Promoted with less pay

[tyler524]

So I am receiving a promotion at work. I was all excited and happy that busting my ass is paying off. Right now I work through an engineering staffing service since corporate in Germany has had a hiring freeze in effect for a couple years. we have more contract employees than direct due to this and the only way they can hire direct is to create a new position. Our normal work week has been 48 hours since April and that is not ending Amy time soon. I have been working 53-60 for the last three months and there is no end in sight for the long weeks. I am being promoted and will take on quite a bit more responsibility which will require me to work even more. I am becoming a direct employee and going to a salaried position that is the same pay as I would currently get for 48 hours a week. I am going to lose money by taking this promotion but yet if I don't take it, then I get a big black mark against me. I don't know what the hell to so, I am darned is I do and darned if I don't.

[Carwhore]

is there anyway you can talk to your boss and ask for a higher salary?

Sometimes its not always best to take on management positions. Some people can make more money and have less stress in their field.

[mojocho]

Everything is negotiable. If they deemed you worthy of being hired, be honest with them and let them know you really appreciate the offer but you can't take a job for less pay and more work. Every boss I've worked for is understanding about that. And I've been on the hiring end as well.

If they say no, then do you really want to stay at a company in the long term if they treat their employees that way. Now of course if the possibility of getting fired is the result then take it, but start looking seriouly elsewhere in the meantime.

BTW, congrats on the promo regardless.

[tyler524]

Not going into management, I am moving from a mechanical designer to a mechanical engineer position and will have the responsibilities of a project engineer.

[cmh_sprint]

Congrats on the promotion. I had something similar happen at the start of this month. My boss annouced she was retiring and I was taking her spot. Unfortunately her bosses boss decided he didn't want to promote anyone to fill the spot. So for the same pay and bonus percentage I have had for the past 6 years, I went from having 9 direct reports to having 11 direct reports and 112 indirect reports, along with the responsibility for the entire state of Michigan for our organization. I look at it as a chance to prove myself at a higher level and use it to advance my career in the future.

[scottie.harris]

Everything is negotiable. If they deemed you worthy of being hired, be honest with them and let them know you really appreciate the offer but you can't take a job for less pay and more work. Every boss I've worked for is understanding about that. And I've been on the hiring end as well.

If they say no, then do you really want to stay at a company in the long term if they treat their employees that way. Now of course if the possibility of getting fired is the result then take it, but start looking seriouly elsewhere in the meantime.

BTW, congrats on the promo regardless.

+1

[tyler524]

Congrats on the promotion. I had something similar happen at the start of this month. My boss annouced she was retiring and I was taking her spot. Unfortunately her bosses boss decided he didn't want to promote anyone to fill the spot. So for the same pay and bonus percentage I have had for the past 6 years, I went from having 9 direct reports to having 11 direct reports and 112 indirect reports, along with the responsibility for the entire state of Michigan for our organization. I look at it as a chance to prove myself at a higher level and use it to advance my career in the future.

Atleast you get the same pay, I will make about 8k less by working 54 hour weeks which is on the low end of what I will be doing.

[TSB67]

Titles are useless if you are just getting walked on.

Might mean more $ at your next job if you can put it on the resume though.

[tyler524]

+11ty billion. What Mojo said. If that doesn't suit them' date=' then a simple, "Thanks, but no thanks." is all that is warranted. "More work for less pay" is not a good formula to live by. Titles are useless if you are just getting walked on. Seriously, do you work so you can be called "boss", or do you work for dollars?[/quote']

My issue is that you say no and then you piss them off and then your out of a job. I don't think that's the case here but you never know.

[mojocho]

My issue is that you say no and then you piss them off and then your out of a job. I don't think that's the case here but you never know.

Then at least ask for more money before you say no. Then if you are really concerned that is a possibility, then take it, but start looking hard elsewhere.

Obviously you are a good worker otherwise you wouldn't have this offer. They are most liekly not going to fire you for asking for fair compensation.

[jporter12]

Let them know that 48 hours is your limit at the pay they're offering.

[C-bus]

Take the position. It will pay off later in life as you become more marketable. I wouldn't negotiate. They identified you as someone of worth, now prove yourself to be a willing, career-minded individual. Don't be short-sighted by quibbling over dollars. IMO of course.

[tyler524]

I am thinking I might take it and then in a year hope that I proved myself enough to get a decent raise. I have only been here for a year and I more than likely won't sustain 55 hour weeks although its possible. I can almost grantee that I will always have 48 hour weeks though wich equates to about a 20 cent raise. I am going to talk with my boss tomorrow but I don't know if ot will be his decision in the end and I am pretty sure he has fought for me to become a direct employee. I just hope that I see some type of bonus check or something through the year.

[Mykill]

Ask him if taking the position will open up potential for a future promotion. Since they are creating the position for you and hiring you directly they could have plans for you to move up through the company. I would ask for a bonus or at least a pay match. I have talked to many people who have requested more money for a position and have gotten it. The worst he can say is no and you have a valid argument.

[tyler524]

I said I was going to talk to my boss tomorrow and see he has to say.

[tyler524]

No need to get bitchy.

No bitchyness here but if comes across that way its because I've had a hell of a long day and still sitting at the office.

[ohdaho]

I wouldnt worry much about short term pay situation now. If this is your career, Id be more interested in vertical movement potential within the company. Hours in the long run will tend to average out with highs and lows in the industry.

[shittygsxr]

I would have to assume the benefits of being a real employee are better than a staffing firm.

[mojocho]

Maybe you should ask for a raise?

So what are you saying?

Good Luck Tyler. Hope it works out for you. Either way great job getting the job!

[Cheech]

Ask him if taking the position will open up potential for a future promotion. Since they are creating the position for you and hiring you directly they could have plans for you to move up through the company. I would ask for a bonus or at least a pay match. I have talked to many people who have requested more money for a position and have gotten it. The worst he can say is no and you have a valid argument.

Potential, possibilities, and any crystal ball statements like them are only as good as the person making them, and are worth approximately fuck-all on a deposit slip. It's easy to ask for potentials, what's the person that clearly wants tyler going to say, you're stuck with this forever and ever?

They see value in you, and you need to politely tell them that that value is worth money and so is your time. When I took the job I have now that's precisely what I told them, I understand I'm going to be on call 24/7 with no end in sight, I understand that I'm going to be traveling all over the place. As a result, that time and effort needs to be reflected in the salary you pay me, otherwise I'm just a indentured servant (I know it's a little inflammatory) to the company just scraping by while I slave away. Fuck that.

My ONLY caveat to this is if you don't think that you are marketable anywhere else, or you lack the qualifications to go anywhere else. In that event, if you feel like this is going to be a huge resume booster, get what you can, pay your dues and do the job for a few months, then start putting some feelers out as soon as you can. Wait it out a year and plead your case at your review (or whatever they do). If you don't get a favorable response, start a full-blown job search. With your enhanced credentials you shouldn't have any problem at all.

[Tonik]

Sit down with your boss, be polite and business like and express your concerns. You are going to work longer, harder and with more responsibility and you think that warrants more money. Go in armed with facts and figures, what does this position pay in other companies? What do similar positions pay in this company? You need to know that and you need to show them you know it.

I don't think there is any harm in asking. It is business, you are in the business of selling yourself, so get to it. They are in the business of getting you as cheap as they can while keeping you happy and productive. No harm in telling them what it costs to do that.

Remember, they value you. They are taking you off of contract and onto the team..and moving you up. They value you, ask for what is yours.

If the boss says no, I think you have to take the job anyway. Saying no means he/they can't count on you...in their eyes....and that you are a dead end to them. So you stay in control and decide if you want to stay or if you want to look elsewhere.

[Disclaimer]

Welcome to the wonderful world of corporate America. Your decision really doesn't matter to the company in the long run. You take the position, you show mgmt that they can make you a bitch and pay you chump change. You don't take the position and you're outcast as someone lacking ambition.

They'll be dangling that carrot in front of you for all it's worth, and it never ends. There is no 'pay your dues' anymore. You either get in and networked with the right people within your first few months so you're 'IN', or you don't and you're a peon your whole career because they just can't promote you since "no one else is better at the job than you. We really need you where you're at, maybe project mgmt should be a LONG term goal....maybe, but we can't afford to lose you where you're at now".

You better learn to play the game before it plays you.

[Dubguy85]

Good luck with that. I honestly hope this all works out for you' date=' but you are selling yourself short. They offered you the job. Most employers expect a counter, or at least a negotiation of terms. You wouldn't pay 'sticker' for a car, would you? Why would you not at least attempt to negotiate a better wage for yourself? It's just one meeting. It won't kill you or your boss. Worse case... they tell you that the terms are concrete and you can 'take it or leave it'. Best case... you get better hours, a raise and who knows what else?[/quote']

Not trying to be a dick but you don't work in the corporate world do you?

[Cheech]

They'll be dangling that carrot in front of you for all it's worth, and it never ends. There is no 'pay your dues' anymore. You either get in and networked with the right people within your first few months so you're 'IN', or you don't and you're a peon your whole career because they just can't promote you since "no one else is better at the job than you. We really need you where you're at, maybe project mgmt should be a LONG term goal....maybe, but we can't afford to lose you where you're at now".

You better learn to play the game before it plays you.

I agree, then I disagree.

Yes, if he takes that carrot without wanting anything in return he's going to get "potentialed" for the rest of his career AT THAT COMPANY. However, if he doesn't feel like he has enough or the correct set of qualifications to start banging down doors, then I would advise he "pay his dues" until he thinks he does, then either ask for the raise at that time (knowing he's probably going to get "potentialed" again) or/and if they don't make with the cash find something else.

[Disclaimer]

I thought the 'AT THAT COMPANY' was implied....

This is why most people in "our generation" aren't lifers at any one company anymore - because you keep running into people that won't pay you what you're worth.