CoolWhip Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 21 years cannot be the maximum sentence. Someone please tell me I am missing something here. "Breivik admits to the bombing of Oslo's government district that killed eight people and a subsequent shooting massacre at a Labor Party youth camp that left 69 people dead, most of them teenagers. He claims the attacks were "necessary" and that the victims had betrayed Norway by embracing immigration. If found guilty, Breivik would face 21 years in prison, though he can be held longer if deemed a danger to society. If declared insane, he would be committed to compulsory psychiatric care."http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/04/25/confessed-norway-killer-says-insane-diagnosis-based-on-fabrications/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namtugeoj Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 when this happened they reported a piece on the type of prisons over there. They are resorts with higher walls. Ill see if i can find the article. It really is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yep, they have pools, and everything. Saw it on Worlds Toughest Prisons, or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Idk how things work.over there, but this looks premeditated, so i.dont think he would.be able.to plead insanity? As for.only 21years thats justice.for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFM Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 They were students and socialists though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolWhip Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 They were students and socialists though.Socialists are people too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCGRAW Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 There is a comedian named Eddie Izzard and he does an awesome job of putting this into perspective. I can't access the transcript at work but it goes along these lines: "Pol pot killed. Million people, we can't even deal with that, if someone kills someone yo go to prison. You kill two people, you go to Texas, they hit you with a brick, three people, they look through a hospital window at you forever. Over that, we can't deal with it. Someone who's killed 1,000 people we're almost going, "Well done. You killed 1,000 people? You must get up very early in the morning. I can't even get down to the gym!" Pol Pot they put on house arrest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 This just in: Other countries have completely different ways of dealing with the incarceration and rehabilitation of inmates than the US.when this happened they reported a piece on the type of prisons over there. They are resorts with higher walls. Ill see if i can find the article. It really is a joke.You know what the bigger joke is? The US has 10 PERCENT of the population, 30 MILLION people, currently behind bars in a prison system that's being used as a profit generator instead of a rehabilitation area. Maybe Norway's on to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCGRAW Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 This just in: Other countries have completely different ways of dealing with the incarceration and rehabilitation of inmates than the US. You know what the bigger joke is? The US has 10 PERCENT of the population, 30 MILLION people, currently behind bars in a prison system that's being used as a profit generator instead of a rehabilitation area. Maybe Norway's on to something. So wait a minute? I could kill off all the people that get on my nerves, those pesky people in traffic and those people who ride too close to me, the annoying cashier and the people who ask me stupid questions and be sent to a resort? .... The U.S. Is doing this all wrong! We could house all the homeless people who want to kill someone for just fractions on the dollar! Take on their problems, alcoholism, medical bills, ect AND they wouldn't have to live on the streets anymore! Toss in a new car for everyone drives something older than 2004 and free insurance and gasoline, we got plenty! Prison is a punishment, and if you've never worked around prisoners, you don't have clue-one what it would take to rehabilitate some of those people as opposed to just leaving them in there for the safety of other, law-abiding, people. I find it insulting to know that there are people in the U.S. that believe prisoners who are convicted, per confession, to murders of other people, to forcibly take away their option to live a life, should be treated better. What we run into in the U.S. is trying to treat everyone fairly, not taking away someone’s right to live a life but altering it so that their life can not directly negatively effect other people's lives. A lot of those people I'll admit can be products of their environment, to include friends, family, social status, and schooling. Some people wise-up in prison and realize they need to behave, some get second chances and some don't. Some people you'll hear talk about how they've changed for the better, found jesus and they now understand that they need to get their life together, get out of prison because their little child doesn't deserve a father that's in jail, they need to be their for their family. They get paroled. They kill someone, rob a place, or do any number of stupid acts within a week of being released and they're right back in jail, talking about how it'll be different next time... Every country is doing what it can to the best of it's ability given it's circumstances. Look at the overall demographics of a place before you try to compare apples to oranges and make sure the FACTS don't get blurred with your personal feelings or opinions, or what CNN or FOX 'news' feelings or opinions are on the subject matter. What works for Norway, China, Russia, Africa, isn't necessarily good for the U.S., or to go further Ohio, Michigan, California, Texas, ect. If you have a better plan, lay it out on paper, and present it, if you're not willing to make the effort to fix what you see is a problem but only take the road of 'bitch & moan until someone else does something' based on your 'ideas', you're no less of a problem than everyone else who answers the question of 'what's corrupt about government?' with 'you know, things and stuff and people, and religion and things, and stuff, I don't really wanna talk about it'. To take on something like this subject with surface thought of 'well we should do it like them' I just feel is really naive, not an attack against you personally Cheech, it was just the mentality that sets me off. /rant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 as country singer, tim mcgraw, you should write songs about the penal systems around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 First off, I never insinuated that the US should model after the Norwegian prison system. Our two cultures are radically different, and what works over there won't necessarily work here and vice versa.What I am commenting on is the monumental stupidity of someone in the United States, with it's culture of incarceration, calling the Norwegian system, with it's culture of rehabilitation, a joke. I don't need to work around prisoners to know the rates of non-violent drug offenders, forced into prisons by mandatory minimum sentencing while the legislators creating such laws cash checks from the private prison industry so they can appear "tough on crime".Regarding this: I find it insulting to know that there are people in the U.S. that believe prisoners who are convicted, per confession, to murders of other people, to forcibly take away their option to live a life, should be treated better.I find it equally insulting to know that there are prisoners that signed "confessions" (you can read these for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession#Coerced_false_confessions) that were coerced either by physical force or other means, simply to bring closure to the case. Our justice system was designed to keep innocent people out of jail and to mete out punishments fitting the crime, not to put guilty people in jail, or to throw mandatory sentences around (this should be good for starters, 55 years in jail for dealing $350 worth of pot), and any perversion of that is a huge stain on our society as a country.I see you're using the ol' "if you have a better idea..." defense. As a matter of fact, I do, and it one that just so happens to be supported by a plurality of Americans. Legalize marijuana and pull back 90% of the powers and regulations given during the war on drugs. No more civil forfeiture, no more "States vs. 17,000 in US Currency", no more stop-and-frisks, no more overflights of herbicides over sovereign nations (killing legitimate crops in the process), payoffs and dealings with international drug organizations (the Contras come to mind), and, best of all, the amount of arrests and activity through the legal system goes down by roughly 1.5 MILLION arrests per YEAR, with 500,000 of them going to prison. I'd imagine that those number encapsulate all drugs, so just imagine if you could cut that number in half. While we're on the subject of dumbass laws, you could give the Lacey Act a look, just ask this person who's crime was importing lobster tails in a clear plastic container instead of a cardboard container, in violation of a Honduran statute that the Honduran government ITSELF said in a brief to the court that is out-of-date and no longer enforced. 8 years for 3 members of the action, 2 years for another.I can go on and on, really. All I'm saying is you should take a damn good look at yourself as a country and what's happening inside of your own borders before you hate on another country's culture and morality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 the recidivism rate in norway is about 20%. ours is about 50%.apparently they are doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) You know what the bigger joke is? The US has 10 PERCENT of the population, 30 MILLION people, currently behind bars in a prison system that's being used as a profit generator instead of a rehabilitation area. Maybe Norway's on to something.lol yup... and how many of those people are in there for non violent victimless crimes? land of the free indeed. Edited April 25, 2012 by John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiggy74 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 They are scrambling for ways to prove that he's insane, which is their only chance of keeping him locked up for life. It ain't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCGRAW Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I see you're using the ol' "if you have a better idea..." defense. As a matter of fact, I do, and it one that just so happens to be supported by a plurality of Americans. Legalize marijuana and pull back 90% of the powers and regulations given during the war on drugs. No more civil forfeiture, ... My argument is concerning murders (OP) you came up with a way to legalize drugs and cut back on non-violent criminals in prisons, we're obviously on two different pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 My argument is concerning murders (OP) you came up with a way to legalize drugs and cut back on non-violent criminals in prisons, we're obviously on two different pages. No, the argument that you presented to me was regarding the prison system and the treatment of prisoners, based on your experiences. Don't move the goalposts on me, bubby.Don't hate me because I'm beautiful, hate me because I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 They are scrambling for ways to prove that he's insane, which is their only chance of keeping him locked up for life. It ain't going to happen.I wouldn't say that. If the Court finds that he's mentally capable of standing trial and found guilty (which is pretty much a certainty), then, according to what I read since I'm not a Norwegian law expert, it would more than likely be possible to stack charges to ensure that he stays in jail for the rest of his life. From what I understand, apparently that's not done very often in Norway, but I think they understand just fine what kind of person they are dealing with and the impact to society if this guy ever got back out again.And if they do find that he's cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs, then he's going to get the treatment that he needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMCGRAW Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 No, the argument that you presented to me was regarding the prison system and the treatment of prisoners, based on your experiences. Don't move the goalposts on me, bubby.Don't hate me because I'm beautiful, hate me because I'm right.Haha!Well it was meant to be specifically of those people who have been in favor of treating murders with more humane systems (swimming pools, ect) in hopes that it will be a better way to rehabilitate them, and make them productive members of society. I agree the non-violent crime thing we have is out of control, but I think you sign a confession that you killed someone, you're also agreeing to take on the accountability that comes with that signature of admitting guilt.As far as the War on XYZ, a lot of times I think it's just a stepping stone for further progression of widdling away the rights of people, as conspiracy minded as that sounds...........................................................................................1. Whatever goes upon 2 legs is an enemy. - The pigs start dealing with humans and end up walking on 2 legs.2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. - The pigs end up thinking any animal who walks on four legs or has wings in inferior.3. No animal shall wear clothes. - The pigs all end up wearing clothes.4. No animal shall sleep in a bed. - Squealer changes this to 'No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets' because they decided to sleep on the humans beds.5. No animal shall drink alcohol. - Squealer changes this to 'No animal shall drink alcohol to excess' and end up getting drunk often.6. No animal shall kill any other animal.- Squealer changes this to 'No animal shall kill any other animal without cause'. Napoleon sentences anyone who was thought to be plotting against him (though he has no evidence) to death. Boxer is sent off to be killed and turned into glue when he breaks a leg.7. All animals are equal. - Squealer changes this to 'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others'. It is very obvious that the pigs come out on top and order everyone around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) but I think you sign a confession that you killed someone, you're also agreeing to take on the accountability that comes with that signature of admitting guilt.what if you are coerced and bullied into it?http://www.wbur.org/2011/12/07/worcester-coerced-confession-ithey dont seem to care about finding the truth or finding the guilty party. only about getting the case closed and off their books. Edited April 25, 2012 by John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Haha!Well it was meant to be specifically of those people who have been in favor of treating murders with more humane systems (swimming pools, ect) in hopes that it will be a better way to rehabilitate them, and make them productive members of society. I agree the non-violent crime thing we have is out of control, but I think you sign a confession that you killed someone, you're also agreeing to take on the accountability that comes with that signature of admitting guilt.Fine. To fix one side means you should fix the other, and have any police officer or prosecutor engaging in misconduct to elicit that confession or intentionally ignoring evidence to the contrary stripped of their qualified immunity and prosecuted for felony perjury with mandatory minimum sentences.As far as the War on XYZ, a lot of times I think it's just a stepping stone for further progression of widdling away the rights of people, as conspiracy minded as that sounds.No arguments here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 ehhh, calling bullshit. There are two types of people in prison. Those that commit violent offenses and cannot be out in the general public. And those that repeatedly commit general offenses, despite being told not to. There are lots of chances to avoid prison. Those that are there didn't get the message. There are generally no minor offenses in prison. Those that are there belong there. Minor crimes, even when repeated, simply go to the county work house for a short stay.I understand the problems with the three strike felony thing, corruption, etc. And if we don't like it, we should get rid of it. Majority rules, even when laws are made by the minority. If not, we have much greater problems in our society than who gets to go to jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Oh' date=' really? [url']http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#Drugs There are lots of chances to avoid prison. Those that are there didn't get the message.did you not read this? From.what i.can tell from your link it looks like alot of drug related parole offenses.... Which was covered by his previous statement... Those people obviously did not get.the message... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 His statement said they deserved to be there. I disagree' date=' and so does a giant pile of the population. Now, whether or not Tom agrees/disagrees is up in the air, but I could give a fuck what your opinion is.[/quote']So we should set all the non violent non serious offenders free? Thats a great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exarch Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Well' date=' let's see.... if you're not violent and a non-serious offender... should you be in prison?[/quote']Considering normal people dont repeatedly break a law that would land them in prison...And what constitute a serious/non serious.offender.in your book? Also not all violent crimes are serious, and not all serious crimes are violent, but hey a crime is a crime, fuck up and serve.the time DV is a 'serious crime' I think DV is a joke in most cases, cuz even a tiny shove is considered DV and will get your ass in ALOT of trouble. and dont argue that a tiny shove cannot get you a DV.charge, (im talking a shove that doesnt even move the other person, yes that small) cuz it can. Even if.the.other person doesnt want to press charges or doesnt even.call the cops.themselves your ass is grass.Now murder is normally a serious charge, now used in self defense its not a serious charge? See where im getting at, you can get locked up for a tiny shove or set free for a murder. So what REALLY constitutes a serious or non serious charge? The law is the law (again I beleive in capital punishment, but that will never ever happen) and if you break it tough shit, dont expect my pitty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 God you're dumb.+1Exarch do you stunt, race mustangs, flap your arms while riding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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