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SB 5 / Issue 2 for or against?


Vulcan_Rider

Are you for or against SB 5 / Issue 2  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you for or against SB 5 / Issue 2

    • Public worker for SB 5 / Issue 2
      0
    • Non public worker for SB 5 / Issue 2
      17
    • Public worker against SB 5 / Issue 2
      10
    • Non public worker against SB 5 / Issue 2
      7


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No on Issue 2. Unless you don't think we need police, firefighters and teachers. Also, it opens the door for all other collective bargaining, and being a union member, this doesn't sit well with me. Cut the bureaucracy, not the front line.

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Option 1 will stay zero, option 4 might get a vote or 2
I know several public employees who are voting for it. They like the idea of performance based promotions over seniority/tenure based. They're sick of being passed up by older guys even though they work harder and more often. I know one guy who's voting for it just because he's sick of jerkoff coworkers getting the same pay raises as him (peanuts) even though they don't do half the work. This issue seems to be quite emotional for many. I personally see a broken system which needs repaired. Is SB5 the fix all? Nope. Is the status quo the fix all? Nope. Are both sides lying through their teeth about this issue? Yup. The unions are saying this is doomsday and will destroy all public workers. Not true. Pro SB5 are saying this is the cure all to many government funding issues in the state. False. The truth is somewhere in the middle. I think to be truly effective, it should be broken down into parts and each part voted on. For instance, I would venture to say the portion about not forcing any employee to pay union dues if they don't want to be a part of the union would pass a public vote by an enormous margin. I think a few portions of the bill would. I also think it should be spelled out in black and white just exactly who and what will be affected and how. The truth is, nobody knows exactly how it'll affect anything. But that's politics for you.
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We need less police for sure. The next one that drags my wife out of a car cause he thinks there's a gun in my car when she tells him there isn't is gonna be the first cop to go.

Believe that.

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Zomg....evil cops... Zomg...evil computer hackers.... Zomg evil high paid corperations.... Zomg evil high paid self exempt politicians

If he’s wrong then I encourage you to make a complaint or file a lawsuit for civil rights violation. Not all cops are bad, but its easy to make them out to be.

As for the topic at hand, No on Issue 2. No way to fairly make a system on "merit based" in public safety. And I believe in leadership from the top down...as soon as the governor takes the same hit as the rest of us and gives the million in security upgrades to his own house back to the public then maybe I'll consider it. In my last contract we agreed to lower comp/time off hours, reduction in other parts to gain minor advantages for the long term future. (Injury leave, officer injuries are increasing dramatically) This contract we agreed to 0% raises as we knew things were tough...I already pay more then what SB5/I2 would require. I would then have no input on staffing, etc...or safety? I don't think so.... I can personally say that there’s a level that must not be operated with and I've been forced to do it already. When it comes down to me alone vs 2-4 others...where’s the safety in that. I've delt with people that "appeared" normal...only to have knives, guns and even 12yr olds with hatchets. Drug users that feel no pain (recently hurt due to another one 2weeks ago) My goal is to go home at the end of my day, not many private entities have to deal with that issue. (outside of security forces) And as for "unions" saving people that should be fired...not quite. I can tell you personally of co-workers that while on probation were severely written up, but weren't fired because they filled a "minority" spot that had to be filled. Though, I imagine that happens in the private sector also with no unions... And I have seen several officers resign or be fired, all an administration has to do is investigate the problems/alligations properly and there’s nothing to defend.

And as for the top of the chain, lets look at pay raises equally for where I work. Officers 6% for 3 years......Vice President of Public Safety- roughly 16% Its hard for the working man to suffer all the hardships of cuts and hours and staffing, when you don't see it being applied to the leadership also....reguardless of private or public.

Outside of that, the people that will truly suffer is the public. Any type of "merit system" for police will be statistic based..plain and simple. Stats come as a result with the public from tickets, arrests, reports etc. I know that many a officers (myself included) that with this type of system that warnings can almost be eliminated and tickets will become the standard. Which taxes the public more with fines, court costs and time spend dealing with it all...and makes the government more wealthy.

Edited by SJC1000rr
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No shit!?

Yep. She was driving my car. I CCW. He said she didn't fully stop at a stop sign was the reason for the stop. He kept inquiring about a weapon. She doesn't carry and I don't store pistols in cars. He didn't believe her, put her in his cruiser and searched the car WITHOUT asking for permission. Another PD shows up, she hears them argueing about it. The new on the scene PD pulls her out of the cruiser and apologized repeatedly for the other sackOshit and let's her roll out no stop sign ticket. She also told me she was fully stopped as she was waiting on another car to clear the intersection. She didn't get any names. I'm gonna go have a chat with the Chief about what training his officers have received on handling stops with law abiding citizens who legally carry.

All this in Westerville a block from our house. I'm fucking pissed all over again.

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Zomg....evil cops... Zomg...evil computer hackers.... Zomg evil high paid corperations.... Zomg evil high paid self exempt politicians

If hes wrong then I encourage you to make a complaint or file a lawsuit for civil rights violation. Not all cops are bad, but its easy to make them out to be.

As for the topic at hand, No on Issue 2. No way to fairly make a system on "merit based" in public saftey. And I believe in leadership from the top down...as soon as the governor takes the same hit as the rest of us and gives the million in security upgrades to his own house back to the public then maybe I'll consider it.

Can't argue that. All or none.
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Yep. She was driving my car. I CCW. He said she didn't fully stop at a stop sign was the reason for the stop. He kept inquiring about a weapon. She doesn't carry and I don't store pistols in cars. He didn't believe her, put her in his cruiser and searched the car WITHOUT asking for permission. Another PD shows up, she hears them argueing about it. The new on the scene PD pulls her out of the cruiser and apologized repeatedly for the other sackOshit and let's her roll out no stop sign ticket. She also told me she was fully stopped as she was waiting on another car to clear the intersection. She didn't get any names. I'm gonna go have a chat with the Chief about what training his officers have received on handling stops with law abiding citizens who legally carry.

All this in Westerville a block from our house. I'm fucking pissed all over again.

Oh wow.
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No on Issue 2. Unless you don't think we need police, firefighters and teachers. Also, it opens the door for all other collective bargaining, and being a union member, this doesn't sit well with me. Cut the bureaucracy, not the front line.

Still wondering how when the bill was made to apply to police and firemen? Didn't the original bill exclude them? When did that change?:confused:

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I'm all for 2. I'm not a fan of unions and my plant will be closing in the next year in large part because of the union's shenanigans. I'm salary and I'm out of a job because of the wankers on the floor.

I see and understand the reason behind unions, but they way they operate is flawed. In my eyes, they either need to go, or need an extreme overhaul in the way the operate. As it is right now, unions have only managed to cripple our heavy industries.

I don't think 2's passage will fix everything either, the entire system has flaws that need to be addressed.

In any case, I will be watching the results of this one closely.

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Link to a dispatch article on the two sides. Actually has good information from both sides.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/10/18/issue-2-would-give-management-more-say.html

I see Pros being

1 more control over staffing levels for changing situations

2 better negotiating for benefits and pay

3 a fresh slate for new conditions to be allowed for

I see the cons being

1 a lot more trust in elected officials to do what's right vs selling out to supporters

2 possible loss of "good rules and regulations" which are important for people to do their jobs right

In the end I think the bill is needed to clean out the old agreements and allow what IS working to become law, not just a agreement.

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I'm all for 2. I'm not a fan of unions and my plant will be closing in the next year in large part because of the union's shenanigans. I'm salary and I'm out of a job because of the wankers on the floor.

I see and understand the reason behind unions, but they way they operate is flawed. In my eyes, they either need to go, or need an extreme overhaul in the way the operate. As it is right now, unions have only managed to cripple our heavy industries.

I don't think 2's passage will fix everything either, the entire system has flaws that need to be addressed.

In any case, I will be watching the results of this one closely.

how much more then "those wankers on the floor do you make" "what do you do vs said wankers?"

Im betting that unions protect workers from people just like you. People who sit in their offices staring at the walls who think that the evil workers on the floor that make the product are worthless.

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how much more then "those wankers on the floor do you make" "what do you do vs said wankers?"

Im betting that unions protect workers from people just like you. People who sit in their offices staring at the walls who think that the evil workers on the floor that make the product are worthless.

Right, and poeple in unions think office workers, "sit in their offices staring at the walls." :nono: Without all that "wall staring" there would be no jobs for the union to squabble about.

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We have a gentlemen who sweeps metal chips off machines. He makes over $75k/year. He makes much more than I do.

On average most of the old guys here (the only ones left because the layoffs have been by seniority) make about $30/hr. Plus they get time and 1/2 OT. I don't make that much if you divide my salary up to hourly. Nor do I get time +1/2.

And I don't sit at my desk all day. I'm a test engineer, and I do all labor on my tests in the lab. This includes heavy lifting, working with hazardous chemicals, and working at heights up to 90' above the floor. Not work for a patsy.

What I do isn't directly affected by our union employees, and I will state for the record that we have many good workers. But if there is something that I do need from them, the union's rules step in the way and prevent me from getting my job done. I take the blame for that. If anything, I need a union to protect me from our union!

Edited by wantahertzdonut
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Speaking of union rules, I once got yelled at for moving a bookshelf to get to the outlet and cat5 jack. Apparently that's a union protected task, and it was a huge deal that I didn't contact the responsible department and have them do it. It would've had to of been scheduled and at least for a day or two out. All I needed to do was plug in a computer. LOL. Obviously not all unions are created equal. I just thought this was a funny story to share.

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Speaking of union rules, I once got yelled at for moving a bookshelf to get to the outlet and cat5 jack. Apparently that's a union protected task, and it was a huge deal that I didn't contact the responsible department and have them do it. It would've had to of been scheduled and at least for a day or two out. All I needed to do was plug in a computer. LOL. Obviously not all unions are created equal. I just thought this was a funny story to share.

Lots of stories like this :nono:

One of my college professors was giving a speech at a UAW factory. He brought some handouts to pass out to people. When he was walking thought factory he caused a stir, because his handouts were in a cardboard box. If they were in a briefcase or some other container it would have been a non issue. But a cardboard box is protected and they wanted him to schedule a material handler to move about 3lbs of paper.

This may be the exception, but this shit shapes the public perception of unions.

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