Knife laws in Ohio - a question that I need a polcie officer or lawyer to to answer..

[Scruit]

..Or at least someone who can connect the does using ORC...

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923

ORC2923.11 is the concealed weapons law. The only type of knife I see listed as illegal to carry in the street is a "Ballistic Knife". ORC2923.11 (J) and (K)(1).

Switchblades etc fall under ORC2923.20 that says you cannot "Manufacture, possess for sale, sell, or furnish to any person other than a law enforcement agency for authorized use in police work". This covers gravity knives, switchblades, springblades etc. (Although meijer sells spring-opened camping knives...?)

But this just covers selling or buying, furnishing etc. Not posession.

That means that carrying a knife in and of itself is not illegal, unless it falls under ORC2923.11(A) which says: "“Deadly weapon” means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon."

So I also see that things like the ASP baton are not covered explicitly - does that mean it's officer/prosecutor/judge/jury discretion on what constitutes a deadly weapon? (I get it... The guy who got ventilated a couple months ago for raising up an electrical conduit bender at a cop deserved it)

If it is just human discretion as to what is a deadly weapon and what is not then that's cool - although it would be cool to get examples from officer/lawyers on what kind of things were taken from people because they were considered deadly weapons. I knwo the list is not all-inclusive... Swords are not listed but I don't doubt for a second it is considered a deadly weapon. But what ahout a 3-d or 4-d maglite? Didn't a bunch of police depts ban carrying them (in favor of stigner streamlights etc) for fear that smacking someone over the head with it is considered deadly force?

One sheriff's deputy showed me how to make a set of nunchaku in two pieces (quick disconnect chain) that can be quickly assembled into a weapon, but when separated is just two sticks with a half-chain on one end, supposedly making it perfectly legal... Any officers agree with that assessment?

I train bo fighting and stick fighting and a pair of ASP batons would be perfect for stick fighting - but would they be legal to carry? or could they be modified to be legal (ie not be deadly). A bo would be pretty inconvenient to carry around!

Or is the distinction based upon if the item has any reasonable purpose other than a weapon? A maglite can easily be deadly, but it's a flashlight too. A set of nunchaku stored disconnected has no immediately obvious non-weapon purpose...

IB someone suggests tying a pair of maglites together...

Edited August 8, 2012 by Scruit

[jblosser]

the way i understand it:

if your knife is a "weapon", it's illegal.

if your knife is a "tool", it's legal. cut some packing tape with it, leave residue on blade, presto!, it's a "tool" ("...see? i use it to open boxes and stuff, look-eee at the tape residue..." )

[KZ900]

...

Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900

[2talltim]

the way i understand it:

if your knife is a "weapon", it's illegal.

if your knife is a "tool", it's legal. cut some packing tape with it, leave residue on blade, presto!, it's a "tool" ("...see? i use it to open boxes and stuff, look-eee at the tape residue..." )

what if your using it as a tool for protection?

[scottie.harris]

I had a very similar thread awhile back, it still has some useful information http://www.ohioriders.net/showthread.php?t=87792 Although mine pertained to fixed blades, but it covered generally all styles.

[Scruit]

the way i understand it:

if your knife is a "weapon", it's illegal.

if your knife is a "tool", it's legal. cut some packing tape with it, leave residue on blade, presto!, it's a "tool" ("...see? i use it to open boxes and stuff, look-eee at the tape residue..." )

That explains why truckers can carry "Tire checkers" (basically small baseball bats that they hit the truck tires with to "check the tire pressure". Can also incidentally be used to check the pressure in a road-rager's skull using pretty much the same measurement technique.

So, having two ends of nunchaku that you can clip together is likely going to be considered a weapon because they two ends have no discernible non-weapon purpose... Well, if they ends DO have a non-weapon purpose, such as... one of then have have a notch cut in it to deflect the fanbelt and the other can have measurement markings in it. It's a home-made tool used to drivebelt tension. Even better if they are stored in a place next to a spare new drivebelt and a wrecnh for swapping the drivebelt out... The chain loop is to hang them up in the garage, but as it happens I've been having problems with my drivebelt so I'm carrying it in the car. Incidentally, though, the loops can be intertwined to produce something that works like nunchaku and can be used in a pinch.

(Until I do this, and the prosecutor finds this post and does me for intent)

Heck, who needs nunchaku. I have elbows. For realz, bro - if the US army dropped their guns and threw elbows instead there's be a McDonalds on every street in Iraq and a Starbucks on every street in Afghanistan by now...

[jblosser]

nvm

[Scruit]

If you have a ccw why not just carry a gun?

I take my son to school every day, and at his age I have to walk him into / out of the building. = no CCW. Also my company has a strict no-guns policy that I abide by 100%.

[imprez55]

I will maybe find it later, but I use the 2 1/2 inch rule. A blade below that is legally allowed to be carried into most buildings and is considered a tool. Beyond that it could be considered a weapon, and beyond 6 inches I don't believe you can carry. I have had school police use the 2 1/2 inch rule (palm of your hand) before when I have been stopped and not a single person all through high school and college has made a remark.

[KZ900]

...

Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900

[NinjaNick]

I'd ask a lawyer because most cops don't know many laws. Funny but true.

[jblosser]

length of knife has nothing to do with anything in Ohio, legal-wise.

[imprez55]

length of knife has nothing to do with anything in Ohio, legal-wise.

I stand corrected. It is not the ORC but the United States Code, Title 18 section 930.

"(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length."

(near the end of the source)

-Edit- Actually, I never stated ORC in my original post (although that is where I though it was). So since I do not see anywhere in Ohio law that this is disputed or revised, it should stand that this is a the reigning law.

Edited August 8, 2012 by imprez55

[jporter12]

length of knife has nothing to do with anything in Ohio, legal-wise.

So we're back to the tape residue...

[Scruit]

I stand corrected. It is not the ORC but the United States Code, Title 18 section 930.

"(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length."

(near the end of the source)

-Edit- Actually, I never stated ORC in my original post (although that is where I though it was). So since I do not see anywhere in Ohio law that this is disputed or revised, it should stand that this is a the reigning law.

So my leatherman with a 4" blade is illegal?

[KZ900]

...

Edited November 13, 2012 by KZ900

[Scruit]

It is a philosophical question. I looked up the CC laws in response to another thread and the distinction jumped out at me this time, despite me reading those laws a million times over.

The only place you can comfortably conceal/carry nunchaku of any design would be in a car, and driving is nearly always a better defense than getting out and fighting (both in legal and in practical terms).

Edited August 8, 2012 by Scruit

[redkow97]

A lawyer will argue the facts in a manner that suits their client's position.

If you're carrying the 4" blade on the leatherman, and I'm prosecuting you, then it's obviously a weapon.

If you're carrying the 4" blade and I'm your defense attorney, then it's obviously a tool that was necessary for you to have on you. Furthermore, your intent was to carry a tool and not a weapon. Etc.

The law is rarely cut and dry, or we wouldn't need trials (or attorneys for that matter).

As general advice though, avoid carrying a blade that is larger than 2.5 inches, if that's what the statute says. If the ORC doesn't define "deadly weapon" or set a length on a blade that is capable of inflicting deadly force, then the US code would certainly be persuasive authority on the subject.

The answer to most questions like this is "use your head."

[Tomcat0403]

From the officers that I know and the knife specialty shop i buy from, you can carry any size knife as long as it is not concealed. Must be under 4" (i think) if it is concealed. Clipped to your pants is not concealed. I have carried large folders over 4" everyday since I turned 18, to class, work, public, sporting events, etc. common sense prevails in carrying it into courts, other gov't buildings. if you refer to it as a tool it is not an issue. I have been pulled over with it before and the cop barley blinked an eye when i informed him.

[Scruit]

I've carried a leartherman for 20 years and it's been a complete non-issue (except for the time I forgot I had it on my belt and arrived at airport security)

[Gixxus Christ!]

I used to keep a thera-band in my car when I lived in the hood. It's basically a bar of rubber 10" long and 1.5" diameter used for physical therapy. It's intended use is to grip and twist to strengthen your wrists.......it also has the sane effect as a blackjack when you stroke it across someone's jaw. Get one if those, claim carpal tunnel if the cops ask.

[BDBGoalie]

My EDC kit consists of a flashlight, a knife, and my pistol.

Flashlight is good for target acquisition and dazing targets, and it can be carried anywhere.

Knife is a 3" spring assist with a deep carry clip. Good as a tool or defensive weapon and I carry it everywhere.

Pistol is a .45 and puts big holes in people. I carry everywhere I can but our wonderful state's laws limit things.

Overall the kit is unobtrusive and gives you a option in most situations, even with only the light. I've never had any problems carrying any of it, save the pistol in CPZ's.

[BDBGoalie]

On the same topic, anyone know if it legal to carry a folding karambit?

Seems like it would be really hard to justify them as a tool rather than a weapon.

[jblosser]

On the same topic, anyone know if it legal to carry a folding karambit?

Seems like it would be really hard to justify them as a tool rather than a weapon.

According to their website: "...reknown multi-use utility edged tool..." (sic) it's a tool.

No problemo.

ianal.

[jblosser]

Johnny's easy-to-understand guide to the law:

* Concealed carry of deadly weapons in Ohio is illegal (prohibition cited at ORC 2923.12(A)(1), upheld by Klein.

* As defined by Ohio Law (ORC 2923.11(A), a "deadly weapon" is defined as "...any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death". A half-inch blade on a pen knife can inflict death.

* Your Concealed Handgun License is an exemption to the 2923.12(A)(1) statute cited above, but it applies only to handguns - not shotguns, rifles, knives, or any other lethal object.

* There are 3 affirmative defenses (at 2923.12 ©(1)(a) available to you if you've been arrested, charged, and prosecuted with carrying a concealed weapon, to wit:

*** the weapon is carried for defensive purposes at work or going to/from work, and the work is such that a prudent person would go so armed

*** the weapon is carried for defensive purposes while engaged in a lawful activity and the carrier has reasonable cause to fear criminal attack upon him/herself or a family member such as would justify a prudent person going armed

*** the weapon is carried inside of your house

* the 3 defenses above are what existed prior to Ohio's handgun licensing, and were largely unsatisfactory and essentially worthless.