Ok, perhaps some of our LEOs or armchair traffic cops can make me smarter

[RVTPilot]

Ok, I can't be the only one to have seen or been victim to someone doing this, and it chaps my ass every time I see it. I'm travelling on a 2-lane road and approaching a light that I will turn left at. In the opposite lane at the light is another vehicle waiting to turn to their left as well, and is stopped waiting for through traffice in front of me to pass. I arrive at the intersection with what I beleive to be the right to make my left-hand turn as the lead car in the opposite lane is stopped to make their left turn. All of a sudden the car behind them comes around them to their right and nearly T-bones me as I turn. In my mind, they are 100% at fault as they have passed someone to the right in an attempt to gain the right-of-way. Am I wrong? Last summer I was almost tagged while on the bike in this exact same scenario (at the intersection of Mills Rd. and Rt. 83 for those that know my area) and the husband of the woman driving was leaning out of he window of their Explorer to give me what for. I was livid but continued on my way. This morning on the way to work, it nearly happened again, though it thankfully I was in my truck. But I was just as pissed, especially since the asshole making the dick move layed into his horn at me. He danm near had to run up on the curb to get around the car at the light.

So, is there something I am missing? Or are these just potential Darwin award winners out there running up their mileage before natural selection kicks in. I could see if this was me trying to slide it through the intersection after the car in the opposite lane was almost done with their turn, but these cars are stopped dead at the light.

Discuss, please...

[SWing'R]

Did the other car that went around the one go off the road (over the line) in the

process of going around the car? In other words, was it a single lane?

I think you said 2 lane, so I'm assuming you mean one lane each way.

I'd say they are definitely at fault going off the road/out of the lane to make

their pass.

[NinjaNick]

I HATE that crap!

[C-bus]

They are making an illegal pass.

[ReconRat]

Passing off the roadway, definitely not legal. Yelling at you is even worse, if considered road rage. Third, changing lanes that close to an intersection or crosswalk is not legal either.

One of the worse things in a pedestrian crosswalk (or any intersection), is to have a car suddenly switch lanes when approaching.

edit: go ahead and get plate number and call those in. For the record.

Edited April 9, 2011 by ReconRat

[TSB67]

Pretty sure that's illegal. Whenever I do it I'm creeping and yielding to anyone that might turn left.

As for your end of it, I also try to be aware of whatever is behind someone turning left in front of me. If I can't see, sometimes I'll just wait to let them go first. I would take even less risk if I was on a bike. Don't count on laws to protect you.

Here's a question I have on the same topic of at least the title of your thread - what the hell are "restricted hours" on a school zone with no flashing lights? Is this something I'm supposed to know? Why don't they put hours on the damn sign like all those no turn on red signs?

I actually got pulled over for this in driver's ed and I still don't know. Cop said something to the effect of "if you see kids outside coming or going or at recess or something" and let me go because "I know you folks from Parma are used to your flashing lights." Neither my instructor or his trainee in the car with me had any idea either. We were actually discussing it as I coasted down from 55 to about 45 before the cop nailed me.

I thought of it again yesterday morning as I went through a school zone at 55mph at about 8:30. I'm usually passing though there much earlier, and had an "oh shit" realization about halfway through. Didn't see anybody outside, but the next school zone I came to the lights were on, then the one immediately after that the lights were off. WTF.

P.S. A quick Google of this finds a bunch of people asking the same question, and the official answer from the ORC is the same vagueness the cop gave me.

Edited April 9, 2011 by brn6604
P.S.

[RVTPilot]

Did the other car that went around the one go off the road (over the line) in the

process of going around the car? In other words' date=' was it a single lane?

I think you said 2 lane, so I'm assuming you mean one lane each way.

I'd say they are definitely at fault going off the road/out of the lane to make

their pass.[/quote']

To answer your question, the other car crossed over the outer lane edge line, as it was 1 lane going in either direction.

I HATE that crap!

And I see it happening more and more.

Pretty sure that's illegal. Whenever I do it I'm creeping and yielding to anyone that might turn left.

As for your end of it, I also try to be aware of whatever is behind someone turning left in front of me. If I can't see, sometimes I'll just wait to let them go first. I would take even less risk if I was on a bike. Don't count on laws to protect you.

Here's a question I have on the same topic of at least the title of your thread - what the hell are "restricted hours" on a school zone with no flashing lights? Is this something I'm supposed to know? Why don't they put hours on the damn sign like all those no turn on red signs?

I actually got pulled over for this in driver's ed and I still don't know. Cop said something to the effect of "if you see kids outside coming or going or at recess or something" and let me go because "I know you folks from Parma are used to your flashing lights." Neither my instructor or his trainee in the car with me had any idea either. We were actually discussing it as I coasted down from 55 to about 45 before the cop nailed me.

I thought of it again yesterday morning as I went through a school zone at 55mph at about 8:30. I'm usually passing though there much earlier, and had an "oh shit" realization about halfway through. Didn't see anybody outside, but the next school zone I came to the lights were on, then the one immediately after that the lights were off. WTF.

Good point on your comment on looking past cars behind the stopped one. I do that a lot and it has saved me more times than I can accurately recall.

On your second point, that too is a great question. We have a school zone like that on Center Ridge Rd. in Ridgeville where Lake Ridge Academy is. No lights, just signs about hours. I would like to hear the difinitive answer to that one as well.

[buildit]

School lights are there as a reminder, you are supposed to know the laws concerning school speed limit times unless otherwise stated on the sign.

As for passing a car that is making a left turn, it is not legal. That being said I make sure all vehicles coming the other way are stopped and also waiting to turn left for just the reason you have above.

Might I also mention you should NOT move to the inside of the lane because you are making a left on a bike. You will increase the chance of being rear ended by making room for the people to get around you.

Famous remark is you may be right but you might be dead right.

[JaSSon]

Here's the issue: they illegally lane changed, but technically had the right of way since they were headed straight. You were waiting on the light to change and waited for on coming traffic to stop before you went (red). You still have to yield.

One of those grey areas of the law.

This happened to me recently in my TBSS. I was turning left, Exploder was behind a vehicle that stopped on a late yellow. The Exploder illegally changed lanes and ran the (now)red light. I was within inches of getting t-boned. I prob would have still been cited for not yielding, or we would have both been on our own.

People are assholes, but I've NEVER done that.

[JaSSon]

Oops, DP. GF's internet sucks.

Also, I'm mostly drunk.

Edited April 9, 2011 by JaSSon

[fazer1sniper]

I'M A CRAPPY Traffic guy (too much SWAT and violent cime time)but IMO the vehicle in the intercection has right of way, the one behind it is in holding patern. If that vehicle ( the dumb ass that nearly hit you) caused any type of accident by putting it's self ahead of the vehicle with the right of way, I would cite them for failing to yeald right of way (x2 if I could) and likely tag then with what ever else I could think up just to push the point home that they are retarded.

[RVTPilot]

I'M A CRAPPY Traffic guy (too much SWAT and violent cime time)but IMO the vehicle in the intercection has right of way, the one behind it is in holding patern. If that vehicle ( the dumb ass that nearly hit you) caused any type of accident by putting it's self ahead of the vehicle with the right of way, I would cite them for failing to yeald right of way (x2 if I could) and likely tag then with what ever else I could think up just to push the point home that they are retarded.

Fazer, I'd like to hire you as my personal escort.

[RVTPilot]

Oops, DP. GF's internet sucks.

Also, I'm mostly drunk.

You'll have this. No harm done.

[Helmutt]

Illegal to change lanes within 100 feet ( before & after ) an intersection.

Illegal to pass a vehicle turning from a single-laned intersection.

Illegal to project violent behavior towards other drivers.

All of these laws are subject to vary in penalty dependant upon the law-enforcing officer's attitude at that time, as well as his/her judgement casting skills in general :D:D

[ReconRat]

Here's a question I have on the same topic of at least the title of your thread - what the hell are "restricted hours" on a school zone with no flashing lights? Is this something I'm supposed to know? Why don't they put hours on the damn sign like all those no turn on red signs?...

...I thought of it again yesterday morning as I went through a school zone at 55mph at about 8:30. I'm usually passing though there much earlier, and had an "oh shit" realization about halfway through. Didn't see anybody outside, but the next school zone I came to the lights were on, then the one immediately after that the lights were off. WTF.

I don't know either, but in areas I don't know, I drop 10mph below the normal posted road speed in school zones. Quickly. Just a habit of mine. I do the same for anything and everything that looks weird and out of place. Motorcycles don't need surprises at full speed.

The school lights are goofy until daylight savings time is back. There's the old date to switch and the new date. Some are correct, and the others are an hour early. It will fix itself in a couple of weeks.

[ReconRat]

What fazer said is true. The standard rule is that the vehicle in the intersection typically has the right of way unless required to yield. Less collisions will occur if people aren't allowed to collide. Whodathunk.

[SWing'R]

In regards to school zones without lights, I assume 20mph anytime kids are present.

I suppose, however, that if no actual hours are posted on the sign that it

would be a good ticket to fight in court.

The problem is that cops and the courts like to stick to that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" theory.

Putting the burden on us to know when the "restricted hours" are. Not really fair if you ask me.

[Wicked1]

If you make a left hand turn in front of a vehicle going straight- you are at fault.

Even if the guy going straight is a douche, the turning vehicle will probably be cited.

[John]

I'M A CRAPPY Traffic guy (too much SWAT and violent cime time)but IMO the vehicle in the intercection has right of way, the one behind it is in holding patern. If that vehicle ( the dumb ass that nearly hit you) caused any type of accident by putting it's self ahead of the vehicle with the right of way, I would cite them for failing to yeald right of way (x2 if I could) and likely tag then with what ever else I could think up just to push the point home that they are retarded.

but how does someone turning left have the right of way over a vehicle going straight?

[RVTPilot]

If you make a left hand turn in front of a vehicle going straight- you are at fault.

Even if the guy going straight is a douche, the turning vehicle will probably be cited.

Prior to this tread, this was the gray area I was thinking about. I am making a left turn, but it wasn't a left turn in front of anyone going straight until the d'bag behind the left-turning car in th oncoming lane made an illegal pass in an attempt to gain the right of way. The guy driving straight didn't have the ROW by the rules of traffic.

Either way, I am sure there is a neat little place in traffic hell for these douchebags.

[Wicked1]

All he would tell the cops is that the vehicle in front of him turned out of the way and you were in the intersection when he went through.

Yeah, some people don't give a shit about anyone else on the road- but that's life.

[wht_scorpion]

Out of state drivers they suck I'm not say that because I'm from NY. I would say the same if I was still in NY.

[Bad324]

If you make a left hand turn in front of a vehicle going straight- you are at fault.

Even if the guy going straight is a douche, the turning vehicle will probably be cited.

this is false. I only know this because I received a written warning because I was the guy going straight. I made an illegal pass because I was not in a designated lane. The difference was the guy making the left coming the other way had already finished his turn before I went

[ReconRat]

There's a place like this on my way home from work. Everyone goes off road to the right, in the gravel, and makes a right turn. I do this slow and easy, knowing I'm in the wrong if anything happens. I totally yield to everyone, especially when the left turn gets their turn arrow. This generally angers people behind me, but considering that those left turners turn into any lane they want, I'm not getting out there in their way.

there is a seldom heard of law that says people must turn into the lane nearest them when there is more than one lane to turn into.

Not likely...

edit:

4511.36 Rules for turns at intersections.

Edited April 10, 2011 by ReconRat

[Big Green Valley]

4511.28 Overtaking and passing upon the right of another vehicle.

(A) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley may overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle or trackless trolley only under the following conditions:

(1) When the vehicle or trackless trolley overtaken is making or about to make a left turn;

(2) Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaking vehicle.

(B) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley may overtake and pass another vehicle or trackless trolley only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. The movement shall not be made by driving off the roadway.

4511.42 Right-of-way rule when turning left.

(A) The operator of a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley intending to turn to the left within an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway shall yield the right of way to any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley approaching from the opposite direction, whenever the approaching vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley is within the intersection or so close to the intersection, alley, private road, or driveway as to constitute an immediate hazard.