Guns, Buying & Selling

[Howabusa]

I'm wondering about a couple different things when it comes to buying & selling guns. I know from reading it on here & other sites that Ohio doesn't have gun registration. But, I just bought a Mossberg Tactical 22 at Buckeye Outdoors & had to fill out a form with my personal info. Is that only so that they can do a background check & then keep the form for their records?

The other question is that I just sold my WASR-10 to someone on here. This gun was bought by my brother years ago at Vance & then I bought it from him. If this gun should be used in a crime and they try to trace ownership will it come up as being his gun. Kinda the same question, LOL.

[Steve Butters]

I'm wondering about a couple different things when it comes to buying & selling guns. I know from reading it on here & other sites that Ohio doesn't have gun registration. But, I just bought a Mossberg Tactical 22 at Buckeye Outdoors & had to fill out a form with my personal info. Is that only so that they can do a background check & then keep the form for their records?

The other question is that I just sold my WASR-10 to someone on here. This gun was bought by my brother years ago at Vance & then I bought it from him. If this gun should be used in a crime and they try to trace ownership will it come up as being his gun. Kinda the same question, LOL.

Those papers are for a background check only. If a crime was committed with the gun it wont trace back to you or your brother because it was never registered. The only way they could find it is to track the gun to the store it was sold and check that stores forms. In other words - dont worry about it.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Steve Butters
corrected

[Howabusa]

Those papers are for a background check only. Nothing that ties you to the gun. If a crime was committed with the gun it wont trace back to you or your brother because it was never registered. The only way they could find it is to find every store that sold one, and check all those stores receipts until they managed to dig up the receipt that matches the serial number. In other words - dont worry about it.

Thanks, good to know!

[Tpoppa]

Not so sure about that. The serial number is on the form and is called intp the ATF, correct?

Years ago...I sold a gun that I bought new. Years later it turned up in a school. I only know this because I was contacted by a lawyer over it.

[Steve Butters]

Not so sure about that. The serial number is on the form and is called intp the ATF, correct?

the serial number is on the form - but its not called into the ATF

Edited October 23, 2011 by Steve Butters
corrected

[Howabusa]

Hmmm? Now I'm confused. My brother was worried since he was the one that bought the Wasr from Vance!

Edited October 23, 2011 by Howabusa

[Steve Butters]

just checked and found this

It is important to consider the FFL's record keeping requirements and their implications on the gun purchaser's privacy. When purchasing a firearm from an FFL, a Form 4473 (also known as the "Yellow Form"), as required by the ATF. The dealer must also record the sale in his transaction log. Form 4473 contains the name, address, NICS background check transaction number, serial number and model of the firearm, and a short federal affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law.

apparently the serial number is on the form - ive bought 4 firearms at gander and buckeye this year and ive never filled it out and they never called it in - they must fill that part out after i had left

it says they keep the form for 20 years.

so theres no registry but they can contact the manufacturer to find out where that gun was sold, then contact the store and have the store search their 4473's to find the person who purchased it. so i suppose for the first 20 years it can be tracked, but theres no actual registration database where they can look up a name and see what guns everybody owns

so if he bought it less than 20 years ago, i suppose they could manage to find him if it was important enough....but like i said before - i still wouldnt worry about it. theres thousands of guns sold and bought privately each year in ohio, they would still have to prove he committed the crime. if someone came to me and asked why my .17hmr turned up on a crime scene, i couldnt tell them anything - i sold it on armslist and didnt take down the guys info. thats the end unless they can tie me to the crime or something, which again, if he didnt do it then nothing to worry about it

Edited October 23, 2011 by Steve Butters

[Howabusa]

I was under the impression the serial # was only on the form for buckeyes records.

[Mykill]

^agreed

not correct.

like i said, maybe they tracked the serial number to the store it was sold at and that store happened to keep receipts and were able to look it up.

the serial number isnt on that form, and the call they make is an fbi background check - ive listened to them make the call and they never mention a serial number, nor have i ever seen it on the form

Then why do they write the serial number of the gun on the form

[Tpoppa]

Serial number is on the ATF form. #28

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

I am not positive that the serial number is shared with the ATF. However, because of my example above, I collect personal info any time I sell I gun that I purchased new.

[Steve Butters]

and yea i was wrong, just looked up the form

heres the back side

the gun info is down at the bottom - they have never filled that out while i was standing there, they might do them at the end of the day or something. once i get to the signature part on the back that was always the end of it

[Steve Butters]

apparently the serial number is on the form - ive bought 4 firearms at gander and buckeye this year and ive never filled it out and they never called it in - they must fill that part out after i had left

Then why do they write the serial number of the gun on the form

i already admitted i was mistaken. they have never written on the form while i was there, at buckeye or gander. like i said, they must have done it after i left or at the end of the day maybe

[speedytriple]

Like Tpoppa said I always write a record of sale up and have the person sign it.

[Beegreenstrings]

That form you fill out is nothing more than a background check. However, what a lot do not know. If you purchase more than one gun at a time (say 2) you just moved up on the ATF's list. If you purchase more than 2 at a time you really jump up on the list and become a "watched" purchaser (in other words dont do this, buy one today and come and get the other in two weeks).

But, yes people. When you purchase a gun and fill that paperwork out. That serial number does go on the paper work... Every time. Or your store will end up like Buckeye outdoors and be owned by someone else.

Now, for what some of you may not know. The ATF see's that paperwork for your background check. Do they really want to keep that paperwork and serial number on file? Not really. So they make the seller or store do it. Part of having a FFL. The bad for the dealer is. It is heavily critiqued. Must be on file at all times and be ready for inspection at all times. Must be properly kept up on or they will pull your FFL and have the right to do so at any time they feel it necessary do to your said poor record keeping abilities.

So do they keep a record of every firearm you have purchased (legally) you better believe they do! Do they always have it readily available to them. Yep, in most cases they can have the list of "most" every gun you have purchased in a matter of hours.

What I was told comes up when they want to check you is this.

ATF pulls your records to see. Billybob gun nut, has purchased 4 guns this year. 1 rifle at buckeye outdoors. 1 handgun from woodbury oudoors. 2 shotguns from T&K guns and archery.

Then if they really have a urgency to know exactly what you got. They will call each individual dealer and say we need the records for 2010 and 2011 for billybob gun nut.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Beegreenstrings

[speedytriple]

That's why you buy used from a private seller lol...

[Beegreenstrings]

and yea i was wrong, just looked up the form

heres the back side

the gun info is down at the bottom - they have never filled that out while i was standing there, they might do them at the end of the day or something. once i get to the signature part on the back that was always the end of it

T&K does it right in front of you before they ever call it in.

That's why you buy used from a private seller lol...

Most of us anyway

[8mmDale]

When you fill out the 4473 all the information about what you are buying is on the form. However, what you are buying does NOT get called into the FBI NICS system. Only what type of gun you are purchasing, long gun, hand gun or other.

I have to keep the 4473's pretty much forever, or 10 years after I give up my license. The only person who has access to those records after you fill it out is Law enforcement.

As far as multiples go, you only get flagged if you buy 2 or more hand guns within a 5 day period of time. Long guns and other are not tracked, and normally the ATF wont do anything with it unless you have given them a reason too.

[C-bus]

It's perfectly legal to sell arms in Ohio and there is no requirement to track who you sold it to. I've sold dozens of my personal collection and wrote one name down simply because it was my first sale. If it's "traced" to me (and we all know they keep that stuff on file), my response is "suck it, I sold it".

[bowdog]

When you fill out the 4473 all the information about what you are buying is on the form. However, what you are buying does NOT get called into the FBI NICS system. Only what type of gun you are purchasing, long gun, hand gun or other.

I have to keep the 4473's pretty much forever, or 10 years after I give up my license. The only person who has access to those records after you fill it out is Law enforcement.

As far as multiples go, you only get flagged if you buy 2 or more hand guns within a 5 day period of time. Long guns and other are not tracked, and normally the ATF wont do anything with it unless you have given them a reason too.

I would say if anyone on here knows this law for sure it is Dale!

[Steve Butters]

As far as multiples go, you only get flagged if you buy 2 or more hand guns within a 5 day period of time. Long guns and other are not tracked.

this makes no sense lol

they think 2 handguns is more suspicious than buying 2 AR's? idjit gubbament

[Beegreenstrings]

hunting type guns are not tracked... I.e. Shotgun.

AR's AK's any type of rifle like that, But they are considered Assualt or Military style weapons. They are not considered in the same class as a Remington 700.

[Steve Butters]

hunting type guns are not tracked... I.e. Shotgun.

AR's AK's any type of rifle like that, But they are considered Assualt or Military style weapons. They are not considered in the same class as a Remington 700.

gotcha. i assumed long gun covered everything other than a handgun

[Helmutt]

Like Tpoppa said I always write a record of sale up and have the person sign it.

^^^ This......always good to cover thy ass - AND I'd make the buyer sign/date it in front of a witness or even a notary? Never "sold" any firearms......usually traded this n that

[Steve Butters]

^^^ This......always good to cover thy ass - AND I'd make the buyer sign/date it in front of a witness or even a notary? Never "sold" any firearms......usually traded this n that

if you went through all that - wouldnt even buy a firearm from you..waste my time making me go to a notary etc...no thanks.

also wont let anyone photocopy my ID when i buy from them, that seems stupid

if they want to see my ID, sure.

if they want to write down my name and address and date i bought it, ok whatever.

but thats as far as it goes

personally, i dont even bother with the stuff...i check ID, as long as its an ohio ID and theyre of age then its sold. if it turns up somewhere it shouldnt it isnt my problem because i sold it to someone else.

[Tpoppa]

I generally won't sell guns anymore that are in my name. If I do, I would do it on consignment through an FFL dealer and have them process the paperwork.