I hate the union mentality...

[Steve Butters]

I don't want to sound like (more of) an a-hole, but for unskilled labor, how could you expect a company to pay $30 an hour? I'm assuming it's unskilled based on the starting wage, so excuse me if I made a bad assumption.

While I understand incremental pay increases for a loyal employee, it's ridiculous to have to pay someone that much $$ for the same job you could pay $8-$15 / hour. A smart company would let the employee know early on that the max wage for that job was $15 an hour, and no more. If the employee wanted more, he/she would need to look into changing positions.

because back before computers when these guys started working, it was skilled labor - im talking people who have been there for 30-40 years

and i make nowhere near that much ,you musta missed where i said i make about $150 a week after taxes

i also agree a pay cap should be implemented, because i dont think any job in that building is hard enough (anymore) to be worth that kind of pay...i think 15 an hour would be a decent pay cap for the type of work we do

i dont make the rules, i was just telling how its set up

and technically....its considered skilled labor because of how it was back in the day...but now that the computers print out labels, the only thing we need to know how to do is read 4 letters/numbers....so i dont consider it skilled myself

[SpeedTriple44444]

Morally though, I don't know if that's right.

Therein lies the problem. Morality. It's moral to pay someone a fair wage. It's moral to work to the best of your ability. Nobody has any sense of what's right any more.

[dorifto240]

I don't want to sound like (more of) an a-hole, but for unskilled labor, how could you expect a company to pay $30 an hour? I'm assuming it's unskilled based on the starting wage, so excuse me if I made a bad assumption.

While I understand incremental pay increases for a loyal employee, it's ridiculous to have to pay someone that much $$ for the same job you could pay $8-$15 / hour. A smart company would let the employee know early on that the max wage for that job was $15 an hour, and no more. If the employee wanted more, he/she would need to look into changing positions.

Good point. I was trying to figure out a way to phrase it nicely.

Plus, if you've been in the same position for 30 years with no advancement in title or anything of that nature... What does that say about you as a worker?

[SpeedTriple44444]

because back before computers when these guys started working, it was skilled labor - im talking people who have been there for 30-40 years

and i make nowhere near that much ,you musta missed where i said i make about $150 a week after taxes

i also agree a pay cap should be implemented, because i dont think any job in that building is hard enough (anymore) to be worth that kind of pay...i think 15 an hour would be a decent pay cap for the type of work we do

i dont make the rules, i was just telling how its set up

I understand... just pointing out that a company has to stay in business, and that reasonable wages are a part of that. There has to be fairness on both sides.

[Steve Butters]

Plus, if you've been in the same position for 30 years with no advancement in title or anything of that nature... What does that say about you as a worker?

you enjoy full benefits and a little extra money on the side? its not like theres anywhere to "move up" to...basic labor is basic labor there

[dorifto240]

Part of a Union's responsibility should be in keeping its members employed. $30 an hour for (now) unskilled labor bogs a company down, lowers their profit margin, makes them look less inviting to investors, and less competitive. Meaning workers get laid off. Instead of 100 union guys employed at $15 an hour, we now have 50 employed at $30.

Eventually that math breaks down, and the factory closes. Now you've got 100 union guys employed at $0 an hour...

It seems like some unions are as concerned about making money at any cost, as the vilified management is.

[Steve Butters]

I understand... just pointing out that a company has to stay in business, and that reasonable wages are a part of that. There has to be fairness on both sides.

i agree...but that is nothing to get after the employees about...that is a union problem *no pay caps*

if your employer called you into their office and offered you a raise, would you tell them no because "you dont think you deserve it"?

i wouldnt.

but i think if a new contract was written up that had a $15/hr pay cap, it would be a great thing for the company...it would allow them to save a lot of money without having to treat employees like shit to do it

the problem there is business ethics...its all about greed, no matter how much you cut back the pay, nothing will change at most places...instead of saving a million bucks, now they would be able to save a million plus another 5 million or whatever...its not like they would use the money saved to replace worn out equipment and stuff, it would just go to lining their pockets

im tired of working with broken ass equipment because theyre too cheap to replace stuff

i slice myself open all the time on broken shit...hell our computers still run windows 98

[SpeedTriple44444]

i also agree a pay cap should be implemented, because i dont think any job in that building is hard enough (anymore) to be worth that kind of pay...i think 15 an hour would be a decent pay cap for the type of work we do

That seems to be the going wage, even for low-level skilled labor. I am an electrical technician. I make more because I do engineering level work designing control systems, with some other specialized job functions . My last job, the cap was around there (probably closer to $18-21) for panel assembly. I didn't make nearly that much.

When they closed the plant I worked at, I found my current job. I also found that I was much more capable than how I was beign used in my last job, so I worked my ass off to move up in position. The company I'm at allowed that to some extent, and it has really worked out.

The problem with having someone making $30 an hour for doing general labor is that there is no incentive to move up and do more. it's a waste of a good person to not challenge their potential. On the other hand, a wise company sees potential in individuals and promotes and assists with education.

[Steve Butters]

Part of a Union's responsibility should be in keeping its members employed. $30 an hour for (now) unskilled labor bogs a company down, lowers their profit margin, makes them look less inviting to investors, and less competitive. Meaning workers get laid off. Instead of 100 union guys employed at $15 an hour, we now have 50 employed at $30.

Eventually that math breaks down, and the factory closes. Now you've got 100 union guys employed at $0 an hour...

It seems like some unions are as concerned about making money at any cost, as the vilified management is.

i agree...UPS layed off a shit load of feeder drivers this year when the economy took a hit...the volume has not gone down at all, so its not that we just didnt need them anymore, it was about saving money....if there was a pay cap it would save the company enough money to have possibly kept those other people employed....but then it comes down to, were getting by without them - so even if we had the funds to keep them, would we? probably not....

maybe i have a skewed opinion because i work at UPS, but it just seems like they will do anything they can to save money - even some things that are unreasonable (paper totes with wire in them...the wire rips and will cut you open if youre not careful...but they wont replace those $0.50 totes, just keep using them! theyre fine!.....as you bleed all the way to the first aid kit to get a bandaid or 7

[Sidewinder600]

Plus, if you've been in the same position for 30 years with no advancement in title or anything of that nature... What does that say about you as a worker?

It could say that you're lazy and not interested in furthering yourself or your career... or it could just mean you're getting paid too well doing something you're familiar with to leave. Without a pay cap it's hard to tell. A lot of gov't jobs are like this, and I know how long a lot of those people stay in those jobs.

Now if you go years without any advancement in title/responsibility AND your pay has stayed the same, I think that speaks volumes.

[Steve Butters]

That seems to be the going wage, even for low-level skilled labor. I am an electrical technician. I make more because I do engineering level work designing control systems, with some other specialized job functions . My last job, the cap was around there (probably closer to $18-21) for panel assembly. I didn't make nearly that much.

When they closed the plant I worked at, I found my current job. I also found that I was much more capable than how I was beign used in my last job, so I worked my ass off to move up in position. The company I'm at allowed that to some extent, and it has really worked out.

The problem with having someone making $30 an hour for doing general labor is that there is no incentive to move up and do more. it's a waste of a good person to not challenge their potential. On the other hand, a wise company sees potential in individuals and promotes and assists with education.

hell i wish i made 15 an hour....ill keep dreaming....in like 3-4yrs ill be at 15 maybe (hope i dont work there that long)

and the thing about UPS....theres nowhere to move up...theres no job above any other job, its all the same stuff...jumping up to management is a pay CUT and you lose the union so nobody wants to do it...most workers are part time with full time jobs elsewhere, so its not like they have anything to really look forward to moving up to

UPS has AMAZING benefits, which is why 90% of the people work there....i know a guy that makes 100k a year working for the gov. and he still works at UPS part time to get the benefits for his family - its not that he needs the money, or wants to even go anywhere in the company, he just needs teh benefits

[that dude]

I don't want to sound like (more of) an a-hole, but for unskilled labor, how could you expect a company to pay $30 an hour? I'm assuming it's unskilled based on the starting wage, so excuse me if I made a bad assumption.

While I understand incremental pay increases for a loyal employee, it's ridiculous to have to pay someone that much $$ for the same job you could pay $8-$15 / hour. A smart company would let the employee know early on that the max wage for that job was $15 an hour, and no more. If the employee wanted more, he/she would need to look into changing positions.

15 an hr WTF is that. I made that high school

[TopGun]

Here is my problem with Unions, The warehouse I worked at, I was almost injured due to two employees being drunk. I was a Porter(glorified janitor) that night and was cleaning up a spill when these two assholes come flying through on HighLifts( Big ass stand up forklifts) and them comeback and try to slide around in the mess, one of them damn near takes my legs off with raised forks. Understand, I do not jump very high except that time, I cleared the forks and got slammed by the panel and bounced to the ground. I went Fucking NUTS!! After getting the union steward finally involved, they tell the supervisor and steward that they have been drinking. Know what happened to them? NOTHING!!!!!!!! But I almost got fired because I stormed out of the office and slammed the door which cracked the window. I had to goto an appeal hearing and the union was gonna let them fire ME!! Until I grabbed my cell phone and started making a phone call. When They asked who I was calling and I said my lawyer and then all of a sudden it was hang up,, lets talk about this some more! WTF?!!!!! And now you know why I hate Unions.

[jporter12]

Unions are needed in some places/industries, but they have outlived their usefulness in others. MANY manufacturing jobs have left the country (union and non-union both) because of the high wages that American workers demand. I know about jobs headed out of the country first-hand!

[Steve Butters]

15 an hr WTF is that. I made that high school

15 an hr is decent pay for unskilled warehouse work

[C-bus]

15 an hr WTF is that. I made that high school

That was a dick-head thing to write.

[RSVDon]

15 an hr WTF is that. I made that high school

I find it hard to believe that you were legitimately (aka not under the table) making $15/hour at 18 with no GED or diploma.

That's about twice the going rate of unskilled labor in that demographic.

[Sidewinder600]

On a lighter note, I just realized that I've been following a thread about avoiding work and not being worth what I'm getting paid... at work.

I will now humbly accept my Nobel Fail Prize and move on.

[dorifto240]

15 an hr WTF is that. I made that high school

Right, when you were low skilled labor at a low skilled job. Point being?

[Steve Butters]

please note - i only do this shit part time while im in college to pay my insurance, cell phone, and gas money

i have no intentions of working in a warehouse my whole life - $12.32/hr for 15-25 hours a week just dont cut it for me

[SpeedTriple44444]

On a lighter note, I just realized that I've been following a thread about avoiding work and not being worth what I'm getting paid... at work.

I will now humbly accept my Nobel Fail Prize and move on.

+1

Need to practice what I preach.

[Tpoppa]

A professor of mine was giving a speech at a UAW plant near Toledo. He taught manufacturing concepts, supply chain mgmt, etc. He was carrying a box with a few folders, a couple handouts (the stuff he needed for his speech). He walked into the plant he was told to put the box down or there would be a grievance filed. They wanted to have a union material handler carry the box...it would get to the conference room eventually. He walked around and went in through an office entrance.

If the stuff was in a briefcase and not a box I don't think it would have been an issue.

The UAW is a joke.

[that dude]

Unions are needed in some places/industries, but they have outlived their usefulness in others. MANY manufacturing jobs have left the country (union and non-union both) because of the high wages that American workers demand. I know about jobs headed out of the country first-hand!

Move to china if we demand too much

[Disclaimer]

You could probably borrow some union guys' boat to get there

[that dude]

I find it hard to believe that you were legitimately (aka not under the table) making $15/hour at 18 with no GED or diploma.

That's about twice the going rate of unskilled labor in that demographic.

I promise you, again you don't have to take my word for it...