation

Cop isn't changing his mind and IS going to handcuff you

You fight it and say he's not listening

Cop tasers you and handcuffs you anyways

Cop marks it as wreckless op and resisting arrest you get held

Judge takes cops word and you get a wreckless op and resisting arrest.

I just don't see a win situation in there if you DON'T listen to a cop.... but seriously, if there is a way, or method, PLEASE tell me because I'd definitely appreciate knowing.

When does a cop arrest you for wreckless op? Maybe when you crash into something, or...maybe kill someone? I got a fucking wreckless op for doing donuts in a parking lot and running a red light, about 3 am in the morning. Yeah....wreckless op. Definitely not smart, but Wtf hasn't done donuts at on time or another? I understand the red light thing, but wreckless op? Come on. The cop was a dick from begining to end, even though i was polite from begining to end. This dick had the audacity to ask if my car...was paid for by my dad!

I also got arrested for drinking one beer. I was drunk by association.

However, i did have a cop let me go scott free with these issues. No title, or regristration, wrong plates (to a 92 camaro) speeding ( 85 in a 35-55, just depends on where he saw) No seat belt (legal, was a 63) and straight pipes. It was about to be my car, but dear old brother forgot to mention the plates and regristration bs.

Good times!

[KruelHouse]

I see the point that you're making, however I still do not think that ad hoc tasing is the answer. In your scenario, it seems evident that "profiling" may play a role in the treatment of said characters. The (presumed "guilty) Middle Eastern gentleman gets shot whilst reaching for a passport, while the 72yr old lady shoots the unsuspecting cop with the Desert Eagle that she's packing in her Coach Bag.

The point that I was trying to make in the above post (and I stand firm on it), is that situations which require any type of "force" should be handled on a case-by-case basis. I still don't think that there is a solution that can be successfully deployed across the spectrum. I'm not saying that he shouldn't view Grandma as a potential threat, for he has a right/obligation to protect himself; and most officers only have a split-second to respond/react. Though it's easy for me to sit here and play Monday Morning QB, I'm just not convinced that lighting her up like TimesSquare was the best option.

[KruelHouse]

I'd rather just comply and do my best to not have to go to court for it.

QFT! Try to avoid court at all costs (within reason that is...)

[John]

Remember folks.. cops aren't your friends.

cops are your friends in the "rich" part of town.