Buell Back in Business with 1190RS

[chevysoldier]

I hope Buell makes a come back and ends up buying Harley.

[tyler524]

I hope Buell makes a come back and ends up buying Harley.

That would be a horrible business decision

[drew95gt]

That would be a horrible business decision

:werd:I think HD is just polishing the brass on the Titanic...I don't see them getting bailed out again when they get into trouble.

[chevysoldier]

That would be a horrible business decision

i'm not saying it would be a good idea, just that it would be funny for the company that got dropped to make a huge comeback to the point where they could buy HD and rub it in their face.

[Uncle Punk]

An American sport bike only company will never be bigger than an American cruiser company. Not gonna happen.

[vw151]

I expect this to be a small run of pricey hand built bikes. I'll be surpised if more than 100 are made for 2011.

There are already handful of 1190RR's racing abroad (not legal in any US series). I just read that a 1190RR clinched the championship for the Euro Sound of Thunder Series.

http://www.erikbuellracing.com/motorcycles/1190RR/

That is exactly what I was thinking. As radical as his ideas are this should be a brand more like Bimota, making innovative albeit high priced super bikes.

In fact the only way a company like this could survive is running lean like any exotic car or bike manufacturer. You can't compare them to the Suzuki's Yamaha's or Hareley Davidsons of the world that are able to support many financially challenged divisions by propping them up with their bread and butter. They are just going to build really nice and expensive bikes and charge the customer what it costs to do so.

Further, Buell can drop the "Harley sport bike" stigma that has plagued them from the start.

In all honesty, I think everyone here should be very optimistic to see some very cool American motorcycles for the first time in a long time. Something we can be proud of that is innovative, fresh and cool. For once we might not have to long for what the Italians, Germans or Japanese do better than us. We have a chance to have bikes that Europe loves and American bikes that could possibly win some races.

The more I look at Buell, I'm less inclined to complain about how stupid perimeter brakes might be or gasp at the duel radiator design. I think it's better to view what Buell is doing as something more like the Britten. It's fresh, it may not always be better than traditional set ups but you don't know unless you try it and test it on a race track and if you keep trying new radical designs you are eventually bound to make some break throughs and when you do you will likely dominate and be imitated.

No less I applaud Erik Buell for sticking with his convictions, telling HD to suck it and going off on his own to take some risks and trying some new things. Although Buell may lack the ability to turn out a lot of motorcycles at a cheap price they will now have the ability to turn out the motorcycles that they actually want to build with out need for big brother's approval.

Edited September 22, 2010 by vw151

[vw151]

Anyone want to buy www.1190rs.com from me? I bought it the day this was announced last week.

Nice move. Seriously, nice move.

[Tpoppa]

The more I look at Buell, I'm less inclined to complain about how stupid perimeter brakes might be or gasp at the duel radiator design.

I get that the 1125 pods put off more than a few people...out of curiousity what's not to like about the brakes? I always thought they worked well enough and they give a handling advantage.

[vw151]

I get that the 1125 pods put off more than a few people...out of curiousity what's not to like about the brakes? I always thought they worked well enough and they give a handling advantage.

That's what I'm saying. I think the brakes are fine, it's just a lot of people want to tear Buells apart for all of the unorthadox ways of doing things. Belt drive, perimeter brakes and so on and so fort. I'm saying I applaud them.

The only thing about Buells I never liked (until the 1125R) was that they used the air cooled harley motors that just aren't meant for sport bikes.

[Tpoppa]

That's what I'm saying. I think the brakes are fine, it's just a lot of people want to tear Buells apart for all of the unorthadox ways of doing things. Belt drive, perimeter brakes and so on and so fort. I'm saying I applaud them.

The only thing about Buells I never liked (until the 1125R) was that they used the air cooled harley motors that just aren't meant for sport bikes.

Gotcha.

[Disclaimer]

Mr. Buell still has some new tricks...

Erik Buell’s latest patent combines exhaust, swingarm

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/11/erik-buell%E2%80%99s-latest-patent-combines-exhaust-swingarm/

Erik Buell likes to say that the motorcycles he makes, including the EBR 1190RS debuting this winter, have only just caught up with designs he first penned 20 years ago. Here’s a rare glimpse inside some of his latest thinking, this patent for an exhaust-incorporating swingarm was just published.

Somewhat confusingly titled a “Movable Exhaust System” in the patent, the concept here is relatively simple: channel the exhaust through the swingarm, housing the components that usually form the exhaust canister inside that swingarm.

This dual role fits with the fundamental tenet’s of Erik’s designs. His frames hold fuel, swingarms in the past have held oil, Harley engines were fun to use and kept his evil corporate masters happy. By housing the exhaust within the swingarm, mass will be made more centralized, the motorcycle will stand up to crashes better, a major heat source will moved away from the rider and the overall number of parts will be reduced. We showed these drawings to an automotive engineer, who doesn’t believe there will be an appreciable increase in unsprung weight as most of the added components are housed directly under or forward of the spring mount. He went on to say that those components were very light anyways and, should there be a slight increase in unsprung weight, it would be more than made up for by losing the weight of an external canister and in reducing part counts.

But get this, the system shown in these patent drawings doesn’t just combine two roles, it adds a third which has never before been possible. When we exclusively unveiled the 2010 MotoCzysz E1pc, we saw that it used winglets to channel high pressure air through tunnels in the frame to the area above the rear wheel. This low pressure area is traditionally a huge problem for motorcycles, effectively pulling them backwards as speeds increase. Like the Moto Morini 500 Turbo before it, the E1pc filled in and broke up that low pressure area with high pressure air from the front of the bike. Taking dual-role parts to a ridiculous extreme, Erik has located the exhaust exit in an ideal location to use its gasses to break up and fill in that low-pressure area, achieving what should be a significant aerodynamic benefit.

Our automotive engineer buddy estimates that a motorcycle engine should be able to exhaust enough high-pressure gasses to have a measurable impact on aerodynamics. Using, say, a 1,200cc v-twin operating at a constant 8,000rpm, he roughly estimates that 1,200cc of high-pressure gas would be leaving the exhaust ever .0015 seconds.

These drawing show two potential methods for connecting the exhaust headers to the swingarm: a flexible pipe and a rotational coupling running through the swingarm pivot. it’s the former that will cause the most brow furrowing, but it shouldn’t. Flexible pipes capable of reliably dealing with extremely high temperatures have been around for years now. A nicely-designed cruiser from New Orleans employed a flexible pipe made from a nickel-chromium alloy called Inconel to similarly channel its exhaust gasses through a swingarm.

Another potential criticism is also addressed in the drawings, two different solutions for service panels are shown, all of which would allow access to repair or replace the exhaust internals. What’s not clear is how that most possible of motorcycle modifications, the “performance enhancing” exhaust, could be accommodated. Presumably there’d be some sort of ability to reconfigure the gas flow through the swingarm internals.

The application for this patent lists “Erik Buell” as the inventor and includes this abstract:

“A motorcycle including a swingarm that movably mounts a rear wheel to a main frame of the motorcycle and defines a hollow portion through which exhaust gases are passed before being expelled from an outlet of the swingarm. A movable joint may be provided between a header and the swingarm, including a first portion fixed relative to the main frame, a second portion movable relative to the main frame, and a flexible conduit between the first and second portions. The movable joint may be coincident with the pivot axis. In some constructions, the hollow portion of the swingarm is divided into at least three chambers, and a plurality of pipes is configured to provide at least two flow direction reversals within the swingarm between an inlet and an outlet, with multiple volumetric expansions between the inlet and the outlet.”

Erik likes to say that he’s designed hundreds of motorcycles over the years, the vast majority of which remain un-realized. Only time and new EBR products will tell if we ever see the Moveable Exhaust System on a production bike.

Sources: Bad Weather Bikers, USPTO

[Zach]

schweet.

[Casper]

Anyone want to do something with that domain name? www.1190rs.com

I don't have time to fuck with it.

[Bad324]

that exhaust setup is siiiiiiiiick

[RFM]

I don't really see a benefit from it though? The underbody exhaust already addressed that unsprung weight issue, without putting extra stresses on the swingarm.

[Zach]

I don't really see a benefit from it though? The underbody exhaust already addressed that unsprung weight issue, without putting extra stresses on the swingarm.

he's basically eliminated the need for the underbody. Take away the fairly large weight of a muffler system and add a tiny amount of weight to the swingarm- while also improving aerodynamics.

[Tpoppa]

The benefit probably has something to do with changing the COG by moving the motor lower or further to the rear.

It'll be interesting to see if it appears in a production model.

[Disclaimer]

Do you guys not read the article?

When you file a patent, you have to list why it's novel.... Zach read it

[Cypress]

What’s not clear is how that most possible of motorcycle modifications, the “performance enhancing” exhaust, could be accommodated.

I'd assume you'd have to buy a completely new aftermarket swingarm if you wanted to upgrade it...but how could you make it a “performance enhancing” exhaust? Hmm..

[tyler524]

I'd assume you'd have to buy a completely new aftermarket swingarm if you wanted to upgrade it...but how could you make it a “performance enhancing” exhaust? Hmm..

New baffling inserts? or something of the sorts

[Moto-Brian]

Not to mention the amount of effort to avoid heating up the rear tire, bearings, brake caliper, etc...

I do not like the idea and see that he is really just patenting an idea that nobody else can expand on.

I think the idea is cool, but at the early stages and from his drawings, not the best idea.

[Zach]

If' date=' and that's a mighty big if, EBR gets around to building moar bikes.. I'll bet dollars to dildos that the swingarm/exhaust nonsense gets deep sixed.[/quote']

Very likely.

It does say something though about Erik's commitment to innovation. It shows he's still looking forward.

[shittygsxr]

If' date=' and that's a mighty big if, EBR gets around to building moar bikes.. I'll bet dollars to dildos that the swingarm/exhaust nonsense gets deep sixed.[/quote']

just like his stupid underslug exhaust idea, or stupid mass centralization. Nobody is doing that

[Zach]

just like his stupid underslug exhaust idea, or stupid mass centralization. Nobody is doing that

while some of his innovations have been copied by competitors, many of them are simply there to be different.

[Tpoppa]

while some of his innovations have been copied by competitors, many of them are simply there to be different.

Somehow I don't think that EB would agree with that. From the interviews I've seen/read, I'd say the man genuinely believes the technology gives an advantage. The underpowered 1125RR was consistently scoring top tens in AMA Superbike this year...something must be working.

We'll know for sure if the 1190RS gets homolgated into Superbike for next season