Tell me something BAD about Ron Paul

[speedytriple]

Not at my work LOL! we make more on the shop floor then most of the plant. and thats after we took a pay cut from big brother.

[tyler524]

So to flip this on you tyler as a factory worker I should earn less then you? Even though I make goods that can be sold to the consumer and the profit of the goods I make pay for your wages? Thats the problem with this country to much weight at the top of the food chain.

How would you build the machine or product that is sold if I do not design it? I take a machine and go start to finish on the design, choosing & ordering the components, creating the prints for you to build with. If you can build a fully automated robotic washer with a pile of steel and no direction then by all means you should be making much much more than me. You can also take care of any issues that would pop up during start-up, or installation at the customers site and have the responsibility of a million dollar machine working like it is supposed to.

I get a long great with the guys in our shop that are the ones actually building the machines. I have spent a lot of time out in the garage myself working on race trucks and other projects where I am the one welding and turning the wrench. Sure I am not getting paid for it but I also know what goes in to building things. Our welders and assemblers are great guys and are great at what they do but there is a lot more that goes into something than a guy welding up steel. I have great respect of the guys out there and depend on them to make sure that my design is built to spec and functions as it should. I beleive that they should be compensated for what they do and our good welders make a decent wage.

[speedytriple]

reread the post. If you design a machine that my dumb monkey ass can build to sell to the consumer then you earn your keep and deserve the pay you educated people earn.

Yep I quoted my self.

[speedytriple]

I can't complain about the wages I make for having no education. I am gripping about the people who want 100k a year to walk around and point fingers at each other when a machine they just spent $7mill on does not work. And then just leave it up to the operator to "fine tune" or fix the P.O.S. they just half ass built.

[Disclaimer]

So don't go to school learn a trade and make more then you would as a i.t. geek. Thats the problem with this country to many pussies don't want to work for there money. Stupid office monkey, go get your hands dirty and earn that money. To many people want paid top dollar for jobs that produce no tangible goods. Office jobs should pay 30k or less a year..

Do you produce tangible/ sellable things for the company you work for? Or do you work on project to make things "better" when you have no experience working with them in the first place. If you design parts that will make a product then you should earn what you earn. But if you simply are like the enginerds we have at my work that make educated guesses at how to fix problems on machines they know nothing about, then yes you are a waste of time and should earn 30k a year. I have little respect for most of my works enginerds only a very few are worth the money they make. And there "I am better then you cause your a factory worker making more money then I do" attitude does not help.

reread the post. If you design a machine that my dumb monkey ass can build to sell to the consumer then you earn your keep and deserve the pay you educated people earn.

I guess I don't understand why you're worried about what an office worker makes? That seems to be a lot of people's issue -- they worry too much about other people. "The autoworkers make too much", "The teachers make too much", "The police officers make too much"... "they make too much"-itis seems to run rampant.

The odd thing is, the only place it doesn't run rampant is when it comes to CEOs or Wall Street or executives. It seems to mostly fall on the ranks of where people think their peers are. Other people only "make too much" if they live in the same neighborhood as you and make more money for what they do.

Free market society right? So, it's ok for companies to make profits, but it's not ok if your neighbor makes more than you because he's a gov't employee, or an IT nerd, or a salesman. Because-- "Hey, we live next door, he's not better than me, so why is he getting paid more? Why does he have a new car? Why does he have a new (boat, jet ski, motorcycle, mistress, etc)? I deserve those things too and I work harder than he does, I'm sure."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259789/Why-money-CAN-buy-happiness--earn-friends.html

http://boingboing.net/2011/08/17/why-poor-people-support-tax-breaks-for-the-rich.html

http://www.economist.com/node/21525851?frsc=dg

Edited September 19, 2011 by JRMMiii

[ohiomike]

The only thing I can see as a major hurdle for Paul is explaining his comments on the 9/11 attack. Those being that the attack was our fault.

He suggests that, claiming that our former foreign policies has pushed the envelope ultimately creating so much animosity within the Islamic world that the attack was a result. But he never actually gets the chance to explain clearly before the catcalls nearly cut him off.

But if that's his only negative then I would gladly vote for him.

I agree with him-WE ARE NOT THE WORLD"S POLICE. Think of the money we would save by adhering to this simply policy.

He is a constitutionalist, he wants to shake up Washington by taking the Fed's out of our lives and giving the states back their rights to control their own destiny. He is a strong anti illegal alien proponent and says each of us needs to accept more responsibility in our lives.

Imho he is closest to what this country really needs right now.

If I were to be elected into the office my first move, right after being sworn in, would be to rip up Nafta, Cafta and all the other related trade agreements. While total isolationism won't work, a hefty dose of it will.

[accel_is_my_drug]

I am an engineer.

I work damn hard.

The stuff I design does not break and works exactly like it is designed to.

I am damn good at my job.

I can justify every aspect of a part I design with sound science and engineering principles.

And I am worth every penny my employer pays me.

Actually, I am probably worth more.

Certainly worth more than some bitter guy on a factory floor working just hard enough to not get fired who spends his lunch break chugging a 40oz and twisting up a spiff to get high before going back to work. (note: this is a jab at Chrysler factory employees: http://jalopnik.com/5841061/how-does-jeep-continue-to-ship-wranglers-with-the-wrong-parts )

I am not easily replaceable.

And I am a damn good employee.

[RymerC]

So to get back on topic: Ron Paul is perfect EXCEPT that

-He doesn't want the US to Police the world

-Maybe not supportive enough for some homosexual groups

-Abortion issues?

-Tendency towards isolationism in regards to manufacturing

-else(?)

And that's 11 pages? I'm interested in Ron Paul and would like some evidence that he's NOT the best candidate. Most of what I read about him tells me he's the best candidate I've seen yet for presidency in 2012.

Anything else to add that isn't a thread-derailing debate-fest?

[ohiomike]

I guess if you're not satisfied with the responses, then do some of the digging yourself. Its all public information.

[SAMBUSA]

So to flip this on you tyler as a factory worker I should earn less then you? Even though I make goods that can be sold to the consumer and the profit of the goods I make pay for your wages?

Absolutely.

[redkow97]

So to get back on topic: Ron Paul is perfect EXCEPT that

-He doesn't want the US to Police the world

-Maybe not supportive enough for some homosexual groups

I think Dr. Paul's primary point is that policing the world is not cost-effective for us, and may even piss off more people than it helps. I agree w/ the fiscal part. If we stopped spending money on foreign wars, and spent half that amount on defense, we'd be fine, and in a ton less debt.

regarding homosexuals, I think Dr. Paul is relatively neutral on that. He'll just say, "the states should be able to decide," without actively taking a position.