I hate the union mentality...

[Cdubyah]

I'll give an example of union brilliance locally.

Pretty product made car floor mats. Union wanted a pay raise, company offered, union declined and went on strike.

Shortly after the strike, the company moved operations to Tennessee. I believe the company still would have moved even without the strike, but that was just a cherry for them. Having to pay scab workers (that came in by the busload) a cheaper rate to close down the plant.

There is a place and time for everything. Unions used to have that time and place. It's just difficult and outdated in today's economy. IMO

I guess my whole issue is that people on the top end want to continue getting incentives, bonuses, and more pay. The union in turn has to cut the little guy on the bottom, to be able to pay it. Even though the little guy pays the same union dues. The guys at the top don't fucking care, the guys at the bottom just want a fucking job.

Now where does that leave the company? A bunch of old soon to be retiring workers with no fresh folks to pick up the slack when they leave. So the company starts hiring older more experienced workers, again bypassing the guys at the bottom. So needless to say, if you're at the bottom get the lube, and keep it in your locker for as long as you are there.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Cdubyah

[RVTPilot]

I dunno, I'm kinda torn here. Myself, I have never been a part of a union, probably because I have never been in a line of work where it was necessary. But I have been in industries where it was, and since I have close relationships with folks like teachers and policemen, I am aware of incidents that had they not been unionized, the individual would have had a much longer uphill battle all on their own. At that point, litigation is much more expensive than union dues. But with a union comes politics, and anytme politics is involved money is highest common denominator, and rates above even things like pride and integrity. This is obvious, or unions wouldn't be a business interest of The Mob. Those fine business folk rarely find themselves dabbling in such endeavors such as child care or PC repair. At any rate, unions can and will be both necessary evils or legitemate advocates for one type of trade or another. But like the NBA, they are easily fixed and don't always distribute their wealth evenly.

One thing that does rack me up about unions are how patriotic they claim to be, speak of things like democracy and freedoms, yet most are akin to a caste system. Kinda funny.

[gixxie750]

personally i hate my union and the people who are pro union that i work with. I mean if the union cared about its workers it would spend less $$$$ on the union itself and give it all back to the workers...

[oldschoolsdime92]

The issue I see with a union happens all the time at the local city garage.The employees tell the bosses what they are going to do. If the boss asks them to do somthing, they don't want to do they say no.(example: if the foreman tells joe blow to go mow the park, he says no if he doesn't want to do it) If it turns into an issue it turns into a bunch of argument between the union and management.

[Steve Butters]

^ i hear you have a sweet self propelled push mower

mow my yard bitch!

[dorifto240]

Move to china if we demand too much

It's not that unions demand too much money. It's that, apart from a select few unions and individuals, we're not getting what we pay for. Look at cars put out by union companies, and non union companies.

Whose cars are better put together, higher quality, and maintain their resale value? By and large it's non-union.

Which auto companies had to be bailed out by the US government? Union or non-union?

Edited August 13, 2010 by dorifto240
Further explanation

[RSVDon]

Whose cars are better put together, higher quality, and maintain their resale value? By and large it's non-union.

I call bullshit here.

You're following a sterotype that is dated and overplayed. Take a look at Toyota's quality lately and you'll see what I mean.

I work in a union plant and I see what kind of quality we have and I can tell you with assured confidence that we DON'T ship shit at any cost.

[SpeedTriple44444]

Ford has some of the best quality of any car on the road now. He's right... the stereotype has been broken.

[dorifto240]

Oh good, one or two years makes up for twenty plus of crap?

Look, all I'm saying is over the last few decades, union automakers have put out sub-par products when compared to non-union. And I was stating this to highlight the fact that when you buy union (at least for the UAW) you don't get what you pay for. As a response to "That Dudes" statement.

I like Fords. I owned a Mercury as my first car.

Edited August 13, 2010 by dorifto240

[SpeedTriple44444]

Well, generally you are right, for sure. But you have to give Ford a little credit. Would I ever buy another GM or a Chrysler? No friggin way! I've been burned too many times on those pieces.

[dorifto240]

Well, generally you are right, for sure. But you have to give Ford a little credit. Would I ever buy another GM or a Chrysler? No friggin way! I've been burned too many times on those pieces.

I do like the blue oval. The new Mustang? Sooo nice!

[SpeedTriple44444]

I've never really been a ford guy, until I noticed what they've done lately. I would really like to have a new Mustang.

[RVTPilot]

All of this banter reminds me of an old joke.

Some union types were having a convention in Vegas one year, and one of the presidents there decided he was going to local house of ill repute and sample the wares. Upon his arrival he meets the madame and says, "Good evening ma'am, I'd like to sample your wares, is this a union esptablishment?", to which the madame replies "No, sir I'm sorry its not. But the one across the street is." He then thanks her for her honesty and decides to call upon said establishment across the street. While he's walking over, the madame from the first house calls the one to which he is headed and explains that he's coming over looking for a union house, and go along with it. The second madame agrees and hangs up just before the union boss arrives. He again greets her with the same question of the first madame, and the she replies "Yes sir this most certainly is a union establishment, please come in." He does, and she calls for the girls of the house to line up, and there is quite a selection of by and large some very beautiful women. After a few moments to ponder his selection, the fella points to a sexy doll says "I do believe I'll take that tall sexy redhead in the middle", to which the madame replies "Bullshit. You'll take the dumb, dumpy one on the end, she has seniority."

[RSVDon]

All of this banter reminds me of an old joke.

Some union types were having a convention in Vegas one year, and one of the presidents there decided he was going to local house of ill repute and sample the wares. Upon his arrival he meets the madame and says, "Good evening ma'am, I'd like to sample your wares, is this a union esptablishment?", to which the madame replies "No, sir I'm sorry its not. But the one across the street is." He then thanks her for her honesty and decides to call upon said establishment across the street. While he's walking over, the madame from the first house calls the one to which he is headed and explains that he's coming over looking for a union house, and go along with it. The second madame agrees and hangs up just before the union boss arrives. He again greets her with the same question of the first madame, and the she replies "Yes sir this most certainly is a union establishment, please come in." He does, and she calls for the girls of the house to line up, and there is quite a selection of by and large some very beautiful women. After a few moments to ponder his selection, the fella points to a sexy doll says "I do believe I'll take that tall sexy redhead in the middle", to which the madame replies "Bullshit. You'll take the dumb, dumpy one on the end, she has seniority."

[SpeedTriple44444]

[jporter12]

Move to china if we demand too much

I don't get what you're saying here. The work HAS moved to China, mexico, etc. and that's the issue.

Ford has some of the best quality of any car on the road now. He's right... the stereotype has been broken.

After having my head under the hoods of newer Ford products for the past few days, I'm gonna go ahead and call on this one right here.

[RSVDon]

After having my head under the hoods of newer Ford products for the past few days, I'm gonna go ahead and call on this one right here.

Cars will continue to get more and more complicated. Keep up Junior.

[jporter12]

Cars will continue to get more and more complicated. Keep up Junior.

I do this for a living, Junior. I'm just dealing with some poorly implemented tech. 6.0 Diesel. Need I say more? Ok, I will anyway. How about CVT. Neither product lasted more than a few years. Any ideas why?

[RSVDon]

I do this for a living, Junior. I'm just dealing with some poorly implemented tech. 6.0 Diesel. Need I say more? Ok, I will anyway. How about CVT. Neither product lasted more than a few years. Any ideas why?

Oh, that thing. I understand now.

[jporter12]

Oh, that thing. I understand now.

Talk about a day full of going

[Restlesswildman]

That was a dick-head thing to write.

But it is typical union thinking! I am non union and work with union plumbers and electricians. They treat me with the same respect I give them. I have had 2 give me trouble. I told them both that I needed their hall's #. They stopped really quick and asked why. I told them that since there was no steward on site I felt I needed to report their as$holeness! They laughed. I told them that HR and their union can work it out.

I grew up in a GM town and had an opportunity to work as a millwright. I scored high enough on the apprenticeship test but since I wasn't a female, a minority and CAUCASIAN I was not picked! I also had an inside line on the job, my next door neighbor was a union steward. He told me sorry, your shit outta luck son!

A majority of the union membership are good folks with good values and ethics! It is the 20% that are as@holes! That 20% is what has messed it all up!

[dorifto240]

A majority of the union membership are good folks with good values and ethics! It is the 20% that are as@holes! That 20% is what has messed it all up!

And unfortunately nothing is done about the 20%. If you're outside the union you can't touch them. And it seems like nothing is done internally either, because they've paid their dues.

[Ryan_c_F]

if you don't like them don't join. Will always be around my friend. It's time the scab owners start paying the workers a decent wage. Trust me the owners bid it the same.

Yeah, like $35/hour to air wrench three bolts at a time...

[that dude]

Hey it is what is is. Jealous? You made your path in life.

[jporter12]

Hey it is what is is. Jealous? You made your path in life.

The truth is that unions are great in some cases. It sounds like that dude is in a situation where it is a good thing. It also sounds like tbutera is as well. Many public services jobs (Fire/EMS, police, etc...) pretty much need union representation as well.

There are many places that unions have done more damage than good, and many manufacturing jobs reflect this. Labor get's too expensive? Export the work. Care to argue that there's a reason for them to keep the jobs here under union control? Patriotism is not a good answer, because corporate greed will squash it in a heartbeat.