too young to ride debate

[fusion]

Do you honestly think the odds of getting hit in the head by a golf-ball are equal to dying in a motorcycle race?

There are a LOT fewer kids racing motorcycles than playing football, baseball, golf, cheerleading, and gymnastics.

I'd honestly like to see data on the fatalities "per capita" in each sport. My hope would be that racing comes out relatively even, or favorably compared to other sports, but my inclination is that the opposite is true.

off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 deaths in the last 3 years as a result of racing. that's kids and adults. I can't think of that many football related deaths in my LIFETIME, at the pro or amateur level.

Most of the time I've seen numbers of deaths related to something like football they conveniently don't include things like heat related deaths during practices or games because they are considered "indirect". Including direct and indirect deaths there are about 14 (9 indirect, 5 direct) a year in football combining all levels of play.

[redkow97]

I'm looking for data on football related deaths, and Wikipedia gets a math fail...

they say the yearly average has remained constant at 9 deaths per year, but then say that there have been nearly 1700 deaths related to football in the last 75 years. that's an average of over 22 deaths per year...

maybe 9 is with modern helmets and pads?

We'll go with 9 per year. they claim 1.8 million participants in football (in 2006)

how many people do we think race? In America, I'm betting it's a lot less than 1.8 million. Maybe a third of that, if we're lucky...

proportionately, racing is killing more people. Adults and kids may fully understand that risk, but should we be allowing kids to accept it?

I really want to be convinced that 6 yr olds on PW50's and 11 yr olds on RS125's is a great and wonderful thing; but the math isn't adding up.

[fusion]

I'm looking for data on football related deaths, and Wikipedia gets a math fail...

they say the yearly average has remained constant at 9 deaths per year, but then say that there have been nearly 1700 deaths related to football in the last 75 years. that's an average of over 22 deaths per year...

maybe 9 is with modern helmets and pads?

...

Because the numbers have been declining over the years and the 9 number is from recent years. Safety equipment and rule changes have reduced death and injury rates.

[Dubguy85]

Do you honestly think the odds of getting hit in the head by a golf-ball are equal to dying in a motorcycle race?

There are a LOT fewer kids racing motorcycles than playing football, baseball, golf, cheerleading, and gymnastics.

I'd honestly like to see data on the fatalities "per capita" in each sport. My hope would be that racing comes out relatively even, or favorably compared to other sports, but my inclination is that the opposite is true.

off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 deaths in the last 3 years as a result of racing. that's kids and adults. I can't think of that many football related deaths in my LIFETIME, at the pro or amateur level.

NOT TRUE AT ALL

EDIT

High school football in 2008 accounted for a total of 43 catastrophic injuries – seven deaths, 20 disability injuries, and 16 catastrophic injuries with recovery. This is the greatest number since the start of the study in 1982.

Check wera post 19

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=265049&highlight=debate

Edited August 31, 2010 by Dubguy85
Found info on wera

[redkow97]

Any stats cited need to be proportional.

[Dubguy85]

Any stats cited need to be proportional.

Check it out.. 7 deaths in high school football in 2008 alone?!?!?!

[redkow97]

Check it out.. 7 deaths in high school football in 2008 alone?!?!?!

right, but there are easily 7 times as many kids playing football as there are road racing (let's not even bring dirt bikes into this...)

Proportionally, i'm afraid that road racing is more dangerous. I hope Peter's death prompts a real investigation into these stats, and I hope i'm totally wrong.

[Dubguy85]

right, but there are easily 7 times as many kids playing football as there are road racing (let's not even bring dirt bikes into this...)

Proportionally, i'm afraid that road racing is more dangerous. I hope Peter's death prompts a real investigation into these stats, and I hope i'm totally wrong.

This was the first death in the USGPRU since its 9 years existence.

[natedogg624]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Aug/080818j.htm

i dont know if the USGPRU is the same as the redbull rookies cup or not...

[Dubguy85]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Aug/080818j.htm

i dont know if the USGPRU is the same as the redbull rookies cup or not...

I don't even need to click the link to know what that is, but no its not the same.

[redkow97]

Redbull rookies cup is a step up from USGPRU, or at least the European/world version. Kaleb DeKeyrel (12 yrs old. gridded right behind Peter in his pics from Indianapolis) got an invitation to try out for the redbull rookie cup in Spain in a few weeks.

the rider who died in that series was in 2008 I think. He was more like 15 though, if memory serves. I recall reading about that shortly after I started trackdays.

[Dubguy85]

Redbull rookies cup is a step up from USGPRU, or at least the European/world version. Kaleb DeKeyrel (12 yrs old. gridded right behind Peter in his pics from Indianapolis) got an invitation to try out for the redbull rookie cup in Spain in a few weeks.

the rider who died in that series was in 2008 I think. He was more like 15 though, if memory serves. I recall reading about that shortly after I started trackdays.

So what is the appropriate age to get on a track? What about go karts? What about BMX? Skateboarding?

[Reimbrandt]

gotta chime in.... it was nothing more than a accident. what are the odds that the rider following him was gonna clip him in the right spot to kill him? hell, the kid can be riding in his bicycle over to a friends and get clipped by a dip cager and pass easier. I agree... as long as the parent not pushing to kid and it the kids choice to do what they are doing. granted its the parents that have to make the choice to allow the kid to do whatever and take all measures to protect them. heck... we got punks running all over this place on mopeds that are wearing helmets and shorts that are risking themselves a hell of a lot more than someone on a closed track with safety crews. cant just let your kid run out and jump off a cliff, but damn you can put em in a bubble either. this is a problem with the country that is getting worse....kids are to protected and guarded. damn... we had at least some things out on our play grounds at school that were a bit dangerous but fun as hell. now they are all gone and everything is padded........ wtf. safety is one thing but its getting to a point we are raising a bunch of pussies cause we dont let them go out and experience life a little. like I said before I get all jumped on... dont go out and throw your kid in front of a bus, but give em a break. they do bounce back up a lot better than us older folk. probably dug myself enough of a hole......... better shut up

[r1crusher]

I'll back your statement Reimbrandt.

EDIT: Here's the thing. If you want to shelter you little precious creation, cool. You do that. My kids will have bumps and bruises, cuts and scrapes. I don't tell you how to raise your kids so don't tell me how to raise mine.

Edited August 31, 2010 by r1crusher

[Casper]

Hundreds of children die all the time doing various activities.. some of which include just sitting in the passenger seat of mom's minivan. The only difference between Peter's tradgedy and that of other children is the fact that it was witnessed by thousands of spectators. Peter was statistically safer on that bike than my son is in the passenger seat of my Subaru.

It's a shame that this happened to such a brilliant boy' date=' but these things happen. As a father I feel for his parents, but I don't make the mistake of feeling sorry for young Peter. He lived more in his 13 years than most will live in their lifetime. He's an inspiration to me and to my 11 year old son. If I had the financial ability to provide the joy of racing to my son I wouldn't hesitate for one second.

RIP little man. The racing world won't be the same without you.[/quote']

This.

[Moto-Brian]

gotta chime in.... it was nothing more than a accident. what are the odds that the rider following him was gonna clip him in the right spot to kill him? hell, the kid can be riding in his bicycle over to a friends and get clipped by a dip cager and pass easier. I agree... as long as the parent not pushing to kid and it the kids choice to do what they are doing. granted its the parents that have to make the choice to allow the kid to do whatever and take all measures to protect them. heck... we got punks running all over this place on mopeds that are wearing helmets and shorts that are risking themselves a hell of a lot more than someone on a closed track with safety crews. cant just let your kid run out and jump off a cliff, but damn you can put em in a bubble either. this is a problem with the country that is getting worse....kids are to protected and guarded. damn... we had at least some things out on our play grounds at school that were a bit dangerous but fun as hell. now they are all gone and everything is padded........ wtf. safety is one thing but its getting to a point we are raising a bunch of pussies cause we dont let them go out and experience life a little. like I said before I get all jumped on... dont go out and throw your kid in front of a bus, but give em a break. they do bounce back up a lot better than us older folk. probably dug myself enough of a hole......... better shut up

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

I think that a major issue is the fact that a lot of people just don't understand. People that look at motorcycle racing as dangerous because they never tried it. Or, maybe they know only of a friend or someone they knew that got killed on one and instantly feel they are death machines. Adding a 13 year old to the mix only makes them feel it is negligent on the parents part.

I had our son riding at age 4. He asked. We are around it all the time. Hell, I haven't had a real job since college and ever since I started riding at age 18, I haven't been on anything else. We eat, drink and shit motorcycles and when it came time, he wanted to try it. We got him a PW50 and he's got a 65 now in the garage.

I never pushed. I never forced a single moment. I might have pressured him to try again after a fall, but I never made him do anything. He asks to ride and we go. Simple. If I were a professional golfer, would it be crazy to think that my son would want to golf, also?

It's a life style at times and sometimes, what we know to be a rather safe sport in general, we feel it is perfectly fine to allow a 4 year old the seat to a motorcycle. Just with anything, it is how we teach our kids. Peter's parents taught him well. He was a good kid, he had great skills, had proper help via professional riders, coaches, etc. He was always in good hands. It wasn't like they gave him the key and said go jump that 60' double and he crashed and broke his neck...

[SpeedTriple44444]

I agree about overprotecting kids these days. I think a lot of it has to do with lawsuits. My son got in trouble yesterday at his new school on the playground for climbing a tree. I loved his response (he's 5 btw) "but dad, they have awesome trees!". What can you say to that? He has been riding his kawi 50cc dirt bike for over a year now. If he wants to race, he can. If not, no big deal. The one thing he won't be doing is riding on the back of my bike. It's too dangerous and he is too young to understand the consequences of his decisions. How many kids are hurt, killed, or paralyzed playing football? A guy I work with refs high school and college games, and there was one last year where a kid was paralyzed. I didn't hear any calls for ending high school football.

[jbot]

this is very sad. i wish the best for his family.

[RC51 John]

IT is sad that this happened, but like everyone has said, the kids know the risks. The parents know the risks too. Even the woman said it is the parent's choice to let the kid ride or not.

Now as to the comments people had about Fox News, what am I missing? The news guys even said the kids can die snow boarding or skiing. They remained neutral if not leaning towards the kids right to do what he wanted. They brought in an outside person with an opposing view as their own, to have a discussion. But since it was Fox who reported it, they must be at wrong?

Meh, I pretty much consider Fox News to be Robert Murdock blog site.

[chevysoldier]

I was looking through Wendy Murphy's FB page and all the comments about Peter Lenz have been removed. So I posted up asking if her views have changed.

[Beegreenstrings]

[chevysoldier]

[jschaf]

I feel sorry for the boy & his family. I think they probably knew what the risks might be though. I also feel sorry that we have so many "do gooders" in our society that need to preach about his misfortune. I hate it when people that don't have a clue have all the answers for us all. If they had their way people would take no risks whatsoever & then where would we be?