Help! Advice needed for one of my newbies.

[Aerik]

Okay, so I've spent the last couple of months teaching my mom and my wife how to ride. They're both scheduled to take the Motorcycle Ohio course in August. Cari (the wife) has done really well, and is at the point where she's just getting more precise and competent with each ride.

Mom, on the other hand, has been much more difficult. Every little thing has been a process of repetition (we're still working on not doing 'Flintstone stops', for example). Then, a few weeks ago, she made a very wide right turn onto a road that was bending left, ran out of room, and bounced over a curb. No injuries, but it shook her up a bit.

Basically, we've identified three primary problems:

1) She has a tendency to let her brain get between her instincts and the bike. She'll be thinking (okay, clutch, shift, gas, Oh! Lean!, Did I do that right? etc) instead of actually just riding.

2) She's learned to handle road curves well, but has great difficulty with low-speed turning, such as pulling out from a stop sign. She always goes too wide.

3) She's always been somewhat nervous, but it's only become worse since the crash. Her riding posture is very rigid, she accelerates very slowly, and I think she may be self-correcting out of the necessary lean in slow corners.

I'm just looking for any advice or tips on how to try and help these problems from people who have taught others to ride.

Thanks all

[Disclaimer]

Your mom does not belong on a bike.

Some people 'get it' and some people don't. My girlfriend was like your mom. (nothing meant by that). She doesn't have the confidence, hand-eye coordination, and reflexes necessary to be competent on two wheels. It is NOT for the kind of people that are scatterbrained or lack focus.

It would be dangerous to her and others if you let her on two wheels. She gave it the ol' college try and just leave it at that. I'd focus on turning the wife into a great rider before she develops bad habits.

[hue jass]

^^ Some people just don't have the sense for it. You have to really want to ride.

[Aerik]

I agree that she may just not be up to it, but she said she wants to wait until after the BRC to make a final yes or no decision. I get my stubbornness from her, so I can't really force her to quit earlier than that once she's made up her mind.

Until then, we've been keeping her in her neighborhood and the school parking lot across the street-- I'm just trying to think of anything I might be doing wrong or have forgotten to tell her.

[AOW]

I agree with Isaac. Parent's aren't wired to accept direction from their children, and women are wired to ignore directions from men.

[RVTPilot]

Good points all around. My $.02, she's thinking too much and getting target fixated. She's looking at where she is afraid of or doesn't want to go, and is getting radar lock on the outside of the turn she's pulling into from a stop. Until she can get through the rudimentary permutations of riding and not thinking when she is out there, she's going to have these struggles. You know this, your Mrs. know this, and even she may, but until she's past that point, she's going to have a difficult time. Best of luck to her though. Glad to hear she's even interested.

[magley64]

let her rock the MSF course... they will be able to give her a more objective opinion on her riding.

Aside from that, just let her practice. If she really wants to do it, she'll start to get it the more she practices.

[Uncle Punk]

Good advice above but if she will not let this task go I would suggest getting her on a scooter. It will take the majority of tasks away from her and allow her to learn more about riding instead of bike controls. If she is nervous about making a mistake which only causes her to make mistakes that sensory overload will be alleviated with a scooter.

[Ms. J]

I just started riding this year, and finished the BRC last week. One thing that really helped me with leaning into curves was looking where I want the bike to go. They repeatedly told us in the class to point your nose where you want the bike to end up, and I was amazed at how much it made a difference. It wasn't natural at first, but the more I did it, the more I realized how effective it is.

I am sure she will learn a lot at the class, and at least she will already know what she wants to work on when she gets there. Good luck!

[magley64]

They repeatedly told us in the class to point your nose where you want the bike to end up, and I was amazed at how much it made a difference.

I HATE this type of advice....

Your bike does not care which way your nose is pointed. You can look left, right, even turn your head to look behind you, and turn the bike in any direction you want, during any of those actions. 99% of your steering "at speed" is done with the bars, steer left, you go right, steer right, you go left... nothing more, nothing less

[NinjaNick]

I think of it as more applying little pressure on the bar side of the direction you want to go. Want to go left, push the left side. Want to go right, push the right side of the handle bar. I never had to think about steering a bike though. It seems that when I got on one, I just thought I want to go left and it just happened. It's like my body understood what needed to be done. I caught on to motorcycling very easy and quickly. Now I have an Aunt that tried it last year and took the MSF course and realized that she didn't have what it took to ride a bike after she got out of the ER with broken wrists from slamming into a brick wall during the course. Glad she realized she is better off not riding though.

[Ms. J]

I HATE this type of advice....

Your bike does not care which way your nose is pointed. You can look left, right, even turn your head to look behind you, and turn the bike in any direction you want, during any of those actions. 99% of your steering "at speed" is done with the bars, steer left, you go right, steer right, you go left... nothing more, nothing less

I thought it was really strange advice too, but it really did help me. When I first started riding I did not look through the curve/turn, and I was looking too close in front of me. Someone on here told me to look where I wanted to go. It forced me to keep my head and eyes up, even at really slow speeds. I noticed that those that were struggling in the class were watching their front tire or a few feet in front of the bike. As a new rider, I found it very helpful.

[magley64]

I understand it helps, but I think it also leads to more crashes due to target fixation.

Just my opinion, id rather understand the input/output relationship than fly by instinct.

[Aerik]

Good points all around. I've always followed the 'look where you want to go' philosophy, and I've been pushing that pretty heavily with her as well-- she doesn't always do it, but it has helped.

Since I made my last post in this thread, we went to the school parking lot to work on some cone exercises only to have her bike die as soon as we arrived.

After trucking it home and doing some testing, we've deduced that it's the regulator/rectifier, so we're gonna have to hunt one down. In the meantime, I guess she's getting a few days' bench time. Maybe I'll make her watch the 'ride like a pro' videos or something.

[C-bus]

I understand it helps, but I think it also leads to more crashes due to target fixation.

Just my opinion, id rather understand the input/output relationship than fly by instinct.

It leads to crashes when fixating on the wrong target, hence validating the advice. The bike WILL go where your nose is pointing, so point it in the right direction!

[jporter12]

I understand it helps, but I think it also leads to more crashes due to target fixation.

Just my opinion, id rather understand the input/output relationship than fly by instinct.

It's definately a combination of all of this. I'm sure she has learned the input/output concept. At this point, going where she wants to go is the key. I know from my own learning that once you get the look where you want to go, and not just infront of you idea, you will use the input/output as you should be. Last season (my first) I was watching too close in front of me. My cornering sucked. As I "conditioned" myself to watch further ahead, when I need more input, I automatically reacted with more push on the bars, giving me the additional lean that I needed.

[NinjaNick]

I understand it helps, but I think it also leads to more crashes due to target fixation.

Just my opinion, id rather understand the input/output relationship than fly by instinct.

Oh when I'm low and hauling through a turn I'm looking way ahead through the turn. It helps my corner speed and keeps it safe and fun because it's just how you do it. Target fixation doesn't happen because you're following the road surface, not a nuetral object, atleast for me. Lets even say if there's a close call on hitting an object or going off road...I will look further away from it or through the turn even more to get more lean and avoid it. I'd rather go beyond my limits risking a lowside and attempt not hitting it or running off the road. Just my way of riding.