Vulcan_Rider Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Just wondering where everyone stands and what the correlation is between how people feel about it and if they are public workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Option 1 will stay zero, option 4 might get a vote or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 NO ON ISSUE 2!! Can't even believe people are for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper_308 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 NO on issue 2!! Protect Ohio's protectors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester3681 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 No on Issue 2. Unless you don't think we need police, firefighters and teachers. Also, it opens the door for all other collective bargaining, and being a union member, this doesn't sit well with me. Cut the bureaucracy, not the front line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Option 1 will stay zero, option 4 might get a vote or 2 I know several public employees who are voting for it. They like the idea of performance based promotions over seniority/tenure based. They're sick of being passed up by older guys even though they work harder and more often. I know one guy who's voting for it just because he's sick of jerkoff coworkers getting the same pay raises as him (peanuts) even though they don't do half the work. This issue seems to be quite emotional for many. I personally see a broken system which needs repaired. Is SB5 the fix all? Nope. Is the status quo the fix all? Nope. Are both sides lying through their teeth about this issue? Yup. The unions are saying this is doomsday and will destroy all public workers. Not true. Pro SB5 are saying this is the cure all to many government funding issues in the state. False. The truth is somewhere in the middle. I think to be truly effective, it should be broken down into parts and each part voted on. For instance, I would venture to say the portion about not forcing any employee to pay union dues if they don't want to be a part of the union would pass a public vote by an enormous margin. I think a few portions of the bill would. I also think it should be spelled out in black and white just exactly who and what will be affected and how. The truth is, nobody knows exactly how it'll affect anything. But that's politics for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 We need less police for sure. The next one that drags my wife out of a car cause he thinks there's a gun in my car when she tells him there isn't is gonna be the first cop to go. Believe that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 We need less police for sure. The next one that drags my wife out of a car cause he thinks there's a gun in my car when she tells him there isn't is gonna be the first cop to go. Believe that.Run and tell dat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 We need less police for sure. The next one that drags my wife out of a car cause he thinks there's a gun in my car when she tells him there isn't is gonna be the first cop to go. Believe that. No shit!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC1000rr Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Zomg....evil cops... Zomg...evil computer hackers.... Zomg evil high paid corperations.... Zomg evil high paid self exempt politiciansIf he’s wrong then I encourage you to make a complaint or file a lawsuit for civil rights violation. Not all cops are bad, but its easy to make them out to be. As for the topic at hand, No on Issue 2. No way to fairly make a system on "merit based" in public safety. And I believe in leadership from the top down...as soon as the governor takes the same hit as the rest of us and gives the million in security upgrades to his own house back to the public then maybe I'll consider it. In my last contract we agreed to lower comp/time off hours, reduction in other parts to gain minor advantages for the long term future. (Injury leave, officer injuries are increasing dramatically) This contract we agreed to 0% raises as we knew things were tough...I already pay more then what SB5/I2 would require. I would then have no input on staffing, etc...or safety? I don't think so.... I can personally say that there’s a level that must not be operated with and I've been forced to do it already. When it comes down to me alone vs 2-4 others...where’s the safety in that. I've delt with people that "appeared" normal...only to have knives, guns and even 12yr olds with hatchets. Drug users that feel no pain (recently hurt due to another one 2weeks ago) My goal is to go home at the end of my day, not many private entities have to deal with that issue. (outside of security forces) And as for "unions" saving people that should be fired...not quite. I can tell you personally of co-workers that while on probation were severely written up, but weren't fired because they filled a "minority" spot that had to be filled. Though, I imagine that happens in the private sector also with no unions... And I have seen several officers resign or be fired, all an administration has to do is investigate the problems/alligations properly and there’s nothing to defend.And as for the top of the chain, lets look at pay raises equally for where I work. Officers 6% for 3 years......Vice President of Public Safety- roughly 16% Its hard for the working man to suffer all the hardships of cuts and hours and staffing, when you don't see it being applied to the leadership also....reguardless of private or public.Outside of that, the people that will truly suffer is the public. Any type of "merit system" for police will be statistic based..plain and simple. Stats come as a result with the public from tickets, arrests, reports etc. I know that many a officers (myself included) that with this type of system that warnings can almost be eliminated and tickets will become the standard. Which taxes the public more with fines, court costs and time spend dealing with it all...and makes the government more wealthy. Edited October 19, 2011 by SJC1000rr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 No shit!?Yep. She was driving my car. I CCW. He said she didn't fully stop at a stop sign was the reason for the stop. He kept inquiring about a weapon. She doesn't carry and I don't store pistols in cars. He didn't believe her, put her in his cruiser and searched the car WITHOUT asking for permission. Another PD shows up, she hears them argueing about it. The new on the scene PD pulls her out of the cruiser and apologized repeatedly for the other sackOshit and let's her roll out no stop sign ticket. She also told me she was fully stopped as she was waiting on another car to clear the intersection. She didn't get any names. I'm gonna go have a chat with the Chief about what training his officers have received on handling stops with law abiding citizens who legally carry. All this in Westerville a block from our house. I'm fucking pissed all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Zomg....evil cops... Zomg...evil computer hackers.... Zomg evil high paid corperations.... Zomg evil high paid self exempt politiciansIf hes wrong then I encourage you to make a complaint or file a lawsuit for civil rights violation. Not all cops are bad, but its easy to make them out to be.As for the topic at hand, No on Issue 2. No way to fairly make a system on "merit based" in public saftey. And I believe in leadership from the top down...as soon as the governor takes the same hit as the rest of us and gives the million in security upgrades to his own house back to the public then maybe I'll consider it. Can't argue that. All or none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Yep. She was driving my car. I CCW. He said she didn't fully stop at a stop sign was the reason for the stop. He kept inquiring about a weapon. She doesn't carry and I don't store pistols in cars. He didn't believe her, put her in his cruiser and searched the car WITHOUT asking for permission. Another PD shows up, she hears them argueing about it. The new on the scene PD pulls her out of the cruiser and apologized repeatedly for the other sackOshit and let's her roll out no stop sign ticket. She also told me she was fully stopped as she was waiting on another car to clear the intersection. She didn't get any names. I'm gonna go have a chat with the Chief about what training his officers have received on handling stops with law abiding citizens who legally carry. All this in Westerville a block from our house. I'm fucking pissed all over again. Oh wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 No on Issue 2. Unless you don't think we need police, firefighters and teachers. Also, it opens the door for all other collective bargaining, and being a union member, this doesn't sit well with me. Cut the bureaucracy, not the front line.Still wondering how when the bill was made to apply to police and firemen? Didn't the original bill exclude them? When did that change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hey people I don't think I'm making enough money at my chosen occupation can you guys vote to make others pay me more or chip in to help me make more? That would be awesome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester3681 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Still wondering how when the bill was made to apply to police and firemen? Didn't the original bill exclude them? When did that change?I just watch the commercials, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantahertzdonut Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm all for 2. I'm not a fan of unions and my plant will be closing in the next year in large part because of the union's shenanigans. I'm salary and I'm out of a job because of the wankers on the floor.I see and understand the reason behind unions, but they way they operate is flawed. In my eyes, they either need to go, or need an extreme overhaul in the way the operate. As it is right now, unions have only managed to cripple our heavy industries.I don't think 2's passage will fix everything either, the entire system has flaws that need to be addressed. In any case, I will be watching the results of this one closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Link to a dispatch article on the two sides. Actually has good information from both sides.http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/10/18/issue-2-would-give-management-more-say.htmlI see Pros being1 more control over staffing levels for changing situations2 better negotiating for benefits and pay3 a fresh slate for new conditions to be allowed forI see the cons being1 a lot more trust in elected officials to do what's right vs selling out to supporters2 possible loss of "good rules and regulations" which are important for people to do their jobs rightIn the end I think the bill is needed to clean out the old agreements and allow what IS working to become law, not just a agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm all for 2. I'm not a fan of unions and my plant will be closing in the next year in large part because of the union's shenanigans. I'm salary and I'm out of a job because of the wankers on the floor.I see and understand the reason behind unions, but they way they operate is flawed. In my eyes, they either need to go, or need an extreme overhaul in the way the operate. As it is right now, unions have only managed to cripple our heavy industries.I don't think 2's passage will fix everything either, the entire system has flaws that need to be addressed. In any case, I will be watching the results of this one closely.how much more then "those wankers on the floor do you make" "what do you do vs said wankers?"Im betting that unions protect workers from people just like you. People who sit in their offices staring at the walls who think that the evil workers on the floor that make the product are worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 how much more then "those wankers on the floor do you make" "what do you do vs said wankers?"Im betting that unions protect workers from people just like you. People who sit in their offices staring at the walls who think that the evil workers on the floor that make the product are worthless.Right, and poeple in unions think office workers, "sit in their offices staring at the walls." Without all that "wall staring" there would be no jobs for the union to squabble about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4DAIVI PAI2K5 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 He went there so I went there. I fully understand that people are needed in the office setting and that you need each to have a successful business. But with that said I dont think that many people would argue that most of the fat is at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I dont think that many people would argue that most of the fat is at the top.You would be wrong, hillbilly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantahertzdonut Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) We have a gentlemen who sweeps metal chips off machines. He makes over $75k/year. He makes much more than I do.On average most of the old guys here (the only ones left because the layoffs have been by seniority) make about $30/hr. Plus they get time and 1/2 OT. I don't make that much if you divide my salary up to hourly. Nor do I get time +1/2.And I don't sit at my desk all day. I'm a test engineer, and I do all labor on my tests in the lab. This includes heavy lifting, working with hazardous chemicals, and working at heights up to 90' above the floor. Not work for a patsy.What I do isn't directly affected by our union employees, and I will state for the record that we have many good workers. But if there is something that I do need from them, the union's rules step in the way and prevent me from getting my job done. I take the blame for that. If anything, I need a union to protect me from our union! Edited October 19, 2011 by wantahertzdonut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Speaking of union rules, I once got yelled at for moving a bookshelf to get to the outlet and cat5 jack. Apparently that's a union protected task, and it was a huge deal that I didn't contact the responsible department and have them do it. It would've had to of been scheduled and at least for a day or two out. All I needed to do was plug in a computer. LOL. Obviously not all unions are created equal. I just thought this was a funny story to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Speaking of union rules, I once got yelled at for moving a bookshelf to get to the outlet and cat5 jack. Apparently that's a union protected task, and it was a huge deal that I didn't contact the responsible department and have them do it. It would've had to of been scheduled and at least for a day or two out. All I needed to do was plug in a computer. LOL. Obviously not all unions are created equal. I just thought this was a funny story to share.Lots of stories like this One of my college professors was giving a speech at a UAW factory. He brought some handouts to pass out to people. When he was walking thought factory he caused a stir, because his handouts were in a cardboard box. If they were in a briefcase or some other container it would have been a non issue. But a cardboard box is protected and they wanted him to schedule a material handler to move about 3lbs of paper.This may be the exception, but this shit shapes the public perception of unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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