buildit Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I've seen 3 news reports on how local negotiations have suddenly saved "THOUSANDS" in recent pay and benefits packages for government employes. This might be attributed to the threat of issue 2 passing taking away the employes rights to collective bargaining. At least that seems to be what is inferred from the opponents of issue 2 who hail these negotiations as reasons issue 2 isn't needed. The head of the FOP said he didn't wanna give up his 7000 benefits package but the times required it. I'm guessing he believes he'll get it back when the economy improves or issue 2 fails. So if just the threat of issue 2 means thousands in savings imagine what passing issue 2 would mean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 thousands is like pennies when you talk about government spending....BFD imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) thousands is like pennies when you talk about government spending....BFD imoBut if thousands were saved per city / town in Ohio? How many cities and towns are there in Ohio? Multiply ten thousand by the number of cities and towns in Ohio. NOW your talking some real $$$.It looks like there are over 210 cities and town in Ohio with populations over 6,000 people. If each one save $10,000 in one government program, would be over $2 million. How many departments does each city have? It adds up. Edited October 18, 2011 by buildit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdubyah Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Pay freezes, and furlough days have been in place for several years for state employees. Long before issue 2 and SB5.They were negotiated under the previous governor. Edited October 18, 2011 by Cdubyah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Pay freezes, and furlough days have been in place for several years. Long before issue 2 and SB5.They were negotiated under the previous governor.But with the threat of issue 2 it seems those groups are "finding" more cuts they are willing to take. Seems to simply prove that the government bureaucracy is bloated and has many cuts they could yet make. Pass issue 2 and then we can go after the top dogs in the government and their pork barrel funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 But with the threat of issue 2 it seems those groups are "finding" more cuts they are willing to take. Seems to simply prove that the government bureaucracy is bloated and has many cuts they could yet make. Pass issue 2 and then we can go after the top dogs in the government and their pork barrel funds.NO, because of the threat of Issue 2 we went to contract talks early, and signed a new 3 year deal. I find it funny that you think we are the problem. How about there are secretary's for our local politicians make more then most people here at our office. Or how judges set their offices budgets and then find the county in contempt of court if they dont pay it, or say they need to cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snot Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 My father is a retired govt employee...his benefits were cut and his retirement is crap! He was a postal worker. Wish they would give better detail when they say govt employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 heaven forbid government workers have to save for retirement, like the rest of us.and for the record, I currently have a part-time government job that I would like to parlay into full-time in the next year and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 People used to go into public service positions for the feeling of making a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I bet I make less then what 90% of the people on this forum make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I make less. Trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I make under the average for our county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Why are we competing to see who makes the least money?I think the bigger problem is to classify all public employees the same.Fire and police personnel have difficult jobs. When they do them well, they should be compensated well. When they are shitty, they should be fired. They aren't, and they aren't. 2 problems with the current system.Postal workers and snow plow drivers do not have terribly difficult jobs. Compensating them in the same manner as fire and police personnel doesn't seem right.But again, there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive for letter carriers to perform better, and postal employees get raises simply for not getting fired. That's not right. I didn't think so when I was a union employee either.There needs to be a mechanism for evaluating and dismissing employees in ANY job. The public sector makes the "dismissing" part an extremely difficult process. Productivity suffers as a result. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 The whole thing of issue 2 is how much money we make.arent postal workers federal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Yes, postal workers are Federal employees. I always laugh when they say the Postal system is the worst run federal program. I thought that was the white house and congress? To me it comes down to the same issue companies with union worker have had to face, promises were made to appease the union that were based on old conditions and now those conditions do not exist. So it is either time to restructure the programs from top to bottom or let them go broke. Even people I know who are for issue 2 admit if they were a government employee they'd fight to keep the benefits too. There dam nice benefits. But they're unsustainable. So unless you think in 20 years you'll still get social security it's time for the wake up to happen and pay $400+ per month for crappy health insurance, invest in a fund you hope doesn't go belly up and wonder how you'll retire at age 70. Tell the unemployed how issue 2 is unfair. And don't worry the politicians, judges and lawyers turn under the heat lamp is coming. Show me one person who is satisfied with our current political situation in the US or Ohio. It may not be revolution but there sure will be some evolution in the government. The old, slow and dishonest will be eaten alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Federal workers have had collective bargaining taken away from them for over thirty years, yet they seem to be doing okay. It may feel good to take away the collective bargaining agreement for Ohio workers but I would guess it gets perverted into something that makes no significant difference just like it didn't with the federal employees. When you have complicit politicians giving away money they don't earn and don't have to answer to a bottom line government contracts will always give away more than a responsible business owner would who cares about the longevity of their company. Hell we can leave out a business owner and just make it a person responsible for a household worrying about its budget. There is no way they are going to overpay for services as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snot Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 My father had to work no matter the conditions outside. He had a walking route, now he has large calcuim deposits on his shoulders where the bag was he has tennis elbow from sorting only had 1 Saturday off every 6 weeks and worked 5am till 6pm all the time. He was barely able to feed us we had pancakes for dinner cause there was nothing else to eat. They are treated like crap by the publlic and there boss. There steps are counted and there breaks are 30 min for lunch (mail box 2 mail box). My uncle is a dayton cop and yes he should make more than a postal worker...just remember that mail man has to go in areas cops are afaid of un armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I tell my post man thank you everyday that Im home when he drops my mail off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew95gt Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I am against issue 2...I work for a county hospital and have already experienced enough cuts as it is. I took a nearly 10% pay cut due to Strickland's hospital franchise tax, took another cut with my opers, and I am afraid to see what happens if Obamacare goes thru as planned. I didn't go to college to work for free and get a shitty retirement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beegreenstrings Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) How about we say no to issue 2 and instead make our own issue that forces the heads of every large company to step down and make what its employees make. Then re-evaluate their budgets at that point? oh wait cant do that. Then the assholes would not be able to afford their million dollar homes and 3 million yachts.Fucking rediculous! Yeah cut the workers and pay, but its OK for the high ups to get raises and bonuses for doing so. Fucking stupid! Issue 2 is just plainly fucking stupid. (I have seen the cuts from this shit already, we lost 13,000 employees over 6 states)(in return forced our workload to triple if not quad).I am not saying nothing needs to happen but it needs to happen across the board. Issue 2 is trash and does nothing for the chain of command but line their fucking pockets! The Asshole that created it, bonuses for him, every manager for every company that has union employees. Bonus, for as many as it affects.I hate reading about it, I hate hearing about it. If these states were run correctly and everything was on the up and up it would never have been thought of.Hell at my company alone. We the engineers do the work that make the money. However, we have a manager watching us (6 engineering offices across Ohio). Then there is another manager that watches those managers. Then yet another that watches that manager and then another (head of state) watching that manager. I can see 4 too many managers that we dont need. WOW! there is a $2.8 million savings. Edited October 19, 2011 by Beegreenstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 The way I see it is the devil is in the details of this bill. Outwardly, yes civil unions collective bargaining needs reforming since the monies come directly from citizens. But when 2 sides attempt to agree on something, and cannot, is it good to have the 'arbiter' be one side that is arguing their side? Anyone can agree this is good, but if it were you this happened to I'm thinkin you might think differently. This is just one portion of this bill that I see as ludicrous. Like the inane HC bill congress passed, if its not right in its entirety how can it it be 'better than doing nothing'? Imho that kind of thinking is part of why we are in the spot we are in both locally and nationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 How about we say no to issue 2 and instead make our own issue that forces the heads of every large company to step down and make what its employees make.All that would do is weaken US companies by moving the talent pool of top execs and CEOs to companies based outside the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I am against issue 2...I work for a county hospital and have already experienced enough cuts as it is. I took a nearly 10% pay cut due to Strickland's hospital franchise tax, took another cut with my opers, and I am afraid to see what happens if Obamacare goes thru as planned. I didn't go to college to work for free and get a shitty retirement.But you think I went and got two degrees so I could have incompetent care when I show up in the emergency room? How many times does the 80 year old nurse have to stick the needle in my arm to get blood when I have a well defined entry point? Hell, I can take my own blood the scar is obvious enough. No one goes to school, works hard to get a degree and goes into debt to get told you'll never make enough money to afford to retire. But it sure is happening a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) To rhe guy that went to school and dont wanna work for free with a shitty retirement....Sounds like you are in the sane boat as the people that work in the private sector now... Edited October 19, 2011 by kawi kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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