OSU Shooting this morning. Everyone OK?

[Likwid]

When seconds count... cops are just minutes away...

They're claiming a 2:01 response time to the 911 call

Just sharing the time A lot can happen in 2 minutes... and I think it's safe to assume the officers responding didn't just get out of their car and go running inside the moment they arrived.

[jbot]

so did the shooter get his gun(s) legally or illegally?

[Likwid]

so did the shooter get his gun(s) legally or illegally?

A quick search of Franklin court records doesn't show any felonies for Mr. Brown... but I have no idea what counties are nearby to check those.

[SJC1000rr]

Just sharing the time A lot can happen in 2 minutes... and I think it's safe to assume the officers responding didn't just get out of their car and go running inside the moment they arrived.

As I know you wouldn't just make another unsupported assumption, I'm sure you were there to watch what happened before posting about what officers did.

Did a lot happen in 2 minutes....sure did. But call around and get the average response time for your local police agency's and see what they tell you. A lot happened in about 20 seconds, doesn't mean that anyone could have stopped it. Especially when there were only really about 4? people in the room and the suspect had two guns. Doesn't take long with the advantage of suprize to shoot a lot of people before anyone could react.

Was I there when it happened...No. I was there working with the officers that did respond, worked on the report and guarded the crime scene for 8.5 hours. I saw the aftermath and the run down of how it happened and watched the clean up of the blood and brains.

Your just going off skewed information from surfing the net and trying to gather what the media will provide you...after they twist it into something everyone will watch. Cause I am pretty sure I didn't see you there today.

And my heart goes out to the family of the fallen. Many of us knew him and he was a great guy who's life came to an end due to an idiot that couldn't do his job well enough and decided to take it out on the boss over an evaluation.

And this will be my last post on the thread, as I'm sure your expertise in everything will be able to fill everyone else in on how to save themselves and not do anything wrong.

Edited March 10, 2010 by SJC1000rr

[timotheus]

equipped

you're

thank you so very much

[timotheus]

As I know you wouldn't just make another unsupported assumption, I'm sure you were there to watch what happened before posting about what officers did.

Did a lot happen in 2 minutes....sure did. But call around and get the average response time for your local police agency's and see what they tell you. A lot happened in about 20 seconds, doesn't mean that anyone could have stopped it. Especially when there were only really about 4? people in the room and the suspect had two guns. Doesn't take long with the advantage of suprize to shoot a lot of people before anyone could react.

Was I there when it happened...No. I was there working with the officers that did respond, worked on the report and guarded the crime scene for 8.5 hours. I saw the aftermath and the run down of how it happened and watched the clean up of the blood and brains.

Your just going off skewed information from surfing the net and trying to gather what the media will provide you...after they twist it into something everyone will watch. Cause I am pretty sure I didn't see you there today.

And my heart goes out to the family of the fallen. Many of us knew him and he was a great guy who's life came to an end due to an idiot that couldn't do his job well enough and decided to take it out on the boss over an evaluation.

And this will be my last post on the thread, as I'm sure your expertise in everything will be able to fill everyone else in on how to save themselves and not do anything wrong.

i thought you said your last post would be your last post

[ReconRat]

same day, different place

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2010/03/09/story-whitehall-police-shooting-norton-field-park.html?sid=102

Suicidal guy went and sat in a little park with his shotgun.

There are a lot of despondent people lately. The stories keep showing up.

[blackgsxr1000]

This is why I wish I owned a gun, maybe someday when I don't waste all my money on my motorcyle, women and Alcohol.

[Likwid]

lol at how butthurt Mr Officer is, I've never seen a cop get so cought up in what THEY think that they ignore everyone else... oh wait

IP is right, the whole argument is based off saying "it wouldn't have mattered so it's moot"... that's idiotic, people deserve a chance.

[Zach]

How many of them were CHL holders? I don't remember.

Punching a couple holes in a piece of paper and sitting through a couple hours of lecture doesn't prepare you to face an attacking gunman.

I've never said anything supporting the banning of guns. I simply disagree with those that think a CHL makes you a villain-stopping superhero.

Hell, watch a few episodes of cops- there are numerous police officers who are trained to handle a gunfight that are unable to hit their attacker.

[timotheus]

what about the hundreds (probably thousands) of times armed citizens stopped crimes ? too bad they arent covered by the media like this

[timotheus]

same day, different place

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2010/03/09/story-whitehall-police-shooting-norton-field-park.html?sid=102

Suicidal guy went and sat in a little park with his shotgun.

There are a lot of despondent people lately. The stories keep showing up.

its the economy stupid !!! - bill clinton

[Zach]

what about the hundreds (probably thousands) of times armed citizens stopped crimes ? too bad they arent covered by the media like this

I think guns have a place in our society and are a good thing to have around. I support CHL and gun education over bannings. I know that concealed weapons do protect people and stop criminals. I also believe that unless someone is trained to handle a gunfight, having that weapon on their person is of little effect.

Many people on this forum own guns and shoot them often. But how many of them train in a high-intensity high-stress environment? Most people never experience or practice shooting a gun while on an adrenaline rush or in a hurry. Punching holes in paper is a lot easier when you're standing at a gun range with no pressure.

[timotheus]

I think guns have a place in our society and are a good thing to have around. I support CHL and gun education over bannings. I know that concealed weapons do protect people and stop criminals. I also believe that unless someone is trained to handle a gunfight, having that weapon on their person is of little effect.

Many people on this forum own guns and shoot them often. But how many of them train in a high-intensity high-stress environment? Most people never experience or practice shooting a gun while on an adrenaline rush or in a hurry. Punching holes in paper is a lot easier when you're standing at a gun range with no pressure.

no one knows how they will react in a situation like that until it actually happens....usually its the least likely person who ends up being the hero

[Zach]

no one knows how they will react in a situation like that until it actually happens....

That may be true for an untrained individual. Think a marine knows how to react when fired upon? A SWAT officer?

To be able to properly dispatch a shooter with confidence and without injuring innocent bystanders, you need to train for situations like that.

[max power]

I love cops and am glad they are here' date=' but I don't delude myself into thinking I'm safer because of them. Honestly, I'd feel safer if more citizens would start carrying and would rely less on the local police department for their protection.[/quote']

[Paddy O Furniture]

I think guns have a place in our society and are a good thing to have around. I support CHL and gun education over bannings. I know that concealed weapons do protect people and stop criminals. I also believe that unless someone is trained to handle a gunfight, having that weapon on their person is of little effect.

Many people on this forum own guns and shoot them often. But how many of them train in a high-intensity high-stress environment? Most people never experience or practice shooting a gun while on an adrenaline rush or in a hurry. Punching holes in paper is a lot easier when you're standing at a gun range with no pressure.

Gunfights are only one type of threat. What about other types of disparity of force? I have a buddy who was knocked off his bike by 5 men and was beaten, I think a firearm would have helped him in his situation. What about the woman who is being followed by a man in a parking garage? A man with a knife will respect a firearm pointed in his direction.

Will carrying a firearm guarantee a positive outcome for every threat, no, but it does level the field.

With regard to training to deal with the physiological aspects of a defensive situation, you are correct, not many CHL holders have that experience. Although, I have read many accounts where people with little firearm experience have neutralized a threat who is carrying a firearm, many accounts are elderly men and women; the fact is most "bad guys" probably have less experience than most CHL holders. I know that is a general sweeping statement, but that is why the Internet was created, right? =)

[Zach]

I understand what you are saying' date=' but just because someone is not a police officer doesn't mean they can't handle a weapon. Likewise, just because someone is a police officer doesn't mean the can handle a weapon. Cops are just average people with extraordinary jobs. A lot of departments don't have the kind of training you think they have. I love cops and am glad they are here, but I don't delude myself into thinking I'm safer because of them. Honestly, I'd feel safer if more citizens would start carrying and would rely less on the local police department for their protection.[/quote']

Notice I didn't say 'beat officer'? I've also referenced episodes of COPS where patrolmen can't hold their own in a shootout. I have no grand expectation of police officers' shooting prowess. I also know officers that train above and beyond their required training to better prepare themselves for these situations.

I make no inference that a private citizen cannot have the skills to handle this situation. I am merely stating that CHL certification alone is not a guarantee that one will be able to handle this type of situation. My argument is against those that think a CCW is the end-all-be-all solution to violent crime.

[Zach]

Gunfights are only one type of threat. What about other types of disparity of force? I have a buddy who was knocked off his bike by 5 men and was beaten, I think a firearm would have helped him in his situation. What about the woman who is being followed by a man in a parking garage? A man with a knife will respect a firearm pointed in his direction.

Like I've said, guns have a place.

I'd like to see a guy that's been jumped by 5 dudes try to pull a gun though...

[timotheus]

That may be true for an untrained individual. Think a marine knows how to react when fired upon? A SWAT officer?

To be able to properly dispatch a shooter with confidence and without injuring innocent bystanders, you need to train for situations like that.

many WELL TRAINED soldiers have gone into battle not knowing how they would react when the bullets were flying, most of them react well and rely on thier training but some do not, the same thing applies to everyone. training is good but it is no guarantee

[Paddy O Furniture]

I'd like to see a guy that's been jumped by 5 dudes try to pull a gun though...

In this situation he was knocked off his bike and slid about 30 feet. He was able to get up and as he got up the attackers chased him; he did have time to draw, but wasn't carrying because his place of employment didn't allow it.

[Zach]

See' date=' here's where we disagree. I think CCW is a violation of my 2nd Amendment right.[/quote']

Huh? I said I don't think CCW is the only solution to violent crime. I said nothing about taking your guns.

many WELL TRAINED soldiers have gone into battle not knowing how they would react when the bullets were flying, most of them react well and rely on thier training but some do not, the same thing applies to everyone. training is good but it is no guarantee

I was gonna respond, but IP did a better job. See below.

In a deadly force encounter' date=' and the physiological effects it will put your body through, training is the ONLY thing that will save your ass. Once your heart rate starts climbing and you begin to lose hearing, your vision starts to tunnel and you lose finger dexterity you'll find training is the only thing you can rely on.

Most CCW courses don't cover the adverse effects that a DFE will produce. Read up on it. It's pretty amazing, really.[/quote']

[Zach]

In this situation he was knocked off his bike and slid about 30 feet. He was able to get up and as he got up the attackers chased him; he did have time to draw, but wasn't carrying because his place of employment didn't allow it.

Ah, yeah. Coulda used the boom stick there.

[jagr]

You can't carry on campus???

I'm not gonna stop now.

[chevysoldier]

Punching a couple holes in a piece of paper and sitting through a couple hours of lecture doesn't prepare you to face an attacking gunman.

I've never said anything supporting the banning of guns. I simply disagree with those that think a CHL makes you a villain-stopping superhero.

Hell, watch a few episodes of cops- there are numerous police officers who are trained to handle a gunfight that are unable to hit their attacker.

Slow down, I was just curious as to how many where CHL holders. I would hope none because carrying a gun in a bar is illegal in Ohio.

what about the hundreds (probably thousands) of times armed citizens stopped crimes ? too bad they arent covered by the media like this

True story.

See' date=' here's where we disagree. I think CCW is a violation of my 2nd Amendment right.[/quote']

I'm not ready to make a decision on that yet. I do believe not allowing open carry is a violation of my 2A. I need to think, research more on it.

Huh? I said I don't think CCW is the only solution to violent crime. I said nothing about taking your guns.

CCW isn't the answer, guns are.